Glaives (Hunter class ships) are overpowered and...

Maybe because most of the war progress is being done on Alert Systems where the Glaives do not appear and not in Invasion / Control were they do?



Be careful for what you wish for. FDev might give you something more than you have wished for.
A healer glaive probably, so you can't even out damage them, so we will have sudden death syndrome. And let's not forget super point defence and double shot frag cannons so you can't hit them with ax mc's and missiles.

Maybe we are doing it all wrong and the starter plink plink lasers are the only weapons that can kill them. Force everyone to start over again . Such a greeeat idea.
 
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Since we're on the subject, I would actually take some huge/S4 human AX weapons of some kind. Might actually make some sense to pick a Corvette over basically any other ship in AX then.

Ignoring personal preference, anyway - I still used one for AX when the stabilizer came out because it's the large ship I prefer most for combat. And it's not quite the god mode that it is for regular PvE, then.
Cutter is not better than the Corvette, but even worse. It's taken for one simple reason, it's fast.
 
Maybe we are doing it all wrong and the starter plink plink lasers are the only weapons that can kill them. Force everyone to start over again . Such a greeeat idea.
I've heard here that cold orbit is something the developers didn't know. I wish they would have told me how they were actually supposed to deal with them, and with the T10 release in mind. I'm just curious.
 
But this way they get to dangle shiny NeW cOnTeNt instead of just reverting it. Probably the best would have been just to make the stabilizers only work for human AX weapons.

If you look at the conventional weapons, there's the easy to use beams/multicannons and the intermediate skill frag cannons then there's the more effective but harder to use rails/plasma accelerators. It gives players a progression ladder based on skill rather than grind. (Then engineering came along and the grind became the gatekeeper for everything but PVP, but I digress.) The same was true in AX - gauss were the best, but they're the hardest to use. The shards when they were limited to 4x per ship were a good middle ground for intermediate players. Then they released the stabilizer and the meta became grind-locked instead of skill-locked with the 6x shard anaconda. I don't think that was what FDev was trying to do when they released those two components.
Or - what everyone said at the time, no stabilisers required at all … just remove the human AX weapons from the “experimental” category.

Then there’s be no “shardcondas” to worry about and no need for a magical “guardian weapon deletion field” whatsoever!
 
But this way they get to dangle shiny NeW cOnTeNt instead of just reverting it. Probably the best would have been just to make the stabilizers only work for human AX weapons.
To me, that measure might make sense today, but it would have been best to make Human AX Weapons out of the AX Limit since the start. Only Guardian Weapons should have had that limit.

And why? Because it never made any sense to me that such limitation should include Human AX Weapons. They seem to be normal Human Weapons prepared to handle a specific Thargoid Piercing / Burning Ammo.


If you look at the conventional weapons, there's the easy to use beams/multicannons and the intermediate skill frag cannons then there's the more effective but harder to use rails/plasma accelerators. It gives players a progression ladder based on skill rather than grind. (Then engineering came along and the grind became the gatekeeper for everything but PVP, but I digress.) The same was true in AX - gauss were the best, but they're the hardest to use. The shards when they were limited to 4x per ship were a good middle ground for intermediate players. Then they released the stabilizer and the meta became grind-locked instead of skill-locked with the 6x shard anaconda. I don't think that was what FDev was trying to do when they released those two components.
I don't disagree with what you are saying. But, regarding FDev's inclusion of the Weapon Stabilizers, it was made because of players' requests.
 
I've heard here that cold orbit is something the developers didn't know. I wish they would have told me how they were actually supposed to deal with them, and with the T10 release in mind. I'm just curious.
What I wonder is why do you, or anyone, think that you "have to deal with Cold Orbit" ?

It is a valid technique invented by resourceful and imaginative CMDRs. Why is there a need to destroy it ?
 
Or - what everyone said at the time, no stabilisers required at all … just remove the human AX weapons from the “experimental” category.

Then there’s be no “shardcondas” to worry about and no need for a magical “guardian weapon deletion field” whatsoever!
I am in total agreement. That would have been far simpler for FDev to implement and we would have not had the 6x Shard / Plasma / Gauss power creep and the need to neutralize it.
 
I've heard here that cold orbit is something the developers didn't know. I wish they would have told me how they were actually supposed to deal with them, and with the T10 release in mind. I'm just curious.

