Game loses something by not forcing Open play

AndyC77 · Dec 7, 2014

My god is this thread still going? Yawn.

StayFrosty · Dec 7, 2014

TheEponymousBob said:
Encouraging players sceptical of open to try it brings on greater diversity.

Explain how, with examples.

TheEponymousBob said:
What problems?

You tell me, I'm not the one using them to justify playing in a group.

TheEponymousBob said:
Mode-switching.

Explain how, with examples.

TheEponymousBob said:
Please refer to the reasons I have given numerously in this thread and before.

TheEponymousBob said:
No, I'm afraid you're missing the point: it has nothing to do with courage.

Then it's the physical effort of pushing the button, I knew it!

TheEponymousBob said:
And that's where your problem is. We're not talking about people who don't enjoy multiplayer. If we were, there'd be no problem separating the modes entirely. We're talking about people who enjoy both multiplayer and solo.

And your problem is that I'm talking about how solo and open play are essentially the exact same thing. Your other problem is thinking I'm only talking about one subject too.

TheEponymousBob said:
It's not any contradiction that is blowing your mind, it is that you've not grasped what we are asking for.

So you're asking for something you have. Yes, that is blowing my mind.

murraypaul · Dec 7, 2014

Vectorman said:
I agree with the OP solo play is almost a cheat mode to level faster without the extra risk of encountering other human players. Everyone could just leave the open play servers empty for the first month or so and then jump in with thousands of people owning anacondas because they played solo mode and had no major threats to worry about.

'Levelling'? Wrong game, I think.
Just how much faster do you think people in solo are making money than those in open?
Fly 50ly in any direction and you'll probably be playing on your own anyway.
I'm not playing solo to make money faster, I'm playing it because I want to play on my own.
Even if there were a slight disadvantage to playing solo, I still would.

StayFrosty · Dec 7, 2014

Ikari said:
But you'll be happy to reap the benefits of all those explorers and traders in the PVE group while you just kill things. I've said it already but I want frontier to split both groups so you PVP'ers can't benefit from the playstyles you don't like and you are more than welcome to your death match arena.

Who said I want to kill anyone? Do you know me?

I think you didn't quite grasped the idea, it's not about me, it's about the community. It's not about "getting what I want", it's about finding a compromise, where no one truly get what he wants, but everyone at least gets something. In the current situation, PvE players can get EXACTLY what they wnat, and and I can understand this is a comfortable situation, but it's still harmful for the community.

Because what I want is precisely that open play doesn't become a deathmatch arena, and people hiding in groups are likley to cause it.

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anthonycsheehy said:
On this point I've noticed that if you become a little bullish on the thread, like telling them you'll be hunting them down, or calling them out to a particular point because you're waiting there for them, people advocating griefing as normal play do become remarkably quiet.

I don't really think that griefing will be a problem on day one, since everyone will be far too scattered. Real griefers head for where all the players are, so expect them to congregate around Sol. Everyone goes to Sol once. I've been in the gamma, I'm not sure I'll return after release.

Well I hope it doesn't, that's still a worst case scenario. But we're on quite a slippery slope already.

murraypaul · Dec 7, 2014

StayFrosty said:
2) Because some people are jerks. The AI is programmed to be a jerk, it has an excuse.

Click to expand...

At least, I'm glad someone said it, usually people calls me names when I say they just don't like losing to people, and occasionally say they're "sore losers", so I'm happy I don't have to say it for once. But hey, at least I can respect that, much more than those that are still trying to justify themselves as they just won't admit it.

No, you don't get it.
It isn't about losing, it is about being annoyed by jerks.
Suppose someone did nothing except follow you around and deliberately fly in front of you whenever they could.
You can still do everything you need to do, it is just more annoying.
In no way could you have been said to have 'lost' to the jerk, but they are still a jerk, and playing without them will be more fun than playing with them.

StayFrosty · Dec 7, 2014

murraypaul said:
Yes, you don't get it.
That isn't a dig, but my view of ideal gaming is so different from yours that you genuinely don't seem to be able do understand it.
That is fine, I don't need you to.
Just stop trying to force me to play my game the way you want.

Why do you insist on replying to posts that don't reply to yours? You only end up missing the point, because no, I still don't want to force anyone to do anything. Stop finding reasons to argue.

murraypaul · Dec 7, 2014

StayFrosty said:
And your problem is that I'm talking about how solo and open play are essentially the exact same thing.

Except that open has other people in it, and solo doesn't.
That is the point. Sometimes we just want to play all on our own.

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StayFrosty said:
Why do you insist on replying to posts that don't reply to yours?

Um, it is a forum. It is for discussion.
If everyone only replied to posts that replied to their own posts, there would never be more than two people in any thread.

StayFrosty · Dec 7, 2014

Traceracing said:
I can't speak for everyone, but I've never been attacked as I leave a starport by an NPC... nor when lining up to land. I have by a human player...

