Gamescom 2015 - What will FD Unveil?

[ZeeWolf]

People complain about Powerplay because it's a flagship enhancement to Elite, using up a shed load of development time, which has introduced a board game mechanic which I'd suggest most players are really not interesting in participating in (hence targets being met ten fold over by players not the least bit concerned with Powerplay really). Worse still, it doesn't really advantance any gameplay mechanics itself, but lovingly embraces the same old grind-mini-games that have been in the game since last year. In short, the same, or more, could have been achieved with a simpler solution IMHO (eg: via Factions and missions in the bulleting board).

Worse still - and this is probably what annoys more people - imagine what that development effort could have moved forwards in so many areas of the core game mechanics... Worse still, development time is still seemingly being dedicated to it (and away from the core game).

Anyhoo...

Core game-play mechanic? Fairly ambiguous term, especially considering the (conveniently forgot) additional upgrades that come in the major patches such as mining improvements.

Can you state exactly how much "development time" you think was spent on PP compared to other parts of this title?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

People complain about Powerplay because it's a flagship enhancement to Elite, using up a shed load of development time, which has introduced a board game mechanic which I'd suggest most players are really not interesting in participating in (hence targets being met ten fold over by players not the least bit concerned with Powerplay really). Worse still, it doesn't really advantance any gameplay mechanics itself, but lovingly embraces the same old grind-mini-games that have been in the game since last year. In short, the same, or more, could have been achieved with a simpler solution IMHO (eg: via Factions and missions in the bulleting board).

Worse still - and this is probably what annoys more people - imagine what that development effort could have moved forwards in so many areas of the core game mechanics... Worse still, development time is still seemingly being dedicated to it (and away from the core game).

Anyhoo...

FD follows their development schedule and plan. PP provides basis for meta game element always being planned for ED. Yes, it's first iteration uses same old mechanics, because new mechanics aren't there yet. Missions and more tailored elements in PP will be welcome. I don't play it either, but I don't hate it, because I see it being useful.

Problem is players are doing it themselves - they are overplay/overgrind game, then complain how everything is grind, then grind for PP modules, then complain again. There have been tons of warnings - ED is not the game for completionists. If you worry about your progress being reset, if you worry about someone having better ship than you - DON'T PLAY IT. Yes, FD HAS to add more to the game. Doesn't change one bit that people complaining about grind will go trough content very fast and will complain again.

 

[WreckWren]

There is a slight tendency to overreact when it comes to PowerPlay. It's just an additional bit of content targeted at players putting in so many hours and complaining that the game gave them nothing to do. It's a completely optional addition to the game and nothing more than a content layer where there are so many complaints that the game lacks content.

Honestly, if they had made it so you didn't even know about PowerPlay unless you got a top rank with a faction and met a contact that enabled you to enter an Elite group of influence, I bet hardly anyone would have moaned. It'd be like an awesome deep complex mission structure. It's only that Frontier wanted everyone to try it that made it feel like a critical part of the game and fairly shallow.

It should have been released as a minor update, not a big & hyped one, which is my point - is FD hyping up another mostly irrelevant feature?

You have to admit, for how prominent PP is in the game, it's underwhelming in terms of depth & effect.

 

[ZeeWolf]

Anyhoo let's not turn this into a PowerPlay argument thread.

So how about crew & passengers then?

Honestly, if Frontier tease an expansion but announce NPC crew & passengers as a base game update in the next few months it'll be awesome.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

It should have been released as a minor update, not a big & hyped one, which is my point - is FD hyping up another mostly irrelevant feature?

Ohhh, it is very big and relevant, but in long term. Problem is player see what they want *now*, but FD has planned their development ahead for a *year*. No, they didn't release PP just because people ran out of things to do.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyhoo let's not turn this into a PowerPlay argument thread.

So how about crew & passengers then?

Honestly, if Frontier tease an expansion but announce NPC crew & passengers as a base game update in the next few months it'll be awesome.

Yeah, this is my number one improvement to core game. Some part of me hope they will do a) reveal b) 1.4 news and c) "one more thing...we are working on 2nd tier persistent NPCS!" tomorrow.

 

[Soopyyy]

Ohhh, it is very big and relevant, but in long term. Problem is player see what they want *now*, but FD has planned their development ahead for a *year*. No, they didn't release PP just because people ran out of things to do.

I agree, but personally I think the balancing of merits was by far the biggest issue with PP. If it had of released as it is now... I would have had far less issue with it.

 

[WreckWren]

Ohhh, it is very big and relevant, but in long term. Problem is player see what they want *now*, but FD has planned their development ahead for a *year*. No, they didn't release PP just because people ran out of things to do.

