ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing

[Cmdr Andrew Johnson]

Wow, just caught up on this thread. For what it is worth my comments on a few items.

FC full of Painite - I knew the nerf was coming from the beginning of last week having caught up on the forums and youtube streams. Didn’t know how bad it would be so sold all my stored Painite at between 800k and 915k. Cancelled all buy orders by last Wednesday.

Happy with the mining balance first followed by the others, gives me an idea on what FDev are trying to achieve. Where as if they had started with combat first everyone would be complaining that mining was still over powered and combat levels need to go higher.

Not happy that the Pulse Wave or lack of correct hotspot cores bugs was not addressed before the balancing.

Cores I do find tend to give me around 12t - 14t of goodies if I blow them up at the right level.

I hope that @Arthur Tolmie will give us some feedback this week on the bugs and more importantly on how they feel the mining balance is going.

Whilst the markets are settling in I have brought a Krait mk2 and fitted it out for Thargoid scout battles to try something new. Next it will be to try and get some Guardian weapons to take on the bigger Interceptors.

Just my thoughts on a few comments in this thread without cutting and pasting everywhere. Fly safe Cmdrs

 

[limpetdwarf]

The next piece is that I have never mined inside the bubble so maybe I found more combination rocks because I had no competition since as I understand it, events in all modes have some impact on people in different modes.
[...]
I don't remember the Drill indication speeding up and slowing down.

I was told that mining doesn't deplete the resources. Why would events (other than mining) have an impact on how much can be mined at a particular place? Unless there's a supernova or some kind of collision or something, the asteroids shouldn't be affected. (Realistically, we would have automated mining ships that swallow a bunch of whole asteroids, melt them down and spit out the unwanted components --- something like that would affect the asteroids ... The current methods are for hobby miners who do it for the fun of it ...)

The display with the blue bars moves at uneven speeds, going faster and slower all the time. Maybe it doesn't do that on other platforms than xbox? It makes subsurface mining a game of luck because it's only luck whether you let go of the trigger at the right moment or not. Maybe there is a way to tell how/when the speed changes; if there is one, I don't know it. Hence my question if it's a matter of skill ...

 

[Husanak]

From a core, I get maybe 3--4 deposits and that's it. You must be extremly lucky. I've been going about to many so-called hotspots even before someone noticed that the PWS scanner got broken, and every place had only very few asteroids, usually no cores and only very few asteroids with subsurface deposits.

I can be 100% sure that I will not find any of the mineral indicated by the hotspot other than in trace amounts. It took me about 6 hours to mine 10t of Painite for an engineer.

So I can assure you that mining is not a way to make money. Why are you getting different results?

Are you making sure to play the charge laying mini game ?

First I noticed you need a maneuverable ship... turns out the AspX I was using is almost the perfect pure core miner. I loaded it with a launcher and a couple Abrasion blasters. (took me a couple runs to figure out the best hard point placement for the blasters. It helps a ton if there situated properly left and right so you don't have to take multiple shots and waste time) Turn was great... I unlocked dirty drag a week or so back and it makes a difference but even un engineered the AspX was great. I'm using a python now with dirty drag and its not quite as good as the AspX but with some more room to load the nice to haves like a class 6 fuel scoop.

My point being you need to have good maneuverability so you can place the charges properly. I normally only need 4 charges to pop a rock, and sometimes only 3. I have found the key is to get a medium charge on top or on one side of a rock, then put another medium charge on the opposite side. Which involves spinning around the rock with your thrusters. Once you have those laid space a couple low charges in between... and normally I hit a nice blue line at that point. IME if you can hit a nice double blue line on the mini game before you detonate, you should get 10-12 released pretty consistent (and I still swear I have seen a 16). And in general 7 or 8 deposits on the fragments. I know in the run I did last night in a Mosgravite site I collected basically exactly 16t per rock for 4 rocks in a row. It was a single Mosgravite hot spot and after 4 rocks I had 32 tons of MG, 16 of Serendbite and 16 of Alexandrite. I did manage to completely screw up a painite rock last night and I think it was the first rock I failed to blow up since my first day of core mining. Winning the game I find involves spacing your charges, setting the large charges first (and I mostly always go medium->low) there is almost always enough fissures to add an extra low charge if your short of the zone.

