Gankers vs ATR?

[McDark]

But the ultimate point here is real life analogies and comparisons are problematic foundation for building actual gameplay mechanics. Sure, they can provide the context and flavor for what you do but it's more important to make a fun game that's enjoyable to play.

I agree there. ED is billed as a futuristic space simulation. As such, you expect to have some level of believability. Pew pew shooty video games have their place, but I don't see ED as one of them. But there does have to be a balance so it's still fun to play. After all, if it were completely 'lifelike', I'm not sure your escape pod always making its way out of the carnage of a ship destruction is entirely believable.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Oh man, I can see the salt flowing from people than what you proposed is turned around. I would take my Cutter with 1% hull to the station and let it float into somebody, instant 1bil bill for them. Nobody goes by the speed limit and the ADC will get you exploded in busy stations. Seen it many times. So many fun ways to get salt. The hamster wheel in my head is spinning out of control.
Plus how does your proposal deal with BGS interactions or any other player-driven conflict. It seems to me you only play 1/16 of this inch deep game.

You still advocating for seal clubbing. How many Sidewinders can I blow up until I reach the value of a Cutter? They need some help and advise in the universe, not you in your Cutter. You should have gotten gud enough to have no issue with hostile player interactions. If not Git Gut.

As I said before @M00ka's proposal would be a good start and I would love to see something like that implemented. Everybody can play the role they want without major restrictions. You just need to mainly stay on your side of the coin until you put enough work in to change it around or get neutral. No easy flip-flopping for both sides. It would be equally rewarding to kill a CMDR in a high-sec system as running a high value trade run into an Anarchy system.

I fly by the speed limit or use get away jail from free card aka autodocker

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Of course. It's a role playing game. Play whatever role you like. That's ED's strength. I just think the way the game mechanics handles the psycho role is not quite right.

Though rp:ing psycho slayer should lead to harsh consequences. Unless you are doing that in anarchy systems.

 

[Just Paul]

I fly by the speed limit or use get away jail from free card aka autodocker

Try your autodocker to exit a busy station, I saw already more then 1 player blown up by the station for taking to long.
Or try to dock or exit an asteroid station station in the Cutter, no need for anybody else to interfere to see a nice explosion.
Explosions are nice, player explosions are nicer.

 

[M00ka]

Try your autodocker to exit a busy station, I saw already more then 1 player blown up by the station for taking to long.
Or try to dock or exit an asteroid station station in the Cutter, no need for anybody else to interfere to see a nice explosion.
Explosions are nice, player explosions are nicer.

Really, damn I wish you would have recorded it because well I have never seen a player blown up because of the DC, not once. I know, I know, the mortality rate for those that use a DC/ADC seems to be (according to some here) around 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% but with all those deaths, not one is ever captured in a video. Just seems a little strange to me but for all I know I have the only working ADCs in the game. Guess I am just bloody lucky

 

[d8veh]

I feel like that's a bandage. As I mentioned, I think that the real way to combat casual ganking is to turn the casual ganker into a career criminal. The game should see them as a criminal and treat them accordingly in secured space. Notoriety doesn't decay in the real world, nor should it in Elite. If you choose to be a pirate, Elite's universe should regard you as one. If you choose to be a cold killer, the same. Playing chicken with an ATR is one thing. Logging in each day to the consequences of your actions not only addresses the behavior, it sets the stage of real, reactive roleplaying. True criminals living on the outskirts of civilization. Dangerous neighborhoods. Safe havens. It's just so much better than what we have now, which is simple and ineffective response mechanisms that just can't be "improved" much.

There's nothing wrong with that, but you're making a simple solution into a difficult one. Using some simple logic, it shouldn't be difficult for the devs to figure out when a ganker has ganked someone. Maybe they could even pick it up from the reporting system. They then put a flag on that player so that he gets hassled by ATR in every instance for a period of playing time.

 

[d8veh]

High waking out and back is faster.

Unless they have FSD diruptors.

 

[Magic147147]

What about FSD Disruptor Disruptors?

 

[Bigmaec]

Unless they have FSD diruptors.

ATR have no fsd interrupts afaik.
Also good luck hitting a highly evasive medium target with one...

 

[Rubbernuke]

ATR have no fsd interrupts afaik.
Also good luck hitting a highly evasive medium target with one...

I think some pack Grom bombs, or suspect as much. However they are suspiciously good at spanking modules directly- although I could have been unlucky.