What I wonder is why do you, or anyone, think that you "have to deal with Cold Orbit" ?

I think with „them“ he meant the Interceptors, so how they were supposed to be dealt with according to the developer‘s original idea, instead of cold orbiting. At least this is something that I am sometimes curious of. Could be that they were originally just designed for wings only, at least the higher tier ones, and cold orbiting accidently evolved as a solo fight technique. Does anyone remember who came up with it first ?🤔
 
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Or - what everyone said at the time, no stabilisers required at all … just remove the human AX weapons from the “experimental” category.

Then there’s be no “shardcondas” to worry about and no need for a magical “guardian weapon deletion field” whatsoever!

I am in total agreement. That would have been far simpler for FDev to implement and we would have not had the 6x Shard / Plasma / Gauss power creep and the need to neutralize it.

I also agree. They should've removed the limitation on human AX weapons and never introduced the weapon stabilizers. Also, if they didn't want us to grind for those OP Salvation weapons (which required a lot of mats for every single weapon), then don't make them.

I was really happy with my Challenger that mounted 4 Salvation Plasmas or Salvation Shard Cannons. I would be equally happy with a Krait, Anaconda, etc. being able to mount a full load of enhanced AX weapons. Instead, they messed both up... and introduced stupid lore in the process.

Weapon stabilizer needed for the stress of AX weapons? What?! Yeah, Guardian weapons already put stress on the ship and a power sucking module doesn't really help that. As for human AX weapons they're just missiles/multicannons with some anti-thargoid toxin mixed in. How is that putting strain on our ships?

I'm really getting more and more disgusted with the whole Thargoid war. The stupid weapon decisions, the constant grind for new tech, and the dev threat of "if you don't take part, we will let the Thargoid AI burn the entire bubble to the ground." So much for blazing your own trail...
 
I think with „them“ he meant the Interceptors, so how they were to be supposed to be dealt with according to the developer‘s original idea, instead of cold orbiting. At least this is something that I am sometimes curious of. Could be that they were originally just designed for wings only, at least the higher tier ones, and cold orbiting accidently evolved as a solo fight technique. Does anyone remember who came up with it first ?🤔
I believe you are correct. FDev's initial idea was that Interceptors should only be dealt with in wings. IIRC, that ship sailed even before Guardian Weapons came, when there was no magic 99% resistance to Human Weapons.
 
Every class of ship should have access to AX weapons and tech, it should not bw open to big ships only, heck Elite 1 we bested Thargoids with a Cobra and a pulse laser and liked it. Now ya need a year of gameplay and a degree in astrophysics to get started on the grind.

Fdev bring back the fun when the game was a shoot fest rather than a grind train, early ED was combat for combat sake now its grind to get anywhere.
 
What I wonder is why do you, or anyone, think that you "have to deal with Cold Orbit" ?

It is a valid technique invented by resourceful and imaginative CMDRs. Why is there a need to destroy it ?
I didn't write that. I just think that Thargoids are not so stupid and learn from their mistakes. It's stupid to evolve at their own peril.
 
What I wonder is why do you, or anyone, think that you "have to deal with Cold Orbit" ?

It is a valid technique invented by resourceful and imaginative CMDRs. Why is there a need to destroy it ?
As you might recall me saying earlier... it always felt like a glitch to me, considering the cold orbit meta is, when done right, basically an "off" switch to an interceptor... especially when contextualised by human ships (afaik) not having the same issues... though I ack that's a highly problematic position.

All that aside i would argue that "the Thargoids" would deal with Cold Orbiting because history says they would. Thargoids are meant to adapt rapidly... why wouldn't they evolve and adapt to new wildly successful tactics?
 
As you might recall me saying earlier... it always felt like a glitch to me, considering the cold orbit meta is, when done right, basically an "off" switch to an interceptor...
Have you ever tried it? It is not an "off" switch for Interceptors.

CMDRs using Cold Orbit are still vulnerable to damage by the Interceptor. It is just that they receive less of it, because the interceptor has a harder time locking on the CMDR's ship. Any slip in trajectory, any moment with heat above 20%, any distance below 1000m and the CMDR will get hit by the canon. Even when you have the technique optimized and make no mistakes, you always get some damage. It is not a "I win button"...


especially when contextualised by human ships (afaik) not having the same issues... though I ack that's a highly problematic position.
I don't understand the reference to Human Ships: "not having the same issues..."


