Modes Get off Solo/Private groups and onto Open play!

Jockey79

Jockey79
Stinja said:
So we do not need threads like this then?

OP / mods, care to close, Open is alive and healthy after all :cool:
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I do wish the GSPs would have a meeting and decided is open empty or not. That seems to be half the problem.

Then they need to decide what lies to stick to and we may get somewhere.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Jockey79 said:
I do wish the GSPs would have a meeting and decided is open empty or not. That seems to be half the problem.

Then they need to decide what lies to stick to and we may get somewhere.
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The issue seems to be that there are *any* players not playing in Open where they could not be shot at should the GaSPer so choose to do.
 

insanephoton

insanephoton
Jockey79 said:
I do wish the GSPs would have a meeting and decided is open empty or not. That seems to be half the problem.

Then they need to decide what lies to stick to and we may get somewhere.
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Schrodinger's Open mode, simultaneously bursting with life and empty. The superposition of these states collapses into one or the other when someone posts about the state of Open.
 

Mano d'Oro

Mano d'Oro
WAAAAAAAY too many pages to read through, but Sylveria nailed it a way back. Play in whatever mode you feel like, and don't let anybody tell you you're 'playing it wrong'... I'm in all three modes depending on my mood. For instance, if I'm focused on a specific task (taking modules to the RNGneers), I'll probably be in Solo as I don't want to be disturbed; also, if I'm not feeling chatty or particularly sociable! ;) This afternoon, I was helping my 16 year old nephew get the hang of the game (he's now out of the Sidey and into a Hauler, woo-hoo!), so we were in PG. Usually I'm in Open, but I rarely see anybody else out there; might have something to do with being on the newest platform, PS4...! :D

TLDR; you can complain about there being 3 different modes all you like, but IT'LL NEVER CHANGE. Nor should it. End of. :)
 

Mouse

Mouse
Sylveria said:
@OP Not quite going quite you planned is it?

The reality here is there are a HUGE number of players that play the game for their own reasons and they may or may not align with yours. For others reading this post, I apologize for the sheer length of it, but I'm really tired of having these same old debates with people and I'm covering a wide range of questions/answers that normally get covered in multi-page thread-noughts in advance. I've wrapped my own thoughts in a spoiler tag to minimize the "wall".

The Technical
Here's a bit of reality. FD created ED with P2P core networking, the BGS is tied into that, and ALL THREE MODES are tied into this as well. "Removing Solo/PG" to throw everyone into Open isn't going to happen because there's no central server system, and as of now, you can "block" using P2P. So to accomplish what you're asking, they would need to completely redo the entire base networking system to prevent people from blocking others on that level. Do you really think they're going to do that for just a (arguably "small") portion of their player base?

The Financial
Let's just posit a small theory, shall we? All of these tired arguments usually allege that there's a "huge" portion of players that wish for this change, and that if it doesn't happen there's going to be some sort of (DOOOOM!!!) "mass exodus" of players who will leave the game, and "FD will be losing potential income", yada yada. Now, bearing in mind all the people who have already bought this game, the amount of money that's been spent so far, and a change to base gameplay functionality (if it were to happen) what do you think the financial repercussions would be? Just affection ONE of any of the three modes would result in a MASS request of refunds... so let's talk actual numbers, shall we?

Mobius PvE was created to help facilitate players who did not want PvP but still wanted to play together online (Co-Op gameplay)
This Private Group has far exceeded the 40,000 player limit and additional "Private Groups" had to be created to facilitate the additional numbers...
Think about that for a minute, then multiply just that number by the base cost of this game, not including any LEP's, Backers, Horizons purchases or additional Store (paintjobs, etc.) content purchased.

Are you getting the picture yet?

Now keeping numbers in mind- let's stick to the financial aspects here. The PvE content included in this game is available to ALL three modes, regardless of PvE or PvP playstyle. If you removed any one of the three modes, that would still be the case, correct? Let's now think about doing the same with PvP content, which is ONLY available to Open mode. How much more money do you think FD spends in addition to what's already existing in the game to ADD more PvP content and accessibility to it? Think of people coding, maintaining the equipment that helps to facilitate networking, logistics, etc.

So, keeping in mind all the aforementioned numbers here's a question:
Do you think it would be more financially viable for them to strip all the PvE content and make it completely PvP, or do the reverse and make it only PvE?

Here's a couple more questions:
How many times have you seen the PvE Community opening threads and spewing posts about removing content from Open and making it exclusively accessible to Solo?
How many times have you seen the PvE Community throwing tantrums and stomping their feet in the Forums or on Reddit about "Leaving the game" if more PvE exclusive content doesn't get added to the game?

Are you getting the "bigger picture" yet?

(Granted, you'll see the occasional post from a PvE player who is "bored" or whatever, but that's to be expected in any game. You'll see those on any forum, because a developer can't make everyone happy, all the time.)

PvP Players
If you want Open to be "better" and want to draw more players into Open, I'd suggest you start banding together, organize some groups and "take out the trash", so it becomes a much cleaner place to enjoy the game. I'd love to see it become what it should have been originally- a huge expansive universe full of life, full of a wide range of players and game play, all doing different things and co-existing together. Pirates, Traders, Explorers, RP-er's, Miners, etc. People enjoying the game they love amongst others, with some being able to cooperatively play in PvP and some being able to cooperatively play in PvE, and some just doing their own thing on their own, without being bothered.

It's not going to be like that when you've got GSP's running around acting like psychopaths and there's (relatively) no consequence for them doing so. You want it to change? Then CHANGE it. You shouldn't need incentive, if your true motivation is "PvP combat", you've got all the incentive (and targets) you need. They're out there waiting for you. And if you keep laying into them, they'll eventually get tired of acting like they have been and quit or change their attitudes and start learning to co-exist.

