PvP Gankers in Fleetcomm at Beagle Point

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LeKeno

LeKeno
jasonbarron said:
All I know is that if I'm going to spend any time on the DWEIII protecting them by helping to show how fleet defense should actually work, those guys are going to need a sea change in attitude.
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What would you have done differently?

I'm skeptical that a lesson in fleet defense is what the organizers needed the most.

A lot of the kills were done in situations where Defense would have done nothing to prevent that, e.g. ganks on planetary surface and to an extent ganks during mass jumps. The only way to avoid too much casualties is to not have these choke points in the first place. Or, have so many of them (places and times) that it would dilute the opportunity to a boring point. The downside being that it also dilute the fun for the regular participants.

Or, you know, the much easier and more fun option of setting up private groups with rules (e.g. no PvP allowed, no weapons allowed, no Interdictor allowed), a vetting process, on going checks (e.g. eject anyone with weapons), and the hope that folks who joined it would just have the courtesy of respecting these rules. There are only 2 obvious flaws here.

The first flaw is that there will always be folks who feel that they have to impede on other players because [insert reasons] despite the choice of a PG and rules. [Insert I can't understand phrase here]

The second flaw has been fixed with the most recent patch and with a good admin team and comms, it now makes this approach the most balanced way to run an event like this: minimizes casualties, maximizes the fun.
 
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Leper Messiah

Leper Messiah
Phisto Sobanii said:
Hit me up on Discord sometime and speak your mind. Phisto Sobanii#1883 is my tag.
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I don't even know what discord is.

Myrm said:
What is the difference between a ganker and a griefer? Or are they one and the same thing?
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I go by:
griefer (singular)
ganker (plural)

Wargfoot said:
Even the harshest PvP players here have expressed a distaste for joining a private group in order to intentionally break the rules.
Yes, there are some here that do that (or approve) but most do not find that acceptable.

I think the disagreement with you is largely their frustration with people constantly trying to change the nature of the game.
I think they're afraid that some new rule will end up breaking it - and to them it isn't worth the risk given the availability of solo/group play.

As hard as it may be to comprehend, your requests are viewed as a threat.
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The "nature of the game" is currently "lord of the flies"....that IMO is nothing for FD to be proud of IMO. I just find the choatic lack of structure mind boggling. Also visiting some the websites of these types with all the rules of no abuse etc...just laughable. Those types deserve to be ridiculed and PvPers who play by reasonable rules of behaviour should see my views as no threat.

Interstellar Overdrive said:
That is why they are issued escape pods :)
Only their credit balance is abused. Pride maybe.
This would also require measures to be taken to prevent abuse.

In any case, murder is de facto legal for members of the Pilots Federation.
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Murder of other PF members? once again genuinely curious
 

Leper Messiah

Leper Messiah
Wargfoot said:
I affirm your right to have an opinion about this matter and it is okay that it isn't the same as mine.

I'd also agree that if you're running around in Eravate whacking Sidewinders that you're very likely the sort of person whose company I wouldn't keep. (1) Seal clubbing in the sense of going after new players in your highly engineered ship is a very weak play-style. That aside, I have to part ways with you when you talk about attacking an inferior build because I don't think that is fair.

I say that is unfair because you're putting a great deal of responsibility upon the PK.

To meet your criteria:
He has to know that the other ship is an inferior build (can they do that?)
He'd have to know what constitutes an inferior build.
He'd have to know that the other player isn't highly skilled and enjoys challenging himself by using an inferior build.
He'd have to know the other player isn't setting a trap (a wing located a short jump away).
For this to work, the entire PK community would have to abide by unwritten rules - I doubt they'd agree on any of the points above.

What happens if Phisto, who murdered me using his Corvette, happens to be flying past me in an unengineered Sidewinder and is clean?
Can I kill him then or does his inferior build protect him?