All that aside i would argue that "the Thargoids" would deal with Cold Orbiting because history says they would. Thargoids are meant to adapt rapidly... why wouldn't they evolve and adapt to new wildly successful tactics?
It seems logical. I have no problem with that.

But, once again, I do have a problem with the current implementation of Glaives. The previously mentioned anything-but-the-kitchen-sink lazy approach to gameplay that brought us the "Jack of ALL Trades. Master of ALL." consequences.
 
Have you ever tried it? It is not an "off" switch for Interceptors.
I have, but not to fight, because i can't fire for pants with Gauss. I used it for research limpets well before the war, until i got sick of the random nature of it
CMDRs using Cold Orbit are still vulnerable to damage by the Interceptor. It is just that they receive less of it, because the interceptor has a harder time locking on the CMDR's ship. Any slip in trajectory, any moment with heat above 20%, any distance below 1000m and the CMDR will get hit by the canon. Even when you have the technique optimized and make no mistakes, you always get some damage. It is not a "I win button"...
I didn't call it an i win button... i called it an off button.
  • the swarm doesn't keep up
  • the lightning can't reach
  • the speed is manageable.

The only thing left is the main cannon, whose accuracy is neutered when cold. It circumvents most of the features and weaponry of a thargoid.

I latch onto that definition in particular because it's the one used by certain people who promoted cold orbiting, to declare shard-ganking an exploit.

What does that matter? The argument about shards was, basically, that it was an "off" button in a comparable way.

Now I'm not going to cast stones today in either direction. My point is it doesn't matter how easy it hard something is to do... it shouldn't make it immune to the introduction of something that challenges that meta... and cold orbiting is, up until we got glaives, the unquestionable meta.

I don't understand the reference to Human Ships: "not having the same issues..."
Unless something has changed recently, cold- running is useless against human NPCs.
It seems logical. I have no problem with that.

But, once again, I do have a problem with the current implementation of Glaives. The previously mentioned anything-but-the-kitchen-sink lazy approach to gameplay that brought us the "Jack of ALL Trades. Master of ALL." consequences.
But we've gone over this. The glaive is generally fine (in particular the anti guardian field) because it's readily countered with AX weapons, and we seem to agree that there shouldn't be one meta to rule them all.
 
But we've gone over this. The glaive is generally fine (in particular the anti guardian field) because it's readily countered with AX weapons, and we seem to agree that there shouldn't be one meta to rule them all.

The anti guardian field is a terrible implementation. Sure, it’s fine if you look at it from just a player vs glaive perspective, but because Thargoid combat requires such specific specializations, the glaive ruins entire combat zones. Once it shows up it negates player skill and just reduces it to an RNG event by making the equipment required to kill higher-end interceptors completely inoperable.

Cold orbit might be cheesy but this magic aura is just as bad if not worse. Cold orbiting at least requires some skill to maintain.

They could have had the interceptors adapt in other ways to counter it, such as using special abilities randomly during the combat, not just scripted on rails where everyone knows exactly what they’ll be doing at the exact time. Maybe even using their swarms so that when the CMDR’s ship goes cold, the swarm will disperse rather than bunch up in an effort to track down the ship to better target it. These would be more interesting solutions but I guess it’s too much effort.
 
I have, but not to fight, because i can't fire for pants with Gauss. I used it for research limpets well before the war, until i got sick of the random nature of it

I didn't call it an i win button... i called it an off button.
  • the swarm doesn't keep up
  • the lightning can't reach
  • the speed is manageable.

The only thing left is the main cannon, whose accuracy is neutered when cold. It circumvents most of the features and weaponry of a thargoid.
Cold Orbiting is difficult and - as I understand it - requires the CMDR to choose a specific control scheme - relative mouse or HOTAS? Pretty far from an “off button” in my book, more a complex procedure that takes time and dedication to learn and has to be maintained for the duration of the fight.

I can’t do it! The best I can do is stay cold and continuously thrust downward, which allows me to avoid most of the main cannon fire but the Swarm and Scouts couldn’t give two hoots how cold I am and will still do damage.

But I don’t resent other people who can being able to do so: it’s an impressive skill.

As for Glaives, nothing will convince me that them having a passive ability to delete weapons - requiring no skill whatsoever on their part to use - is a positive addition to the game.
 
