Game loses something by not forcing Open play

[EAGLE 5]

Safe solo flight may earn you a battlecruiser but if you are a poor player... mainly harmless lets say... it won't keep you from an embarrassing defeat by an Elite player in a Sidewinder when you take the plunge in open mode. It's called Elite Dangerous for a reason.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It's called Elite Dangerous for a reason.

.... and the reason has been explained many times: Dangerous is the lowest reputation rank that the Elite Federation of Pilots will consider a pilot for limited membership.

 

[Jockey79]

If we're getting into you and me tango here I could say i'm playing the same game as you're. And if you allowed me to destroy in 5 minutes your 1 hour of trading it's as much your fault as mine. If you want pure PVE experience go/join/back/to and do not force everyone else to share the same universe with you because if you do there is no one really to blame.

If you want your PvP only group - you can have it, I'm not stopping you. Likewise if I want a pure PvE group, I can have it.

But then, I'm not the one saying you have to be locked in to it either - I'm quite happy for you to earn and buy your gear in solo or private then bring it in to open, YOU ARE THE ONE saying no. In no way am I trying to hinder or stop your game play, yet you're adamant on limiting mine.

And this is not about you having a power trip and ganking folks? - yea ok, if you say so.

 

[Ikari]

Not really. This goes to the concept of "controlled trade routes in ED". While I agree it's not possible to completely block the routes due to instancing (brilliant idea btw), it's possible to maintain high risk areas where the PVP encounter was eventually unavoidable.

Also regarding your comment of going on and offline. This does not always work in the favor of the victim. When the player disconnects during the combat his ship disappears immediately and he is off the scanner. When he comes back he lands exactly on the same instance with the aggressor allowing him few seconds of advantage before the control of the ship is regained. The best would be to have "the aggression timer" implemented leaving the ship in space for few minutes after the pilot disconnects in case of the combat. This will discourage the deliberate disconnection during the combat.

I can't see how there will ever be enough players to make anything unavoidable. My best suggestion would be to ticket it and see what frontier say.

As for the logging off in combat it needs to just be locked so you can't do it at all that's the only way to prevent that problem.

 

[Darzil]

"Game loses something by not forcing Open play" - Specifically it loses griefing idiots forcing players to stop playing due to being forced into a type of game they don't want, whilst not stopping people who enjoy PvP from doing it.

You can still hunt my unshielded trader in Open play, when I'm flying one, you'll win!

 

[Zenicetus]

Not really. This goes to the concept of "controlled trade routes in ED". While I agree it's not possible to completely block the routes due to instancing (brilliant idea btw), it's possible to maintain high risk areas where the PVP encounter was eventually unavoidable.

I doubt that. Too many things are working against the idea of controlled trade routes in this game:

1) Even if everyone is in All Online mode, there is simply no guarantee that the matchmaking server will ever co-locate any two players in the same overlapping P2P Island instances at a station, or on route to station.

2) There are no hot spots, no trading hubs. The way the game is currently working, stations are magically created behind the wave of exploration. There are simply too many possibilities for lucrative trade routes for any single one to be a worthwhile target for blockade, even if blockade could work with the instancing issues (and it can't).

3) With the degree of player dispersion in this game, it's NPC's (and background tweaking by FD) that control the economy at any given station. Even if it were possible to blockade (and it isn't) you'd have to be spending most of your time fighting NPC's if you're trying to control a trade route. And that's not really what you're looking for, is it?

If you actually understand how this game works under the hood, I think you'll see why "controlling a trade route" is a non-starter. Which is just one more reason why it doesn't matter if people can switch modes. It has no impact on the economy.

Also regarding your comment of going on and offline. This does not always work in the favor of the victim. When the player disconnects during the combat his ship disappears immediately and he is off the scanner. When he comes back he lands exactly on the same instance with the aggressor allowing him few seconds of advantage before the control of the ship is regained. The best would be to have "the aggression timer" implemented leaving the ship in space for few minutes after the pilot disconnects in case of the combat. This will discourage the deliberate disconnection during the combat.

There is already a 15 second timer for logging out while "in danger," whether you're in Solo or All Online mode. That number can be tweaked by FD as the game is further developed to prevent in-combat log-outs. It's not something they intend to allow as an evasion tactic, but it also has to be balanced against this somewhat wonky P2P connection model, so players aren't unduly penalized for temporary network drop-outs.

 

[Jockey79]

I can't see how there will ever be enough players to make anything unavoidable. My best suggestion would be to ticket it and see what frontier say.

As for the logging off in combat it needs to just be locked so you can't do it at all that's the only way to prevent that problem.

I've never seen an effective solution for that - as people claim to have bad internet connections, hence the sudden log outs or claim urgent family problems. Even though most of the time is it a lie just so someone can keep a decent K/D ratio, anything put in place to stop that hinders the genuine few who do have those problems and then they get upset their K/D ratio gets bad for situations out of their control.

That topic on every game forum I've seen it is a lose - lose either way.

 

[Robert Maynard]

These two possibilities will turn open world mode into the useless arena in year where only anacondas will compete for the rare sidewinder kill. This is the threat to the sandbox environment.

When all that are left in a locked in open-online mode were pro-PvP players, would it be any different?

 

[Clifford]

I've never seen an effective solution for that - as people claim to have bad internet connections, hence the sudden log outs or claim urgent family problems.

currently, in Gamma, there is a 15-second timeout required before logoff, if you are actively engaged in combat.

That topic on every game forum I've seen it is a lose - lose either way.

^ this.

 

[Toxic_Waster]

If you want your PvP only group - you can have it, I'm not stopping you. Likewise if I want a pure PvE group, I can have it.