"Wolf against wolf", not "wolf against sheep".

P.S. for those who care to read it (included in Spoiler tag to reduce the wall of text)
I only speak for myself- and have only done so. No one made me the "voice of Solo/PG's or PvE" here.

I really didn't want to start a "crusade" of PvE vs PvP or any of that. At first, I tried to reason with them... and that didn't work. They won't listen to reason. So now we have to defend our game-play styles because all they're doing with the negativity is driving away new customers because a few people didn't get what they wanted. And because they've got just as much of a right as "customers" to come into the forums and voice their opinions, there's no recourse but to continue to keep laying down reality. I/we don't get "paid" or "compensated" in ANY way, form or fashion for doing this, either. (neither does Jockey79, or any of the other more vocal players of the PvE community) I/we do it because I love the game and don't want to see it destroyed because of a minority few.

I see some in the PvP community spreading falsities, throwing tantrums, and trying their absolute damndest to get FD to change core functionality that affects ALL modes that would affect all players (PvE included) in order to facilitate their "Free For All Killfest" COD-in-space style gameplay. When throwing tantrums didn't work they started to spread toxicity into Reddit, the Official forums, Discord, and anywhere else they feel they'd garner support and be "heard".

Essentially the whole argument is "Remove Solo/PG's and give us our fish for our barrel or we'll burn down the game!!"

(That's it folks, that's the WHOLE strategy)

If you really want to see this game succeed, you should be very concerned. Make your own opinions known, because THEY certainly are.
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This... so This. If OP likes Open then great play in Open.... but quit trying to dictate to me where I am to play. I do not want to play with you or those who take enjoyment of a PVP environment. You know what... I will put it this way.... I am not mentally stable, shooting or being shot by other PEOPLE messes with my head. I would rather live my life happy and alive vs being so depressed I offed myself because other people want to be jerks and pvp with me when I have no desire or wish to. GO play the bloody game your way and leave me to Frakin play it mine. I am not nor ever will be your game play.
 

Musaab

Musaab
I think EVE Online handles the PVP vs PVE thing very well and would hope Elite goes in that direction. You can be killed anywhere, but there is a heavy incentive (through repercussions) not to do so in guarded zones, but as you head into anarchy zones, etc, you are more at risk. This is how it should be and then Solo Play can be done away with.
 

Mouse

Mouse
Musaab said:
I think EVE Online handles the PVP vs PVE thing very well and would hope Elite goes in that direction. You can be killed anywhere, but there is a heavy incentive (through repercussions) not to do so in guarded zones, but as you head into anarchy zones, etc, you are more at risk. This is how it should be and then Solo Play can be done away with.
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Eve lost that battle long ago... as there is no "heavy incentives" via repercussions. They fly around in cheap disposable ships and swarm people then oh look the security forces come in and blow them up for a loss of a few credits to them.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Musaab said:
I think EVE Online handles the PVP vs PVE thing very well and would hope Elite goes in that direction. You can be killed anywhere, but there is a heavy incentive (through repercussions) not to do so in guarded zones, but as you head into anarchy zones, etc, you are more at risk. This is how it should be and then Solo Play can be done away with.
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We can already be destroyed anywhere - what is lacking are meaningful consequences for doing so.

As to Solo being done away with - I very much doubt that Frontier would do that - as the existence of Solo was used in mitigation when Offline mode was cancelled before launch. Plus the fact that, from what one Dev has indicated, Frontier are well aware that the majority of players don't get involved in PvP (which is hardly surprising, given that direct PvP is optional in this game as has been rather obvious from the point that the first design information was published at the start of the Kickstarter, over five years ago).
 

Musaab

Musaab
I rarely ever got straight up ganked in EVE Online...but I was cautious, and flew with friends when I could. I would fly fast ships when alone. Or battlecruisers when necessary. It can be done. Just dismissing it because you fear PvP is not the right approach.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Musaab said:
I rarely ever got straight up ganked in EVE Online...but I was cautious, and flew with friends when I could. I would fly fast ships when alone. Or battlecruisers when necessary. It can be done. Just dismissing it because you fear PvP is not the right approach.
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Attributing "fear" to a choice of gameplay style is always rather amusing - given that we play this video game in the safety and comfort of our chosen gaming environment.

For my part, I don't find PvP to be "fun", either instigating or being targeted.

The PvP / PvE debate has raged for a long time now (far longer than this game has been around) - and Frontier chose to design their game to accommodate those that eschew PvP - and, in doing so, created a game where PvP does not dominate.

If Frontier *had* wanted to create an EVE-like game then they would have pitched a different design - they didn't do that and every player who either backed or bought the game did so with the three game modes, single shared galaxy state and mode mobility as fundamental features of the game's design.
 
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Musaab

Musaab
And in the same mode. The best solution is for there to be a big deterrent from attacking players in "civilized space" and merge the modes so we all play together :)
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Musaab said:
And in the same mode. The best solution is for there to be a big deterrent from attacking players in "civilized space" and merge the modes so we all play together :)
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That's one opinion. Other opinions vary, as does Frontier's quite clear design for this game.

Having a big deterrent for attacking players may encourage some players to play in Open (by there being less of a disincentive to do so due to the penalties for those attacking them) - that should happen regardless of the continued existence of the other two game modes.

We don't all want to play together - however the play-style of some requires there to be unwilling participants for them to prey on and they complain about the fact that Frontier gave each and every one of us options regarding how many players we play with.
 
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