I have, but not to fight, because i can't fire for pants with Gauss.
But Cold Orbiting is not limited to Gauss use. I also use Cold Orbiting with Mod Plasmas, Mod Shards and Human AX weapons.

It is a flying technique, independent of the type of weapon chosen and even of weapon use at all.


I used it for research limpets well before the war, until i got sick of the random nature of it
So, you used it without using weapons, which is in line with what I have referred above.

But what do you mean with "random nature of it" ?


I didn't call it an i win button... i called it an off button.
  • the swarm doesn't keep up
Actually it kind of does.

It still sees the CMDR, it still attacks and the CMDR has to steer accordingly, to avoid most of the Swarm projectiles. They do fail more often because of the low heat + FA OFF + lateral + vertical thrusting, but they do still hit the ship.


  • the lightning can't reach
It does reach the ship.

It works exactly like when using FA ON and no Cold Orbit. Only distance to Interceptor counts. Lower than 800m and you get zapped. No difference whatsoever. I know because I got zapped, several times, for not keeping enough distance while using FA OFF + Cold Orbit.


  • the speed is manageable.
Now I am confused. What do you mean with that ?

I believe that, unless the throttle isn't working, speed and distance to Interceptor is always manageable, independent of what flying technique one is using. FA ON or FA OFF, Cold Orbing or not.


The only thing left is the main cannon, whose accuracy is neutered when cold. It circumvents most of the features and weaponry of a thargoid.
As I replied to your quotations above, not the only thing left and not as clear cut as you claim.

The main canon might be less effective because of the low temperature making the weapon lock harder, but bellow 1000m, even at 0% temperature the CMDR will get hit. Everytime I do not control the distance to keep the interceptor at more than 1000m I get blasted with canon fire.

But answering directly to your observation, a series of vulnerabilities was observed by attentive and intelligent CMDRs. Then a technique to exploit those vulnerabilities was elaborated. As it would have happened in any war. It makes perfect sense. I see absolutely no problem with that.


I latch onto that definition in particular because it's the one used by certain people who promoted cold orbiting, to declare shard-ganking an exploit.
That claim, of shard-ganking being an exploit, is just silly.

What Armed Forces would not explore the possibility of destroying your opponent faster, by being able to use overwhelming firepower ? None.

The more ways to defeat your opponent, the better.


What does that matter? The argument about shards was, basically, that it was an "off" button in a comparable way.
Only for Cyclops. You couldn't do that easily to the other Interceptors.

And, since you can only use them in Large ships, that are incapable of Cold Orbiting, the damage taken, while blasting the Interceptors, was very significant. That is why 6x Mod Shard / 6x Mod Plasmas ships were only ever used in Planetary AX CZs. Put those gib-boats in a Space / Starport / Outpost AX CZs and the swarms would annihilate them pretty fast.


Now I'm not going to cast stones today in either direction. My point is it doesn't matter how easy it hard something is to do... it shouldn't make it immune to the introduction of something that challenges that meta... and cold orbiting is, up until we got glaives, the unquestionable meta.
I am not disagreeing with that, but, as I have repeated countless times before, it is not the innovation of a Thargoid ship that can bypass the Cold Orbiting or catch fast ships, that is the basis for my observations and recommendations.

What makes the Glaives unbalanced, is the way they became a lazy cop-out, to the previously mentioned problems, by making them have all the Thargoid abilities, at the same time, without having weaknesses. The biggest imbalance in them, is having all of these 3 abilities working simultaneously:
  1. Guardian Degeneration Field;
  2. FSD Reboot / Containment Missiles;
  3. Mass Lock Factor of 20.
Let us elaborate:

1 - Stops any pure Guardian Weapons Build to effectively fight back. In a AX CZ, after less than 60seconds, High Waking or landing and waiting at the station, are the only solutions:
  • Meta Chieftain is gone, replaced by a 2x C3 EN AX MC + 1x C2 EN AX Missiles build that will only kill Scouts, Glaives and, with a lot of effort, the occasional Cyclops;
  • Challenger 3x Mod Shard / 3x Mod Plasma / 3x Gauss is no longer viable. Replaced by a 1x C3 EN AX MCs + 3x EN AX Missiles build that will struggle with Scouts, hold its own against an isolated Glaive and will be limited against Cyclopes;
  • All Medium ships, other than Kraits, are severely gimped for solo play;
  • 6x Shards / Plasmas gib-boats are dead. Large Ship Hybrid builds will survive only in Planetary AX CZs, with a lot of damage, lack of effectiveness and the frequent run for cover at the station.
2 - Almost all of the ships (other than very fast Racer or Maelstrom Explorers) that suffer an Hyper / Interdiction and are hit by a FSD Missile will have to fight because Low or High Wake will not be possible:
  • Guardian weapon builds will be unable to fight after 60 seconds, so their only option is High Wake and that might not be possible;
  • Fast + Cold Evac / Cargo will have to immediately use ECM + Silent Running + Heatsinks and be piloted by a skilled CMDR to deflect the FSD Missile and to gain enough separation to Low Wake or High Wake;
  • Slow Large Evac / Cargo ships will have to use ECM constantly, while tanking damage, until being able to Low or High Wake.
3 - All ships will be unable to Low Wake, other than Anaconda, Cutter, Corvette and T-10:
  • Small and very fast Racer or Maelstrom Explorer ship builds will be able to escape. All other small ships will be unable to jump, will not outrun the Glaive and will lack the fire power to defeat it;
  • No Medium ships can escape the Glaives. Other than Kraits, most Medium Hybrid Combat Builds will struggle to destroy a Glaive. The others, even escaping the FSD Missile, will be unable to Low Wake, will have to High Wake or be destroyed.
All of this together, compounds a risky situation in to an almost impossible situation, for a lot of CMDRs and a lot of ship builds.

It is the conjunction of all of these abilities, together, that I say it is unbalanced and counterproductive to the game.


Unless something has changed recently, cold-running is useless against human NPCs.
It has less effect than against Interceptors. But Human ships are much easier to destroy.


But we've gone over this. The glaive is generally fine (in particular the anti guardian field) because it's readily countered with AX weapons, and we seem to agree that there shouldn't be one meta to rule them all.
I am in total disagreement with the yellow highlighted part. It has the same 2-3% damage / second degeneration effect that is encountered in the Maelstrom systems. It is waaaay overdone and overly powerful for a single ship.

If it remains, it should be lowered in effect.



EDIT: Typos and Added Info...
 
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They could have had the interceptors adapt in other ways to counter it, such as using special abilities randomly during the combat, not just scripted on rails where everyone knows exactly what they’ll be doing at the exact time.
On the contrary, "randomly used" abilities are a far worse situation, and are way more derided.
If they are random and overall ineffective, then they may as well not exist.
If they are random and actually pose a threat to whether a commander is effective or not, then you can expect a contingent of people complaining that, despite all their application of skill, whether they win or not comes down to a flip of a coin.

There's a time and a place for random. This is not it.
Maybe even using their swarms so that when the CMDR’s ship goes cold, the swarm will disperse rather than bunch up in an effort to track down the ship to better target it. These would be more interesting solutions but I guess it’s too much effort.
So, can you come up with an alternative that can:
- Threaten the cold-orbit meta; and
-
But Cold Orbiting is not limited to Gauss use. I also use Cold Orbiting with Mod Plasmas, Mod Shards and Human AX weapons.

It is a flying technique, independent of the type of weapon chosen and even of weapon use at all.
OK, so we can fit out to do cold orbit with AX weapons and render the biggest threat posed by the Glaive useless.

This is normally when people complain that this is an ineffective fit against larger interceptors. Again... there should be no "god fit" that just deals with everything.
So, you used it without using weapons, which is in line with what I have referred above.

But what do you mean with "random nature of it" ?
I meant random nature of tissue sampling, sorry, realise that wasn't clear.
Actually it kind of does.

It still sees the CMDR, it still attacks and the CMDR has to steer accordingly, to avoid most of the Swarm projectiles. They do fail more often because of the low heat + FA OFF + lateral + vertical thrusting, but they do still hit the ship.
Most demonstrations I see, the swarm is rarely a concern.
It does reach the ship.

It works exactly like when using FA ON and no Cold Orbit. Only distance to Interceptor counts. Lower than 800m and you get zapped. No difference whatsoever. I know because I got zapped, several times, for not keeping enough distance while using FA OFF + Cold Orbit.
Almost all cold-orbiting I've seen, you'll operate between 1000-3000m. The only exception to maintaining that range is against multiple interceptors.
Now I am confused. What do you mean with that ?