 

[limpetdwarf]

I really don't understand why they don't just make it so that pure dynamics regulate the balance over time: just keep collecting telemetry data to capture the highest level of player activity and automatically reduce this "peak income" by say 1 or 2 percent in a weekly cycle until another activity becomes more popular and the same thing happens. This would dynamically(!) normalise all activities over time, slowly and painlessly, while at the same time removing any responsibility from the devs.

The same should happen with the least popular activity, in the opposite direction of course. All it would take would be the introduction of a hidden normalisation factor for each activity that generates income. In this way, even the most unattractive trade goods could be brought into focus, while all "no brainers" will lose their attractiveness over time. Once such a system is in place, developers could sit back and relax, at least as far as balance of price developments is concerned.

This would be the most lazy and at the same time most efficient solution IMHO.

Think it through:

Shooting down one NPC to collect a bounty per week would have to pay the most because it takes the longest time. Or something like that; it doesn't matter what it is as long as it takes the longest ...

And what about activities that cost money?

 

[Pug]

Right. You'd just have to distribute your savings across multiple banks, or there would be other suitable ways to make sure that not all your belongings are lost when catastrophies happen.

I was told that carriers are invincible. Seriously? It's one of the things that need to be changed ...

And what about our own stations? I want to have my own system and my station in it, at least one ... If some catastrophy happens, like Thargoids wiping it out, well, if mining was finally automated, I'd just have to set up some automated mining operations at multiple places. If one blows, up, I'd set up another one, and at the end of the day, I won't need to worry about my life savings because it's more money than I could spend anyway.
And how did you make that much money???

If it wasn't for the mining that was made dry, I'd still be doing passenger missions for about 2 million in 2--4 hours after a year if I was still playing. Boring ...

Maybe you misunderstood my time in game as opposed to real time. How can you hope to afford a system of your own and a space station when you can't amass a few billion in 6 years. I'm sure there are players who enjoyed using the exploit / not an exploit to get huge sums of money, I just played when I could.

I'm not sure this is the right game for you as it doesn't seem to make you very happy at all.

I like flying ships \o/ it makes me happy. I wish all the wee niggles were gone but hey ho.

I wonder who has the most amount of credits?
Pug
"Edit"
Didn't realise that you had been in the game for such a short time Limpet.
Your attention span and also your varied diatribe and vociferousness are truly exemplary.
cue - - - -

 

[CMDR Shuuichi Muraii]

I have never seen 16 pieces at once coming from an asteroid core or from a subsurface deposit. And how did you even manage to find any place that had any mineral worthwhile mining? I've wasted hours trying to find minerals at hotspots, even double ones, there were never any worthwhile.

Sorry this is a little late, I've been mining VO hotspots in pristine things and at best I've gotten 14 pieces. TBH I had to trawl the hotspot for a good 2 or 3 hours to get even 50t core mining but I'm with the other guy, I like core mining.

 

[limpetdwarf]

You're confusing things.
You think that means the game is supposed to be without any restrictions? It wouldn't be a game then.
It just means you can climb the progression ladder however you want (one of the reasons current balancing takes place is to make sure all approaches are more or less equal - not that mining is just super easy way to skip the progress), or avoid progressing it if you don't feel like it.
The fact that you just want to test ships isn't gameplay - you're just curious about rewards that come from playing the game. You could say that you want to test every weapon in Skyrim for example, so the game is broken, because it forces you to play it before you'll aquire all of them. It would be equally ridiculous.
If you don't like playing it, then you're going to be quickly bored when you'll have those easy rewards anyway, while others will have their game ruined by having too fast progress, without feeling of achievement.

Right, there wouldn't be a game if there weren't restrictions --- and I'm not saying there shouldn't be any.

I understand you want to force players to climb what you call a progression ladder because you think doing that is gameplay and that they should have to do it if you want to get ships. Why? I don't want to do that. I want to have ships to play the game. Climbing your ladder may (inevitably will) happen as a side effect when I play the game.

Take getting a Guardian FSD as an example. I did that, and parts of it were fun to do, and there are a lot of things I don't like about it. I didn't do it to climb some ladder or to make some kind of progress. Where would I be progressing to? The end of the game? There is no end of the game. I did it because I wanted more jump range and I wanted to go on an expedition with my Beluga. Do you want me to wait a couple years until I might be able to afford the Beluga? I know I could have used another, cheaper ship, but I used the Beluga because I like travelling in style and because the Beluga has features that make it suited for exploration. I wish I could have taken passengers on the trip ... You want to take that away from me just because you have some idea about how players should play the game?