While I can agree that's annoying, that's still hardly a fundamental difference, and a quite rare occurrence. And with the game being a sandbox, one could still argue you have a small responsibility in it, for not being careful enough.

That's a good reason, but that seems to me to be a long way from justifying a complete exclusion from others, especially when it's those others that could help you and escort you and not only prevent this from happening, but also turn it into an interesting gameplay opportunity.

Problems with players are solved with more players.

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Azimuth said:
All Frontier need to do is rename 'Open' mode as PvP, and promote the Mobius group to 'PvE' mode - then all the people who like shooting at humans or getting shot at by humans will be happy. Unless the PvP crowd need a stream of unwilling victims to feel happy?

That would make both PvE and PvP stale and boring for the majority. The PvE crowd still needs PvP to spice things up, PvP is only countered by PvE otherwise it dies on its own, and MMOs of the last few years have proven that the majority of players partakes in the two. And if we really get deep into that, there's far more than just "PvP" and "PvE".

So no, that would be a terrible solution, but that hasn't much to do with "unwilling victims".

Cmdr Andy B · Dec 7, 2014

StayFrosty said:
Problems with players are solved with more players.

that's the same argument the NRA use and it holds no water for them either, the problem with it in this context is simply the fact that you cannot tell in advance if the additional players will help out those in trouble or join in on the side of the person causing the trouble.

more players can easily equal more problems and for every extra player you introduce to the scenario the results become harder to judge.

Arkantes · Dec 7, 2014

StayFrosty said:
That would make both PvE and PvP stale and boring for the majority. The PvE crowd still needs PvP to spice things up, PvP is only countered by PvE otherwise it dies on its own, and MMOs of the last few years have proven that the majority of players partakes in the two. And if we really get deep into that, there's far more than just "PvP" and "PvE".

So no, that would be a terrible solution, but that hasn't much to do with "unwilling victims".

I'm pretty sure the guys in the Mobius group are fairly fine with not bothering with PVP. But fun fact, the group doesn't forbid PVP, just non-consensual one, it's allowed in warzones. And that's where the actual issue is. The issue has never been PVP itself.

Murphy's Ghost · Dec 7, 2014

Griefers still wanna grief, solo players still want to have solo fun. Such madness!

Tar Stone · Dec 7, 2014

Murphy's Ghost said:
Griefers still wanna grief, solo players still want to have solo fun. Such madness!

If humans ever take to the stars and start to colonise far off systems, the entire milky way galaxy will curl itself up into a giant facepalm.

T@F · Dec 7, 2014

StayFrosty said:
That would make both PvE and PvP stale and boring for the majority. The PvE crowd still needs PvP to spice things up, PvP is only countered by PvE otherwise it dies on its own, and MMOs of the last few years have proven that the majority of players partakes in the two. And if we really get deep into that, there's far more than just "PvP" and "PvE".

I disagree.
I'v put a lot of hours in skyrim still do and it never bores me.
I also put a lot of hours in guildwars 2 yet i never group with anyone just play the pve part on my own.(solo)
I will put a lot of hours/years in elite solo and will still enjoy it.

Also you keep banging on about we need pvp to spice things up,speak for yourself i and prob many others will enjoy solo just as much as you enjoying the pvp part.
Also many of us also play elite solo because of bandwidth reasons or bad connections or just want to be on our own.it's not all about stupid pvp you know.
Nothing going to change now and i hope it don't.
I would hate to be force with gankers,hackers and well you get the msg.

SK13 · Dec 7, 2014

Archaegeo said:
I had a post yesterday asking why use open play, and it turns out the only reason is to gank or be ganked.

But the fact you can advance in the game running solo only, imho, really makes the game lose something.

A lot of the fun of Eve is the fact that the risk is always there, and the level of risk is reflected in the level of reward.

But in ED, you can go do everything with no risk. (Interdiction by NPC's isn't a risk, its easy to avoid).

I really wish you could only advance in Open play, or that Open money/ships/reputation were separate from Solo money/ships/reputation.

Yes, I know some don't want to have to deal with other players, great, there is a solo mode.

But the fact that solo and open are tied together means you can play in complete safety, get your uber ship, then jump into open.

Really feels like the game is losing some of its potential by having a 100% safe mode.

Wouldn't worry me in the least either way. I play solo only and will never venture into open play. So by all means have the two separate, for those of us that will only ever play solo,...pfft..who cares. If they ever do try forcing solos into open,..I'll be outa here quicker then light speed. ;-)

Kharax · Dec 7, 2014

REPEAD:

I realy dont get the point of all these "iam getting ganked every time poeple" even the contested area is more then BIG ENOUGH,
I Play only Online and nearly the first thing ive done is going away from where the most players are, just to grow up, explorated a bit/sometimes a mission and searched a while but atleast ive found a gold mine constellation and mission hub, where it seems where no one ever was before, ok a Friend of mine also came as i talked to him, and ive done my trade runs with a Type6 and 104 tons full of gold and palladium ONLINE, never saw any other player minimal 100 ly away just on the traffic reports on station sometimes.
Ive made a few millions there ONLINE whitout ever being harassed from other Poeple.