 

[Just Paul]

Really, damn I wish you would have recorded it because well I have never seen a player blown up because of the DC, not once. I know, I know, the mortality rate for those that use a DC/ADC seems to be (according to some here) around 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% but with all those deaths, not one is ever captured in a video. Just seems a little strange to me but for all I know I have the only working ADCs in the game. Guess I am just bloody lucky

Saw it at Jaques a few times. It's the only busy station around here. If somebody else is already there I have to wait around 5min for docking permission do to all the NPC Belugas. And of course they block each other going in and out.
One guy blew up twice in 2 days. The first time I was outside the station doing some Fa/off practice and heard the station shooting and some fireball with wreckage coming out of the slot. 5min later he comes back from the prison. The next day he got blown up inside the station, I guess his timer ran out. And you guessed right, 5min later he comes back from the prison.
If you park you ship at the right spot inside or outside the slot you can throw of the AI and they just wait until they get blown up.

Imagine them being Belugas and the same or more outside waiting to get in.

And asteroid bases are deathtraps for the AI flying T-9s, Clippers, and Cutters. Didn't see a T-10 yet but I assume it will die too.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I think some pack Grom bombs, or suspect as much. However they are suspiciously good at spanking modules directly- although I could have been unlucky.

From what I remember seeing and hearing they subtarget your FSD.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Try your autodocker to exit a busy station, I saw already more then 1 player blown up by the station for taking to long.
Or try to dock or exit an asteroid station station in the Cutter, no need for anybody else to interfere to see a nice explosion.
Explosions are nice, player explosions are nicer.

I can fly without autodocker. Its just convenience. Usually I do sit ready to take over immediately if some problems arise. I do not trust that gadget too much. I think those blown up by autodocker are ones who are either away from controls while machine does what it does, or flying paper ships. Cutter takes quite a lot of banging to walls before it destructs.

 

[Just Paul]

I only used it once for convenience during the witch head repair effort to land faster at the high-g planetary station. Let's say even if it always landed save, it sometimes made me question my choice to give it control. There I also first saw the issue with asteroid bases. It's not the wall banging what's dangerous, it's the station guns, that things are nasty. And once you really get stuck with the Cutter it's hard to get it free, even with landing gear toggling.
The problem is/was(?) what in an really busy station the npcs block each other going in and out, so you sit in the queue until your timer runs out and boom. I didn't saw it so much lately though, so maybe they made the AI smarter in this respect.

It's still fun to watch.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

At some point I just disregard queuing and fly out manually. Keeping speed under 100 meters second worst that can happen is fines. To me. Anyone else trying to occupy same space with flying football field coming to them at say 90 meters per second are going to be mightily sorry

 

[Krash]

At some point I just disregard queuing and fly out manually. Keeping speed under 100 meters second worst that can happen is fines. To me. Anyone else trying to occupy same space with flying football field coming to them at say 90 meters per second are going to be mightily sorry

Flying manual has its benefits. In the first 15 secs you can observe my response to NPCs blocking the gate.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Flying manual has its benefits. In the first 15 secs you can observe my response to NPCs blocking the gate.

Been there done that

 

[Bloodsign]

ATR is not intended for gankers, nor would it really deter them.

ATR is essentially an 'incentive' to stop murdering NPCs with the BGS. A ganker can hose an unwary pilot faster than any security can be alerted and arrive.

Meh, as someone who did a fair bit of ganking, I have to say that ATR did deter me. Mostly just because they were a pain, and the very idea of an unbeatable enemy is obnoxious as all get-out. I'm good enough that I can evade/escape ATR in all of my ganking builds, even after the annoying and inevitable shield generator destruction, but you really can't slug it out with them and win, in my experience. I have a couple builds where I could kill one or two in the wing before having to flee for my life.

When I say "deter" I guess I mean it made me do other things besides ganking if I knew ATR might get into the mix. In terms of saving the odd gankee if I committed to taking them out, no, ATR doesn't do much to help in those instances, as the good CMDR Rubbernuke and others have pointed out.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Meh, as someone who did a fair bit of ganking, I have to say that ATR did deter me. Mostly just because they were a pain, and the very idea of an unbeatable enemy is obnoxious as all get-out. I'm good enough that I can evade/escape ATR in all of my ganking builds, even after the annoying and inevitable shield generator destruction, but you really can't slug it out with them and win, in my experience. I have a couple builds where I could kill one or two in the wing before having to flee for my life.

When I say "deter" I guess I mean it made me do other things besides ganking if I knew ATR might get into the mix. In terms of saving the odd gankee if I committed to taking them out, no, ATR doesn't do much to help in those instances, as the good CMDR Rubbernuke and others have pointed out.

Its why I came up with the idea of persistent ATR that with skill you can dodge, if you are quick enough. You can still kill, but you have to be razor sharp and that elsewhere you have to hide in plain sight.

 

[Shir]

I'd be interested in finding out a build that can kill an ATR vessel. Probably lots of hull i presume. I tend to enjoy shield builds though and they are useless against ATR.

At least i'm consistently good at escaping, i know the timing rules pretty well by now, and have never died up to 2 billions bounty by now! It's really fun to push the limits..!