Another example: If I hadn't quit playing, I'd have gone for a Clipper and a Corvette (I was about to), and I like it that you have to get a rank to get those --- provided that the rank can be achieved with reasonable effort. It's because the Clipper is a pretty ship and I want to try it, and I want to see what a Corvette does in combat. It has nothing to do with your ladder. It would only get in the way if I had to play a couple years before I might be able to afford them, and considering that I can't make that kind of money anyway other than with mining, I'd never have tried. Since I don't have a way to make money anymore, I'd have to sell some ships to buy a Clipper or a Corvette, and that sucks because all the engineering was for nothing. You want to take the fun away from me, and that means I simply won't play because I don't want to torture myself. I don't consider torturing myself as fun or progress. If you like to torture and frustrate yourself, can still play ED and donate the money or leave it in your account. Noone forces you to spend it on ships.

I don't know about Skyrim and haven't tried it. Skyrim never said that the idea is to not force a particular way of playing upon the players, or did it?

In any case, the reasons for ED being broken, failing miserably and being in need of fixing don't have anything to do with how fast players can get their ships in the first place (though that is, of course, a factor that needs to be considered).

 

[limpetdwarf]

Are you making sure to play the charge laying mini game ?
[...]

Like I said, I have found maybe a handfull of cores in a year, so haven't had much chance to try it.

I don't understand what it is with the strong and medium and weak gaps. The documentation is totally confusing. Someone told me it doesn't matter, so I tried to get the indicator at the blue line. It doesn't seem to make much difference except that it means blowing up the asteroid doesn't fail completely.

The timeout on the charges is extremely annoying and should be removed. It doesn't make any sense to have a timeout like that. Nobody in their right would manufacture charges like that.

 

[Pug]

Sorry this is a little late, I've been mining VO hotspots in pristine things and at best I've gotten 14 pieces. TBH I had to trawl the hotspot for a good 2 or 3 hours to get even 50t core mining but I'm with the other guy, I like core mining.

The sound effects are very good.

 

[CMDR Shuuichi Muraii]

My point being you need to have good maneuverability so you can place the charges properly. I normally only need 4 charges to pop a rock, and sometimes only 3. I have found the key is to get a medium charge on top or on one side of a rock, then put another medium charge on the opposite side. Which involves spinning around the rock with your thrusters.

I honestly just throw a couple of highs until I get closer to the blue lines, then check the strength of the fissure I'm aiming for next and tailor to that. I've cracked an asteroid with only 2 charges and got optimal yield, probably 10-12 pieces before abrasion for another 8-10 pieces. Usually have something like 14-16t per core.

Fissure strength can be important. Hitting a low strength with high yield early on lowers the number of charges. also if you're one off the blue, gotta match fissure strength or you'll over/under do it.

Edit to add more info.

 

[limpetdwarf]

Maybe you misunderstood my time in game as opposed to real time. How can you hope to afford a system of your own and a space station when you can't amass a few billion in 6 years. I'm sure there are players who enjoyed using the exploit / not an exploit to get huge sums of money, I just played when I could.

I'm not sure this is the right game for you as it doesn't seem to make you very happy at all.

I like flying ships \o/ it makes me happy. I wish all the wee niggles were gone but hey ho.

I wonder who has the most amount of credits?
Pug
"Edit"
Didn't realise that you had been in the game for such a short time Limpet.
Your attention span and also your varied diatribe and vociferousness are truly exemplary.
cue - - - -

Affording and keeping a station or a system is something that would need to be figured out.

Everyone only plays when they can. How many years do you think does a player need to spend with ED before others aren't trying to ridicule him?

 

[CMDR Shuuichi Muraii]

The sound effects are very good.

I agree. Also I freak out when I'm too close and the charges go off lol

 

[Pug]

Right, there wouldn't be a game if there weren't restrictions --- and I'm not saying there shouldn't be any.

I understand you want to force players to climb what you call a progression ladder because you think doing that is gameplay and that they should have to do it if you want to get ships. Why? I don't want to do that. I want to have ships to play the game. Climbing your ladder may (inevitably will) happen as a side effect when I play the game.

