Goodbye Open til SCB issue is sorted

I hit my deploy landing gear instead of hardpoints, not a good start..so I can't even boost to turn..doh! Anyway, down to 1 ring on my shields

we start duelling and it's clear that I'm in the more agile ship..I'm getting on him first in every turn, he's got more chaff than the entire USAF, but no probs..just turned off targetting..got his shields down to 1 ring again and again and again

He gives up the dogfight tactic (good strategy..I'm not blaming the cmdr at all!) then starts reversing pummelling my shields, I catch him he boosts away rinse and repeat. Now he has 2 rings as I watch his shields regenerate for the 15th time and I'm down to critical..running out of ammo, I run. Leaving with a bad taste in my mouth, given that we both know who should have won that duel!




You literally sound salty af dude, stop making excuses, your opponent adapted and that includes his choice to run with SCBs. You lost on preparation and execution, never stop adapting or you will lose.Now I'm not saying SCBs arent annoying and not all that fun to deal with but you cant complain about them, use them, and then complain when you still lose lol
 
But there are penalties. They use a lot of energy when powered, produce a lot of heat when used, and until powered up, which can be distracting in the middle of combat, are a lot of dead weight.

They are generally better than nothing, if you anticipate being attacked, and want to keep your shields up, but there are trade-offs.

Yes, those are drawbacks, but they are insignificant compared to the drawbacks of not having SCB's.

1. The power consumption is only significant if you're only using one bank. And using 1 bank isn't an issue. The issue is when you can take several banks at no extra cost in energy consumption.

2. The heat generated isn't a major drawback either, because the heat damage you sustain from using a cell(if any) is nothing compared to the damage you take if your shield go down. Taking a dozen SCB'S worth of heat damage is still far better than letting your shields collapse once.

3. Its very easy to switch banks in combat. If you are going to be using several you can even set up a hot key or voice command to do it quickly.

4. They are heavy, but this isn't much of an issue for large ships, which are the ones that benefit the most from them.

This is both illogical (why would you stick supplemental power for your shields further from a shield generator in a weapon hardpoint?) and not conducive FD's designs for SCBs, which go beyond trading.

They don't make much sense as anything other than internal modules.

I think they work well as hardpoints based on my interpretation of ED's lore(shields are plasma contained by a magnetic field, SCB's provide emergency power to run shipboard systems while the reactor pumps plasma into the shield) but as there's no concrete evidence on how they actually work it's not really an issue unless FD decides to clarify for us.

How would SCB's being hardpoint items make them "only for traders"? I don't see how it would. I don't want them to only be used by traders, but I think having them as hardpoints would force players to strike a reasonable balance between defence and firepower.

It would also be the easiest fix code wise, which is one of the reasons I suggested it. But other options do exist. Making all shield cells consume power constantly, or forcing them all to be powered on at once would also work, for example.
 
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<snip, by the way bypassing the filter is frowned upon, just saying.>http://<font color="#BBBBBB"><span ...ps://youtu.be/Mv2ipNQhg8Y?t=174</span></font>

It doesn't seem at all weird to you that the only source of burst damage we have that can out-pace them is ramming by multiple ships of roughly equal size? It doesn't seem at all unfortunate to you that it only reinforces the importance of outnumbering your opponent, since the side that has more ships by extension has more SCBs and can ram more? It doesn't seem strange that your weapon choice is, outside of some useless outliers, largely academic because your shield is your primary weapon?

Like I said, SCBs simply add so much durability to a ship that at that point what you really need is a bigger ship.
 
A lot of anti SCB people are arguing game balance. That's fine but it's much easier to argue gameplay in this matter.

OP's post: "He gives up the dogfight tactic (good strategy..I'm not blaming the cmdr at all!) then starts reversing pummelling my shields"

SCBs cause people to give up on dogfighting! Reversing and firing is boring as hell and should not be a valid strategy, SCBs are one of the things that make it valid.

It's not about equipment vs skill, it's not about if the better player needs SCBs to win. It's about the fact that I didn't buy this game to engage in 15 minute slug fests every time I get pirated.

I brought into this game back when it was about medium-fast paced dogfighting. That's what I paid and played for, not tank matches. Sure some of you newer players might love these tank matches, but that was not what we kickstarted this game for.
 