Learn to Find your own Patch is the Keyword, Why you should i stay at a overwalked place, with docking ques and an outjerked market from solo traders???

The Real problem is, there not enought Real Multiplayer Features online at the moment, its more like randomly playing singleplayers together,
theres is atm nothing you can archive while playing Multiplayer for longer therms like:

- Multiplayer Base building
- player-created missions like:
we need 100 tons of different minerals/machines to build up our station/or manufactoring rewarding you with 1 million credits or such. (not able to be done in solo mode)
Ill reward you with 200k for killing CMDR XXX for ganking me in my hauler.
and so on...
- Production
- conquest

And I Realy hope that such Features are Planed and comming ingame, because when not: it realy makes whole the Multiplayer mode Pointless.
When those Multiplayer Features are comming you just have the choice stay solo/switch mode and just take a look at this multiplayer features:
but when you want want do take a part of those features youre not able to switch back to solo mode.

If those features are not going to be Implemented for whatever reason:

Its only like throwing away the real potential features for having a real living universe with long therme Goals,
For making a everydays yesterdays single player experience, whats over if you reach Anaconda ;D If this is it, i wish you a happy single player boredome.

Griefer Candy LOL
Poeple complaining about being ganked without ever being ganked, thats the point.

Iam an delicius griefer Candy come on and grief me please....

Azimuth · Dec 7, 2014

StayFrosty said:
I think you didn't quite grasped the idea, it's not about me, it's about the community. It's not about "getting what I want", it's about finding a compromise, where no one truly get what he wants, but everyone at least gets something. In the current situation, PvE players can get EXACTLY what they wnat, and and I can understand this is a comfortable situation, but it's still harmful for the community.

Because what I want is precisely that open play doesn't become a deathmatch arena, and people hiding in groups are likley to cause it.

'Hiding'? That's quite an emotive word. And your previous statement seems to suggest that the absence of PvE players, ie. players who do not want to engage in PvP, is somehow damaging your game experience. PvE players certainly aren't getting exactly what they want - currently they have to go out of their way to join a PvE group like Mobius, or play solo. In Eve Online, 'carebears' could stick to safe systems and fit warp core stabilisers; that's not possible in ED.

I'm not sure what qualifies as a 'deathmatch arena' - is that just a galaxy in which all player-versus-player combat is consensual? Is that such a bad thing? It sounds fine to me.

StayFrosty said:
That would make both PvE and PvP stale and boring for the majority. The PvE crowd still needs PvP to spice things up, PvP is only countered by PvE otherwise it dies on its own, and MMOs of the last few years have proven that the majority of players partakes in the two. And if we really get deep into that, there's far more than just "PvP" and "PvE".

So no, that would be a terrible solution, but that hasn't much to do with "unwilling victims".

Personally, I don't need PvP to spice anything up in ED, and I don't agree that separating PvE and PvP would make it boring for both. (Or were you suggesting that the majority of people are PvPers and they'd be the ones getting bored?) I've not needed to shoot at human players to enjoy the game so far, and I don't see that changing. I don't care that Hengist Duval is sick; I'm not interested in the capture-the-flag / DOTA2-style warzone tussles. I appreciate that you think the core of ED's game is combat, but other people see things differently. And that's the issue - you say "it's about the community"; the issue is, as these forums neatly demonstrate, there isn't just one ED community, there are several.

Jockey79 · Dec 7, 2014

StayFrosty said:
I think you didn't quite grasped the idea, it's not about me, it's about the community.

Yea, if you say so.

I've read this entire thread from page 1, I've been around for most of it - each time I've come up with a counter point to you, you've ignored me - like so many others who have tried to force you to show your true colours, you have not even acknowledged our existence, you just carried on posting your reasons why I should be a victim of your ego and gank squads in a locked open.

I do like how you post a few opinions and wait a few pages, for people to forget you - then you start again, with the same bull, just with new people.

Zephyr · Dec 7, 2014

I agree with the premise of the thread. The game definitely loses something important by allowing mode switching. On the other hand, plenty of people will still play open mode. (Although you will never see anyone else due to how pointlessly huge the game is) Also, the Devs have time and time again shown how little they care about people interested in a competitive experience. They are clearly catering towards those who wish to play alone, so this thread is likely a waste of time. This issue has been brought up (by me even) since early Alpha. This is one thing they are not going to budge on.

T@F · Dec 7, 2014

Zephyr said:
They are clearly catering towards those who wish to play alone..

Also for ppl who have slow connections,bad connections,bandwidth caps or tethering from there mobile phones.
It's not just all about players who want to play alone.
If that was the case we would have got offline mode.

Jenner · Dec 7, 2014

Be respectful to each other people. Personal attacks are against forum rules.

Game loses something by not forcing Open play

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.