Game loses something by not forcing Open play

[CMDR Sheehy]

This game is called "Elite: Dangerous", named after two combat ranks. It pretty much revolves around combat, which implies both confrontation and competition, and your activities are either all about it, or revolve around successfully avoiding it. If you don't like combat, I'm not sure what you should be doing, because even NPCs will constantly chase you.

Er, you based the whole premise of this game on the title? Are you someone who judges a book by it's cover?

I'll engage in combat as much as the next person, but I also know when to run. That does not make me there for the combat. Life is far richer to be fighting people all the time. Elite is far richer than combat, but it takes us back to the wild west, where gain and a good life was hard fought for...

 

[Crook]

I'm coming to a few conclusions about ED:

1) Offline cancel may help produce a more dynamic galaxy, but it REALLY helps DRM enforcement. Super win for FD there - probably a sensible business reason. If it was offline, I imagine the piracy level (of the game, not NPC's ) would be extraordinary.

2) The galaxy is so huge that a playerbase of hundreds of thousands can get lost in it. Online play might mean we don't meet each other all that often

3) I like online interaction in games. I don't play COD against bots - where's the fun in that? I'd like storylines based around some core systems to keep a lot of us there, minimise NPC and maximise chances of being with humans online. If you want to forgo that and explore, fine, but we need a hook in some core systems. However, the entire principle of Elite is and always was one person, alone, in your ship. ED is no different, and that is a little bland for online interaction.

4) The game won't become super popular - it's a niche game. A bigger niche than others, but still. The player numbers, limited social stuff and 32 players per instanced system will limit the feel of MMO (which it is but really isn't) for many.

5) I don't much care for any of the above - I'll play regardless and see where it takes me. If in a year the game is awful with nothing on the horizon, I'll just ditch it. Maybe star citizen will be out by then, or EVE Valkyrie and a consumer oculus rift, and ED will have articles like 'what Elite could have been........' on the internet. I hope they don't blame it on the limited finances though.

 

[Karrzork]

What killed EVE for me was that the griefing and scamming became the norm and seemed to overtake the game. It was encouraged by CCP and led to an exodus of many people, me being one, leaving behind a set of “vets” and some very unsavoury people. I found that aspect of the game not fun rather the opposite given the level of ganking, gating and suicide runs. Also EVE was unforgiving and left you high and dry re losses, given that the insurance system was wholly inadequate. The argument being it reflected real life, well not mine nor the area I live in!

This game, I hope, will steer clear of falling into that type of gameplay. If not, then I will not partake. If people want to play that type of game then there is other mmo’s open to them e.g. EVE being the absolute winner in that category. I have no problem with pvp (I play MWO; all pvp) but not to the extent that I would be constantly attacked by humans and lose all my assets. Not sure if you can even store stuff in ED! And yes, sadly, there are those out there that would only concentrate on that aspect of gameplay. But that is there option to do so (in other games).

I expect some risk in some areas, high risk in other areas and some relatively safe spots to build up my game. As to the cross-over issue then that may need to be looked at. The OP’s point on solo play then jumping into open play and back again without risk just reward is interesting. Maybe a better reward system for open than solo, though how that would be implemented is a different matter.

As the game develops, we hopefully will see more people and more interaction. Currently the game does not allow for this. This type of debate does need to be aired as it will crop up throughout ED’s evolution.

 

[Joe Spivey]

For someone who doesn't like PvP you do a lot of fighting on the forums. If this is your preferred arena, fine. Just leave PvPers to enjoy theirs?

But I do leave PvPers. It's those who hide behind PvP that I go after. You know, those who can't create a logical argument to support what they want to do in game.

 

[murraypaul]

This game is called "Elite: Dangerous", named after two combat ranks. It pretty much revolves around combat

You may have noticed that unlike the original game, in this one there are three different sets of rankings. One for combat, one for trading and one for exploring.
So we all have our own goals to aim for.
It isn't all about combat. If it was, why have they explicitly added achievement tracks for the non-combat aspects?

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

If I want to spend my time building up a capable ship in Solo, it's not because I want to use it to gank, it's because there is less risk of being ganked. Saying that, I'm discovering that the chances of being ganked is actually quite small.

So let me give you another scenario. So you want everyone to play Open, right? So when I take my laptop and go on site for a couple of days. I get to my hotel and pull out my laptop to relax by playing ED. Guess what, the hotel router doesn't do uPNP and there's an expensive limit on data. Okay, I'll go solo... Oh wait... there's no solo 'cause somebody insisted that everyone do open!!!