Obviously its relevance is a matter up for dispute, since the majority disagrees with you.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=169171


Apologies if the thread has been slightly derailed, I merely mentioned PP as an example of FD hyping up a feature that ended up being a big disappointment.

 

[matemaster]

my guess is it will be planetary landings expansion.
I see parallel here with guildwars2. They also stated that they will make huge announcement, players were guessing... yes it was expansion (the wet dream of most players)

So FD will announce the planetary landings paid expansion but no date (for hype to build up)

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

I was sure this was the thread about the 'big' reveal by FD, now I'm not so sure and maybe this is the PP QQ thread?

Oh well, it may be a bit off topic but I think we may be in for another 'new' thing, not landings and we know it's not walking around alternative UI interfaces. Could be anything from a galactic invasion to the price of fish falling by 2%.

I think it's going to be the launch date for 1.4 along with a list of changes including the new mission system. Apart from that I'm not going to hold my breath but rather wait for the news to be given out.

Sorry for going off topic.

 

[NeilF]

Core game-play mechanic? Fairly ambiguous term, especially considering the (conveniently forgot) additional upgrades that come in the major patches such as mining improvements.

If we list the significant enhancements since release which extend/add to/deepen the core gameplay experience/occupations? Let me know if I miss any (I probably have?):-
1) Wings - Whilst not truly adding anything to the core game mechanics, it obviously allows people to participate in them in groups, which IMHO improves/deepens the gameplay experience, hence me including it.
2) ? surely I've missed something ?

...Is that it? IMHO. I know you'll now suggest a myriad of other enhancements, but to me (the ones I can think of) are so minor I don't really merit them as deserving inclusing. eg: The recent limpers while useful, don't really deepen or extend core gameplay.

Can you state exactly how much "development time" you think was spent on PP compared to other parts of this title?

Why ask such an odd question as if it makes a point? Are you suggesting you don't think a significant amount of development time was spent on it? Are you suggesting that time couldn't have been instead spent on:-
1) Adding more features/content to discover/witness during exploration? (Comets, aurora borealis, lightening storms, ice geysers, list goes on and on...)
2) Adding more general space content? (eg: more variety of traffic around systems/stations).
3) Adding more missions types? Deeper missions?Tiered missions?(eg: 8 months on we still have take X to Y, and go to X and blow Y up. I was playing space games in the 90s with deeper missions.)
4) NPC wingmen. This alone could add a lovely new dynamic to the game. Add this to more interesting missions (eg: defend a convoy and you can tell your NPC wingman what to protect/attack, things get more varied).
5) Adding deeper NPC mechanics? (eg: Build up long standing relationships with NPCs and missions ensue).
6) Adding multi-player slots? (eg: yes, 8 months on, and we still can't create more than one CMDR)
7) Adding ship transportation mechanics? (eg: 8 months on we're still ferrying around our own craft?)
8) ...etc...

Undoubtably Powerplay took a sizeable development time. It's surely one of the largest developments we must have had dedicated to a feature in the game? And as mentioned, I suspect this notion frustrates players when many see so little of benefit added to the game by it (possibly the contrary in some areas), and consider what features are still on the TBD list.


Anyhow, can I suggest we don't take this thread any further off topic. I'd be happy to discuss it further in a PM or on a more appropriate thread - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=169171

 

[Winterwalker]

I agree, but personally I think the balancing of merits was by far the biggest issue with PP. If it had of released as it is now... I would have had far less issue with it.

Trouble is balancing, is also function of real life players (not testers) not simulation

So how about crew & passengers then?

Could be .. and +1 to a "colossal passenger announcement"! ..

Spoiler

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Obviously its relevance is a matter up for dispute, since the majority disagrees with you.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=169171


Apologies if the thread has been slightly derailed, I merely mentioned PP as an example of FD hyping up a feature that ended up being a big disappointment.

No, they disagree regarding do they play PP or not. It doesn't say anything about relevance, because they don't have insight how it will work in long term.

 

[Steve50]

Have to admit I'm quite dreading the reveal because the last two "major" additions have been the total opposite of what I want or am interested in. To use a silly sport term "three strikes and you're out Frontier".

That said, I am crossing my fingers and really hoping it's actually something great this time.

 

[WreckWren]

Since you obviously know the future like the back of your hand, care to fill us in on what this new announcement is?

Are you the only person in this future? Is that why specifically your opinion on something makes more of a difference to its relevance than its actual use by others?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Since you obviously know the future like the back of your hand, care to fill us in on what this new announcement is?

Are you the only person in this future? Is that why specifically your opinion on something makes more of a difference to its relevance than its actual use by others?

Because I have followed *actual* ED development for very long time. Fact people don't play PP today won't mean they won't play tomorrow, especially after improvements and additions - and vice versa. Of course, all of this is just my opinion, so you can ignore it anyway

PowerPlay has always been mostly 'this is feature I don't want, where's the other ones'. Doesn't invalidate it at all. It certainly needs to be improved to be more appealing.