I believe that, unless the throttle isn't working, speed and distance to Interceptor is always manageable, independent of what flying technique one is using. FA ON or FA OFF, Cold Orbing or not.
I mean exactly what you wrote. It's manageable.
As I replied to your quotations above, not the only thing left and not as clear cut as you claim.

The main canon might be less effective because of the low temperature making the weapon lock harder, but bellow 1000m, even at 0% temperature the CMDR will get hit. Everytime I do not control the distance to keep the interceptor at more than 1000m I get blasted with canon fire.
Meanwhile, it's entirely possible to disengage long enough to do synthesize heatsinks, chuck a repair limpet etc. without taking any damage. See why I'm skeptical?
But answering directly to your observation, a series of vulnerabilities was observed by attentive and intelligent CMDRs. Then a technique to exploit those vulnerabilities was elaborated. As it would have happened in any war. It makes perfect sense. I see absolutely no problem with that.
And so too would Thargoids, which i'll get to at a later point.[1]
That claim, of shard-ganking being an exploit, is just silly.

What Armed Forces would not explore the possibility of destroying your opponent faster, by being able to use overwhelming firepower ? None.

The more ways to defeat your opponent, the better.
Tell that key proponents of the cold-orbit meta I guess 🤷‍♀️ I think it's silly as well.
Only for Cyclops. You couldn't do that easily to the other Interceptors.

And, since you can only use them in Large ships, that are incapable of Cold Orbiting, the damage taken, while blasting the Interceptors, was very significant. That is why 6x Mod Shard / 6x Mod Plasmas ships were only ever used in Planetary AX CZs. Put those gib-boats in a Space / Starport / Outpost AX CZs and the swarms would annihilate them pretty fast.
Sounds like, to take a page out of the logic book your using, bigger interceptors are OP and need a nerf, since there's a combination of features in their design that put a weapon type that people have invested time in to obtain, which is rendered useless.
I am not disagreeing with that, but, as I have repeated countless times before, it is not the innovation of a Thargoid ship that can bypass the Cold Orbiting or catch fast ships, that is the basis for my observations and recommendations.
Coming back to [1], what's your expectation then?

That FD implement a the full Skynet experience and create an AI that can organically evolve and innovate constantly to everything going on? Obviously that's hyperbolic because that's totally unreasonable, but genuinely, what are you expecting?
That some interceptors simply moved faster
What makes the Glaives unbalanced, is the way they became a lazy cop-out, to the previously mentioned problems, by making them have all the Thargoid abilities, at the same time, without having weaknesses. The biggest imbalance in them, is having all of these 3 abilities working simultaneously:
  1. Guardian Degeneration Field;
  2. FSD Reboot / Containment Missiles;
  3. Mass Lock Factor of 20.
Let us elaborate:

1 - Stops any pure Guardian Weapons Build to effectively fight back. In a AX CZ, after less than 60seconds, High Waking or landing and waiting at the station, are the only solutions:
  • Meta Chieftain is gone, replaced by a 2x C3 EN AX MC + 1x C2 EN AX Missiles build that will only kill Scouts, Glaives and, with a lot of effort, the occasional Cyclops;
  • Challenger 3x Mod Shard / 3x Mod Plasma / 3x Gauss is no longer viable. Replaced by a 1x C3 EN AX MCs + 3x EN AX Missiles build that will struggle with Scouts, hold its own against an isolated Glaive and will be limited against Cyclopes;
  • All Medium ships, other than Kraits, are severely gimped for solo play;
  • 6x Shards / Plasmas gib-boats are dead. Large Ship Hybrid builds will survive only in Planetary AX CZs, with a lot of damage, lack of effectiveness and the frequent run for cover at the station.
Got no problems with Guardian builds being rendered useless. What if FD instead just released a type of Thargoid immune to guardian damage instead? Like they did with the whole Thargoid