So you, at home, with your always on super high speed broadband, probably trolled the Offliners (making big assumptions here, excuse the hyperbole) now want to cut out another layer of players for what reason? So that it is richer for you?

There's one word for that, begins with a capital S...

 

[Agony_Aunt]

List those problems, justify their existence, and explain how it doesn't cause more. That would have been a proper reply.

That's not the point. If you can handle NPCs, you can handle players. Still, I have no problems chatting with people in open play, and I find them far more civil than NPCs. How can you complain about players more than NPCs?

Honestly I'm the one feeling like he's beeing trolled, seeing people exagerate things they never even faced, talking about things they don't know, and completely ignoring the existence of a "community" around this game. It's like you think you can play a proper game of chess while missing half the pieces.

Try to come up with more serious replies and then maybe we can talk.

1) Problem - PvP. I do not want to PvP. I don't enjoy PvP. This is my preference. The game gives me the option to avoid PvP, therefore i take it. A good RPing Pirate could be fun to interact with, but I will never risk it, because there is a decent chance it will simply be a ganker.

2) I also run from NPC Pirates. At least for the moment. When i get a better ship ill consider taking them on. But then its on my terms. If i'm bimbling around in a Hauler, and getting yanked out of SC by players, possibly repeatedly, and getting destroyed repeatedly, that is going to turn me off big style. Also, the main difference is that I know the NPC behaves like a jerk, because that is how its programmed to behave. I'm not going to get annoyed with it. But if its a player behaving like a jerk then i will be annoyed.

I think the thing you seem to be having trouble understanding is that some people simply do not want to PvP. You cannot get your head around it, therefore those who do not want to PvP must be somehow wrong.

Now, you may consider yourself to be a good player, one who will perhaps only target people flying decent sized ships, that you will never interdict a newbie flying a Startwinder. And that would be nice to believe. But i also know there are those who will happily gank anyone and everyone without reason.

And that is perhaps the main reason why i will avoid open play, at least until i get a decent ship.

But question for you: Why do you expect people who do not like PvP should have to play in Open play and face PvP and be targets for you? Do you believe that we somehow invalidate your own play style?

 

[Joe Spivey]

This game is called "Elite: Dangerous", named after two combat ranks. It pretty much revolves around combat, which implies both confrontation and competition, and your activities are either all about it, or revolve around successfully avoiding it. If you don't like combat, I'm not sure what you should be doing, because even NPCs will constantly chase you.

A case in point about not being able to form a cohesive logical argument. This poster has made a point, but conveniently ignores the rest of the facts behind the ranking system in ED. His logical fallacy is then easily destroyed by murraypaul pointing out these facts.

You may have noticed that unlike the original game, in this one there are three different sets of rankings. One for combat, one for trading and one for exploring.
So we all have our own goals to aim for.
It isn't all about combat. If it was, why have they explicitly added achievement tracks for the non-combat aspects?

 

[OVMorat]

But I do leave PvPers. It's those who hide behind PvP that I go after. You know, those who can't create a logical argument to support what they want to do in game.

No, you just hate PvP. There's no need to defend PvP in a game called Elite Dangerous and featuring combat at the very core of the game design. If this game was called Elite PvE or Elite Solo you might have a point but it isn't and you don't.
Your posts make your hatred clear. You have an unbalanced view and you add nothing to the debate which means you're just a forum troll and not a very clever one.
Welcome to my ignore list, population: one.

 

[Miklos Atreides]

This game is called "Elite: Dangerous", named after two combat ranks. It pretty much revolves around combat, which implies both confrontation and competition, and your activities are either all about it, or revolve around successfully avoiding it. If you don't like combat, I'm not sure what you should be doing, because even NPCs will constantly chase you.

To point it out here there's nothing bad about being chased from time to time and all those ugly NPCs that chased me were less than 1% of NPCs I met during my travels. So I have no problem with them in general they are peaceful as me. So they let me play the gime like I would get the most fun out of it.

T
Still, not everyone is an achiever, some simply find it enjoyable doing things with others, such as competing. There isn't necessarily a goal to it, it doesn't need one. It's just enjoyable. And as I said, it's not because you compete against others that you seek actual confrontation. "Shooting someone" doesn't imply "hating him", nor "destroying things" imply being "angry" or "sad". Different people find different things enjoyable, that's how things are, but regardless, this is a game where you'll be constantly competing with NPCs, and if you don't like competition, well then I'm surprised you could like this game, because it's mostly about destroying and competing.