 

[WreckWren]

This makes its initial reception better how?

As I've previously stated, my point is that it was hyped and advertised like a major feature, which it wasn't and isn't.

This thread is about what we think the announcement will be. I brought up PowerPlay's reception by the majority (not you specifically) as an example of how it could go wrong.

What exactly is your point? On topic, this time.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

This makes its initial reception better how?

As I've previously stated, my point is that it was hyped and advertised like a major feature, which it wasn't and isn't.

Initial reception wasn't favorable from lot of players, I don't try to deny it. I said long term perception matters more. Because it is major feature covering meta game (other elements include CG and minor faction gameplay).

This thread is about what we think the announcement will be. I brought up PowerPlay's reception by the majority (not you specifically) as an example of how it could go wrong.

What exactly is your point on topic?

Announcement is announcement. Some will like it. Some won't. If that will be first peak at PL, people will complain how core gameplay is not finished. If it will be something less, there will be others to complain about FD not showing expansions. And so on and so forth.

 

[WreckWren]

Initial reception wasn't favorable from lot of players, I don't try to deny it. I said long term perception matters more. Because it is major feature covering meta game (other elements include CG and minor faction gameplay).



Announcement is announcement. Some will like it. Some won't. If that will be first peak at PL, people will complain how core gameplay is not finished. If it will be something less, there will be others to complain about FD not showing expansions. And so on and so forth.

Oh of course people will complain either way, but I have a feeling that there will be far fewer dissatisfied people with a PL announcement than, say, PPV2 or something as trivial and (currently) irrelevant as that.


The fact that you say PP wasn't finished in terms of integration & scope upon release lends yet more backing to the sentiments that it shouldn't have been released when it was or in the state it was. If it were something completely different, maybe I and the other 81% of players who don't play it would have enjoyed it. Sadly, that isn't this reality.

 

[NeilF]

Because I have followed *actual* ED development for very long time. Fact people don't play PP today won't mean they won't play tomorrow, especially after improvements and additions - and vice versa. Of course, all of this is just my opinion, so you can ignore it anyway

PowerPlay has always been mostly 'this is feature I don't want, where's the other ones'. Doesn't invalidate it at all. It certainly needs to be improved to be more appealing.

Powerplay..

Pros:-
+ Adding dynamic changes to systems economics: The fact systems politics and economics ebb and flow and change? Great!
+ Putting some players at direct odd to each other: Creating some angst and conflict between players? Good!

Cons:-
- The entire assumption people care about the outcome of individuals systems, above their own agendas. I would argue most people don't care about the fate of obscure systems. They don't care if their Power has 99 systems or 98 in their coloured blob.
- Offering nothing more than the same simplistic-mini-games as have been in the game since release in a different guise.


While players are responsible for Powers decisions, I fear Powerplay will not work. Why? Because players don't really care enough...

While players are given little else to do for their powers to go but simplistic tasks, they really don't care much about anything else other their their own rewards.



As an example... When Powerplay first came out, Strike Zones were busy with PvP. I would go to them because I knew I could find regular fights against other players. I was actually losing CRs, and not getting any merits of note, but I would still go back because the gameplay reward was enough for me... Alas, Strike Zones are now full of tumble weed as too many players are simply grinding Agents at 30 merits a pop to get their salaries or modules...

If Powerplay lost the "board game" so Power make their own choices, and then Players could choose to help them by undertaking tasks/missions resulting in a regular CR payment, and loyalty/rank bonus too, and do this in something more akin to the existing Factions and BUlleting boards... Great! If these tasks/missions also included far more interesting things such as short term assault/defense missions, convoy escort/attack missions, stealth missions etc etc... All the better!

While the current mechanics remain in Powerplay, I fear it simply will never work, as it expects Players to do specific tasks in specific locations purely to help their Power in a specific system... But I don't think many players really care about this aspect of the game. If they could instead so something that rewards them, be it with CR or gameplay experiences, and that also helps their Power too, I think that would be mroe beneficial. But simply offering a mindless grind incentive/reward mechanic strangely will invoke little more than a mindless grind reaction from most players I'd suggest - Hence us having targets 10x beyond reached...




We're taking this thread off topic by the way, and I'm just as guilty of this... So I won't be making any more Powerplay posts here if I can contain myself

 

[NeilF]

Could be .. and +1 to a "colossal passenger announcement"! ..

Spoiler

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_QgiVlUsAEVXOs.jpg

To make that interesting surely the missions system would need a nice big improvement? ie: Certain passengers would need to invoke/result in other missions? Ideally we'd need more interesting/deeper NPCs such that we can build up a relationship with NPCs which dictate future missions etc?