What you know I agree with is that they should probably be taken out of AX CZs, with the exception of very high ones (Or arguably, since AX weapons are very effective against Glaives, maybe they only belong in low CZs alongside Cyclops and a rare basilisk)
2 - Almost all of the ships (other than very fast Racer or Maelstrom Explorers) that suffer an Hyper / Interdiction and are hit by a FSD Missile will have to fight because Low or High Wake will not be possible:
  • Guardian weapon builds will be unable to fight after 60 seconds, so their only option is High Wake and that might not be possible;
  • Fast + Cold Evac / Cargo will have to immediately use ECM + Silent Running + Heatsinks and be piloted by a skilled CMDR to deflect the FSD Missile and to gain enough separation to Low Wake or High Wake;
  • Slow Large Evac / Cargo ships will have to use ECM constantly, while tanking damage, until being able to Low or High Wake.
3 - All ships will be unable to Low Wake, other than Anaconda, Cutter, Corvette and T-10:
  • Small and very fast Racer or Maelstrom Explorer ship builds will be able to escape. All other small ships will be unable to jump, will not outrun the Glaive and will lack the fire power to defeat it;
  • No Medium ships can escape the Glaives. Other than Kraits, most Medium Hybrid Combat Builds will struggle to destroy a Glaive. The others, even escaping the FSD Missile, will be unable to Low Wake, will have to High Wake or be destroyed.
As I've suggested before, I would suggest a reduction in their masslock effect would resolve this. They're meant to be high-speed tackle ships, they can't also be dense warships (I'm looking at you, Anaconda...)... lowered enough to allow medium-size ships would suffice, since small ships have very little survivability in, say, the maelstrom.

Having sat there tanking one of way too long because of the masslock effect... once the first FSD disruptor is shaken off, you're very likely to get away with a low wake if you can low wake. Their damage isn't that large (but their lightning will rip shields, obviously) and a relatively light tank on a rescue ship would be enough.
All of this together, compounds a risky situation in to an almost impossible situation, for a lot of CMDRs and a lot of ship builds.

It is the conjunction of all of these abilities, together, that I say it is unbalanced and counterproductive to the game.
TBH, I'm only hearing one build type affected here... ones that use purely guardian weapons. But hey, that's probably going to change at some point. This is just the bit that puts us on the back foot like in the previous iterations of the Thargoid story.
I am in total disagreement with the yellow highlighted part. It has the same 2-3% damage / second degeneration effect that is encountered in the Maelstrom systems. It is waaaay overdone and overly powerful for a single ship.

If it remains, it should be lowered in effect.
There's an ongoing narrative at play here. Guardian Tech was the big winner for humans pre-war, and then we went all-in with Azimuth on their genocidal bent underpinned by a substantial amount of Guardian Tech. So when the proverbial pooch got screwed, things flipped and our biggest investment was rendered fairly useless. This effect becoming portable on Glaives/Orthrus is just a continuation of that narrative. For it to be muted would, imo, run counter to that narrative, but also do nothing to challenge the meta, at the core of which is Guardian weapons. Nerfing the damage of the field (even from a glaive) is just an exercise in finding the sweet spot where players can still kill it with no change to their current builds... i.e just rendering it useless and not producing any noticeable effect in the game

Which is why my suggestions are:
  • Reduce the masslock; to facilitate easier escape, particularly for non-com craft
  • Remove appearance of the Glaive in all but the most dangerous where there's multiple target types; the Glaive is only OP when present in-concert with other threats where a Guardian fit is highly preferred.

It gives non-com ships a chance, which a pure guardian fit would become when encountering one... in the same way that for other threats like Hydras and Medusas, an AX-fit ship basically has no choice but to flee as well. (incidental note: Funny nobody has ever complained about that one...)

Glaives are meant to be a "pursue and disable" craft, not a frontline warzone fighter, so the fact it's in CZs is a bit incongruent. I guess in that regard, it's also a bit chonkier than I'd expect, so maybe a nerf to it's HP or Armour. But that's it.

Cold Orbiting is difficult and - as I understand it - requires the CMDR to choose a specific control scheme - relative mouse or HOTAS? Pretty far from an “off button” in my book, more a complex procedure that takes time and dedication to learn and has to be maintained for the duration of the fight.
The mere fact that it relies on a specific control scheme, instead of being achievable with just any control scheme, screams of major bug, poor design, or outright exploit, to me 🤷‍♀️

It's this idolisation and sanctification of the cold orbit meta that's the problem here, not the Glaive.

EDIT: Oh, I should probably clarify.
But I don’t resent other people who can being able to do so: it’s an impressive skill.

As for Glaives, nothing will convince me that them having a passive ability to delete weapons - requiring no skill whatsoever on their part to use - is a positive addition to the game.
I don't resent those who can do it... I resent those who could do it and actively tried to shut down things like shard-ganking, who are now pearl-clutching about their precious tactic being threatened. Just to be clear on that one.
 
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