I don't think it is unreasonable for players to do this math:
1: The other guy picked a PvP game. (dystopian world, no less)
2: The other guy selected a PvP mode.
3: The other guy is in a PvP hotspot.
4: The other guy is 5,000ly from a starter system (and therefore, presumably knows what he's doing).
5: Therefore, the other guy is open to the idea of being attacked.

^------ I don't think that is a crazy set of assumptions.

I think your idea of "not targeting weaker players" is honorable, I just don't see how a person can know the other player is weaker.
I think we have to stick with the obvious cues I present in my 5pt. list.
(Understand that whatever rules we develop for PvP that the lowest common denominator has to be able to understand and abide by them.)

I know when I go out into open I go with the mindset that I could be attacked at any time - by people much stronger than myself.
I like to have that available.










NOTES
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1: There is a big difference between trying it for a couple of nights and getting bored and the very special class of person that can do that for months on end.
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Good points and food for thought, maybe FD should add in some info to help PvPers make these decisions. Either way my opinions are no -ones but my own and will have no bearing on the direction of the game. It would be quite a complex system to provide a solution most would find ok. But at the mo I may be basing some opinions on incorrect assumptions, I am waiting for clarification.
 

LeKeno

LeKeno
Bigmaec said:
By the way, kicking you and others was also ****olish (to stay at my wording from my first post in this thread).
The correct way to do it would have been to wait IF anyone ganks in fleetcom and then kick them.
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Not a viable approach with the poorly designed kick feature (have to wait until someone logs out for it to take effect). But this has been fixed in the latest release.

But even with the better kick feature, HP and others known agitators getting kicked on principle is par for the course ;) A better option could have been to put them in their own PG. You can't have a long history of saying one thing and doing the opposite without losing everyone's trust.
 

Leper Messiah

Leper Messiah
CMDR M. Lehman said:
The military.
Major corporations.
Organized crime (any).
Major world religions.
Prominent families.
Political parties.
Upper echelons of government.
Video game forums.
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Apart from the Military and organised crime I don't think we're talking about the same "abuse" are we? And even then not sure murder has occured in the Military the person got away with it (with people knowing). So the Pilots fed is a criminal organisation?
 

Siobhan

Siobhan
Leper Messiah said:
Apart from the Military and organised crime I don't think we're talking about the same "abuse" are we? And even then not sure murder has occured in the Military the person got away with it (with people knowing). So the Pilots fed is a criminal organisation?
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It is at least a subversive organisation. It probably has too much control and influence to be considered criminal in any conventional sense... Call it rather, a rogue state.
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Interstellar Overdrive said:
That is why they are issued escape pods :)
Only their credit balance is abused. Pride maybe.
This would also require measures to be taken to prevent abuse.

In any case, murder is de facto legal for members of the Pilots Federation.
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It's not murder if no one dies.
It's not even attempted murder since all PF Cmdrs know that, or ought to.
 

bigity

bigity
gooddoc said:
They're the same style of muppets who in RL vandalise something that the County Council's refurbish for the community, just to get thier 'jollies off'.

They have that attitude in RL, why not be a Richard Cranium in a make believe game as well.
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This argument never gets old. Or any more sensical.
 

Leper Messiah

Leper Messiah
Phisto Sobanii said:
It's a great text and voice chat program that's become very popular. Lots of Elite: Dangerous communities use it. Check it out: https://discordapp.com/

You can contact me at this email too: cmdrphisto at gmail dot com
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In all honesty I can't be bothered although it may prove cathartic to vent. Not sure if what I'd say would get me arrested LOL I am THAT dark. eg have you read "The Dark" by James Herbert?
 

Leper Messiah

Leper Messiah
Siobhan said:
It is at least a subversive organisation. It probably has too much control and influence to be considered criminal in any conventional sense... Call it rather, a rogue state.
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Ok I suppose that makes some attitudes of resistance to changing some elements understandable and I'll have to adjust my thoughts on it.
 
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