Take getting a Guardian FSD as an example. I did that, and parts of it were fun to do, and there are a lot of things I don't like about it. I didn't do it to climb some ladder or to make some kind of progress. Where would I be progressing to? The end of the game? There is no end of the game. I did it because I wanted more jump range and I wanted to go on an expedition with my Beluga. Do you want me to wait a couple years until I might be able to afford the Beluga? I know I could have used another, cheaper ship, but I used the Beluga because I like travelling in style and because the Beluga has features that make it suited for exploration. I wish I could have taken passengers on the trip ... You want to take that away from me just because you have some idea about how players should play the game?

Another example: If I hadn't quit playing, I'd have gone for a Clipper and a Corvette (I was about to), and I like it that you have to get a rank to get those --- provided that the rank can be achieved with reasonable effort. It's because the Clipper is a pretty ship and I want to try it, and I want to see what a Corvette does in combat. It has nothing to do with your ladder. It would only get in the way if I had to play a couple years before I might be able to afford them, and considering that I can't make that kind of money anyway other than with mining, I'd never have tried. Since I don't have a way to make money anymore, I'd have to sell some ships to buy a Clipper or a Corvette, and that sucks because all the engineering was for nothing. You want to take the fun away from me, and that means I simply won't play because I don't want to torture myself. I don't consider torturing myself as fun or progress. If you like to torture and frustrate yourself, can still play ED and donate the money or leave it in your account. Noone forces you to spend it on ships.

I don't know about Skyrim and haven't tried it. Skyrim never said that the idea is to not force a particular way of playing upon the players, or did it?

In any case, the reasons for ED being broken, failing miserably and being in need of fixing don't have anything to do with how fast players can get their ships in the first place (though that is, of course, a factor that needs to be considered).

Maybe you 'and' Only you want this (see above) There may be a few others too, but this is ultimately a misguided conception and I wish you well LimpetDwarf.

 

[Pug]

Affording and keeping a station or a system is something that would need to be figured out.

Everyone only plays when they can. How many years do you think does a player need to spend with ED before others aren't trying to ridicule him?

Definitely no years, if you don't want answers! don't opine. o7 Cmdr.

 

[CMDR Davanix]

"Game Balancing" in other words nerfing, bringing mining down to combat level to add more grind rather than balancing both

 

[Gully Foyle]

I look forward to seeing how these changes play out.
I've been a staunch believer of the fact that the amount of credits you can earn right out of the gate nowadays is not healthy for a normal game progression.

Close the Pandora's Box of grey exploits and cheats will cry salt

 

[Gully Foyle]

"Game Balancing" in other words nerfing, bringing mining down to combat level to add more grind rather than balancing both

Triple the payouts for thargoids
Buff all shooty shooty by a third
Up all trade/passenger missions too
Open FD in Nova Scotia again.

Long Live Rock

 

[skananote]

Triple the payouts for thargoids
Buff all shooty shooty by a third
Up all trade/passenger missions too
Open FD in Nova Scotia again.

Long Live Rock

Don't know about FD in Nova Scotia but the rest is exactly what players wanted FIRST. Buff the poop income from other activities FIRST and kill mining later. For now we have nerf and nothing to replace it with. For some reason however pro-nerf activists here do not want to accept that nerfing mining was the wrong thing to start with... God only knows for how long it will stay like that. I don't believe FDev is capable of delivering on own promises...

 

[Pug]

"Game Balancing" in other words nerfing, bringing mining down to combat level to add more grind rather than balancing both

I was thinking about this today, I don't think that they will ever bring the possible accumulation of wealth p/hr Up to mining levels.

My own hopeful view is that they will bring some sense to the current system. It's not called 'Balancing' for nothing after all.

There are so may facets to change, it's their game I do hope they appreciate this.

I was pleasantly surprised that they had an AMA today and although it was vague in places and pinpoint in others (Bruce) it was a step forward to see live-ish feedback.
Pug

 

[F4fred]

Don't know about FD in Nova Scotia but the rest is exactly what players wanted FIRST. Buff the poop income from other activities FIRST and kill mining later. For now we have nerf and nothing to replace it with. For some reason however pro-nerf activists here do not want to accept that nerfing mining was the wrong thing to start with... God only knows for how long it will stay like that. I don't believe FDev is capable of delivering on own promises...

According to the info I have seen the combat buffs start next week. Have a little patience. Trading buffs have started already. Made 150m in under an hour and a half last night.