But then, I'm not the one saying you have to be locked in to it either - I'm quite happy for you to earn and buy your gear in solo or private then bring it in to open, YOU ARE THE ONE saying no. In no way am I trying to hinder or stop your game play, yet you're adamant on limiting mine.

And this is not about you having a power trip and ganking folks? - yea ok, if you say so.

Because of constant wipes I experiment flying in my mighty sidewinder now, but let's get back on topic. All I'm saying that switching between modes should not be used as the tactical advantage to neither of the parties. This is the game exploit and has nothing to do with player's limitation of game style. And now I'm .. the grieeeefffer.

 

[Jorlin]

I had a post yesterday asking why use open play, and it turns out the only reason is to gank or be ganked.

But the fact you can advance in the game running solo only, imho, really makes the game lose something.

A lot of the fun of Eve is the fact that the risk is always there, and the level of risk is reflected in the level of reward.

But in ED, you can go do everything with no risk. (Interdiction by NPC's isn't a risk, its easy to avoid).

I really wish you could only advance in Open play, or that Open money/ships/reputation were separate from Solo money/ships/reputation.

Yes, I know some don't want to have to deal with other players, great, there is a solo mode.

But the fact that solo and open are tied together means you can play in complete safety, get your uber ship, then jump into open.

Really feels like the game is losing some of its potential by having a 100% safe mode.

i think i don't even need to read the rest of the thread since it has been chewn throug so many times before.
you don't like it (for some reason), i like it (for some other reason)... we won't agree or find a compromise, so the debate is obviously doomed.

 

[Toxic_Waster]

When all that are left in a locked in open-online mode were pro-PvP players, would it be any different?

Your hate to the player encounters is common here. Why so much fear? May be they can be your friends.

 

[Robert Maynard]

All I'm saying that switching between modes should not be used as the tactical advantage to neither of the parties. This is the game exploit and has nothing to do with player's limitation of game style.

It is unclear when a player will be able to group switch. Up to now, the decision as to which mode to play in is made at the beginning of a session and the game must be exited to allow a change to take place. Whether this will change on release is as yet unknown (it was put forward during DDF discussions [I think] that group switching would only be able to occur when a player was changing instance, i.e. entering / leaving SC; making a hyper-jump, or in stations).

The Kickstarter FAQ mentions the ability to group switch at will:

How does multiplayer work?

You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) some of the other ships you meet as you travel around are real players as opposed to computer-controlled ships. It may be a friend you have agreed to rendezvous with here, or it may be another real player you have encountered by chance. All players will be part of a “Pilot’s Federation” – that is how they are distinguished from non-players – so you will be able to tell who is a player and who is a non-player easily.

You will be able to save your position in certain key places (probably just in space stations, but possibly while in hyperspace too, if we feel it is needed). A save-and-quit option will be freely available at those points, as will the subsequent reload, but there will be a game cost for a reload following player death. Your ship will still be intact in the condition it was when the save occurred, but there will be a game currency charge (referred to as an insurance policy) for this. This is to prevent the obvious exploit of friends cooperating and killing each other to get each other’s cargo. If you can’t pay, then it will accumulate as an in-game debt, and the police may chase you!

There are no multiplayer lobbies, and the game will be played across many servers, augmented by peer-to-peer traffic for fast responses. Session creation and destruction happens during the long-range hyperspace countdown and hyperspace effect (which is a few seconds only), so is transparent to the player.

We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will, though it will be possible to be banned from groups due to antisocial behaviour, and you will only meet others in that group.

Last updated: Wed, Nov 14 2012 12:52 PM +00:00

 

[smsKONG]

I have a humble request. Would you mind to edit your post and replace all "WE" with "I". Thanking in advance.

Perhaps if you had read and digested the post fully, you would see I already stated that I don't speak for everyone - but I've been here long enough to know I speak for more than just myself.
Obviously WE can count you as an old schooler who wants an open only universe that works like a traditional mmo.


If people's biggest concern is that someone can just switch groups mid gank, my bad, mid combat - then all we need is to only allow group switching at game start or in station. Personally I can't think why anyone would have a valid reason to absolutely need to switch from open to solo in the middle of space anyway; unless they are switching off for the night and decided to play solo when they switched back on.

Or just no switching if being interdicted or in combat.

Either way that seems reasonable to me, as it only needs to stop people dropping from open to solo on a whim. People should be able to join open from solo at anytime.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Your hate to the player encounters is common here. Why so much fear? May be they can be your friends.

You are conflating wishing to keep options open with fear. It may well be that I will encounter players in open and enjoy a sense of camaraderie. We'll see what happens when the game goes live.

 

[Wolff117]

Lots of player to come after the 16th OP. I'm sure you will find many players like yourself. The great thing about this game you can choose your own path!! If I were you, just think about your own game and try to test gamma, best as you can.

 

[Seonid]

If people's biggest concern is that someone can just switch groups mid gank, my bad, mid combat

Since that has never been suggested either by FD or the DDF, why is a concern? Roberts post above yours answers that.

 

[Toxic_Waster]

It is unclear when a player will be able to group switch. Up to now, the decision as to which mode to play in is made at the beginning of a session and the game must be exited to allow a change to take place. Whether this will change on release is as yet unknown (it was put forward during DDF discussions [I think] that group switching would only be able to occur when a player was changing instance, i.e. entering / leaving SC; making a hyper-jump, or in stations).

The Kickstarter FAQ mentions the ability to group switch at will:

As per my experience the mode switch is instant.

 

[Robert Maynard]

As per my experience the mode switch is instant.

How are you switching groups in-game?

 

[Jorlin]

As per my experience the mode switch is instant.

We don't know if it will stay that way.