This game was never around destroying. Not in 1984 not 30 years later. I know it for sure. I played both to the extent.
But the stament from you made here can lead to a dangerous conclusion that using violence for fun is ok. But it isn't.

If you go for a COD run ok. This is a wargame but this is a traders and explorers game with some critical impact not a war game with some trading to fund the weapons and amunition.

But coming back to the original point. You will loose nothing if solo players can play solo or online on demand except some possible non NPC targets. Finally if you are concerned to meet a griefer shooting you to dust you will not experience any difference if he made his experience online or offline.

 

[Joe Spivey]

No, you just hate PvP. There's no need to defend PvP in a game called Elite Dangerous and featuring combat at the very core of the game design. If this game was called Elite PvE or Elite Solo you might have a point but it isn't and you don't.
Your posts make your hatred clear. You have an unbalanced view and you add nothing to the debate which means you're just a forum troll and not a very clever one.
Welcome to my ignore list, population: one.

Whoops. See, now you've gone and done it too. Yes, combat is at the core of the game design, but not PvP. PvP is not and never has been the central feature of ED. ED is DESIGNED to be a player co-op game with a PvP element. DB has said many times that PvP is meant to be rare and meaningful. (See Dev Diary vids and some of his game reviews and media interviews). If I add nothing to the debate then it should be easy to defeat any point I make. So debate me. But no, you just resort to personal insult which is a) rather juvenile and b) doesn't put you in a very good light. Aaaand to top it off you throw your toys out of the pram and run away. Nice avatar btw, very defining.

 

[Ikari]

I'm pretty sure if humans do ever make it into deep space to live they will be more concerned with gathering resources than driving around in little space ships shooting at each other.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I'm pretty sure if humans do ever make it into deep space to live they will be more concerned with gathering resources than driving around in little space ships shooting at each other.

Except for those in opposing factions who think it would be a grand plan to save the bother of gathering resources by simply taking them from an someone who has already gathered them....

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Except for those in opposing factions who think it would be a grand plan to save the bother of gathering resources by simply taking them from an someone who has already gathered them....

Getting the threads confused are we?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Getting the threads confused are we?

I would have expected that including the quote that I was replying to would ensure that a reader would be left in no doubt as to the reason for the post....

 

[Ikari]

I would have expected that including the quote that I was replying to would ensure that a reader would be left in no doubt as to the reason for the post....

Are we all not getting a little bored with this argument of PVP vs PVE and how much they hate each other?

I was just trying to inject some subjective thinking into the discussion

Top and bottom of this argument is Frontier made the game the way it is and I doubt they are going to change it to suit either party.

 

[Joe Spivey]

Are we all not getting a little bored with this argument of PVP vs PVE and how much they hate each other?

I was just trying to inject some subjective thinking into the discussion

Top and bottom of this argument is Frontier made the game the way it is and I doubt they are going to change it to suit either party.

With you there. In fact I'm surprised the mods have let this thread carry on going round and around for as long as they have.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Are we all not getting a little bored with this argument of PVP vs PVE and how much they hate each other?

Top and bottom of this argument is Frontier made the game the way it is and I doubt they are going to change it to suit either party.

Indeed, except hate is a bit strong - it's seems to be (to me) more of a lack of appreciation for why proponents of each play-style enjoy the style.

.... and yes, Frontier did make the game this way and have shown no indication of any likelihood to change the features available to players regarding group switching.

 

[Serkor]

2) The galaxy is so huge that a playerbase of hundreds of thousands can get lost in it. Online play might mean we don't meet each other all that often

3) I like online interaction in games. I don't play COD against bots - where's the fun in that? I'd like storylines based around some core systems to keep a lot of us there, minimise NPC and maximise chances of being with humans online. If you want to forgo that and explore, fine, but we need a hook in some core systems. However, the entire principle of Elite is and always was one person, alone, in your ship. ED is no different, and that is a little bland for online interaction.

4) The game won't become super popular - it's a niche game. A bigger niche than others, but still. The player numbers, limited social stuff and 32 players per instanced system will limit the feel of MMO (which it is but really isn't) for many.

Totally agree with above

Point 2 : DB always said from the beginning that encounters with other players would be now and then.

Point 3 : also plan to play Open for the same reasons

Point 4 : I agree it will not be super popular for the reasons you state, and I'm glad it will be so.

See you in the Galaxy, may be ?

 

[Kramster]

Sometimes it is good to be able to trade and interact in the open world with real people other times I prefer the internet....same stores, same world...different experience...my choice
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Humans are so special and considerate sometimes and this was one of the less violent crowds
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