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my lord more shield cell banks does not mean more life I AM SORRY BUT SCB's ARE USELESS IF OUT DAMAGE THE RECHARGE RATE! TAKE I HAVE already shown this in my last post drop his shields and no more banking! in the python video my self and my pal 4x rammed him and he lost his shield before he could recharge them! MY LORD he prolly had over 30x shield banks but guess what the fight was over faster than you could say SCB! INSTEAD BIT-IN about the op scb's work around them??? they have weakness its called high burst damage. Work an enemy player to 2 rings then burst them poof there goes his shields Why? Because takes like 3-5 seconds to activate the banks burst him and ram him and bye bye miss python shields we drove our clippers into the shields but the shields was DRY!

TAKE NOTE I HAVE GIVEN THE VIDEO OF THIS GLORIOUS FEAT! Some reason I cannot set the time soooo jump to 2:54 We line up our attacks
[COLOR=#BBBBBB][FONT=Roboto]https://youtu.be/Mv2ipNQhg8Y?t=174[/FONT][/COLOR]

I don't even know what to make of this.
If I'm reading your post right, you have no problem with SCB's because you've found that continually ramming someone is a way to erase the shield quickly?

I watched the video from 2:54 per your instruction and your 'glorious feat' just looks like a really shi**ty awful game. So Elite dogfighting has moved from WW2 style planes in space to a game of speed ramming to avoid SCB activations? Just awful.
And this is not a shot at you because you're playing how the game mechanics dictate you need to play currently. But is this the game you really want?

While they are getting rid of SCBs I think they also need to put a rule in place that opposing shields repel each other with little drawback rather than the first rule of any fight being "Accelerate to ramming speed!"
 
I still haven't seen a good answer to:
What issue are Shield Cell Banks solving?

Why are they in the game?
A combat fitted ship is already going to have an advantage against non-combat ships.
Combat ships facing each other shouldn't be about who has the most SCBs, right?

What was wrong with the game when they weren't there?
If we all woke up tomorrow and Thebraben has pressed his magic button and deleted them, how would the gameplay suffer?

I guess you wouldn't be near invincible in conflict zone and extraction sites and ship bulkheads and armour may start to matter more?
 
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Winning != killing, especially for a trader. Winning == selling your trade goods for profit. Escaping a pirate is winning the encounter. That's all you need out of your trader. Personally I don't feel T9s should be fielded without escort because of how vulnerable they are. But hey, that's just me, someone who doesn't like going to the insurance screen and is willing to do something about it.


Then all you need is boost and scoot. Point taken...and that is all that I will ever do. And that is all anyone should do! Thanks for the information. Glad no one wants to be able to shock anyone with possible builds...or cause some pain to those that think they have an easy mark.

- - - Updated - - -

I still haven't seen a good answer to:
What issue are Shield Cell Banks solving?

Why are they in the game?
A combat fitted ship is already going to have an advantage against non-combat ships.
Combat ships facing each other shouldn't be about who has the most SCBs, right?

What was wrong with the game when they weren't there?
If we all woke up tomorrow and Thebraben has pressed his magic button and deleted them, how would the gameplay suffer?

I guess you wouldn't be near invincible in conflict zone and extraction sites and ship bulkheads and armour may start to matter more?


It allows for fights to last vastly longer...or pushes the meta into a remove the SCB's faster than they can be used. That's about all I see.
 
Couldn't have said it any better. More politely possibly, but definetely not more precisely ;)

Oh I could have been more polite, I am tired of people asking for game mechanics to be changed simple because they either don't understand them or they're too incompetent to deal with them.
 
Oh I could have been more polite, I am tired of people asking for game mechanics to be changed simple because they either don't understand them or they're too incompetent to deal with them.

I can deal with them. That's not the issue.

The issue is it makes fights a lot more bland and indecisive ruining the beautiful ww2 dog fighting style they had carefully made before SCBs. And inb4 "Maybe this isn't the game fore you." it was the game for me before the added SCBs, and I paid my money for that game. Not this one.

One day they will remove or change them and then you'll thank me, trust me. It was fantastic dogfighting among the beta.
 
I can deal with them. That's not the issue.

The issue is it makes fights a lot more bland and indecisive ruining the beautiful ww2 dog fighting style they had carefully made before SCBs. And inb4 "Maybe this isn't the game fore you." it was the game for me before the added SCBs, and I paid my money for that game. Not this one.

One day they will remove or change them and then you'll thank me, trust me. It was fantastic dogfighting among the beta.

Not when you got interdicted by cowards in wings only interested in lone CMDR's it wasn't.

I like SCB's, it gives me a fighting chance against said cowards and I have no problem counter acting them.
 
That's fine but it's much easier to argue gameplay in this matter.

Indeed.

I'm not necessarily pro-SCB as I am anti-poor-arguments-against-SCBs-often-by-people-who-don't-have-much-experience-with-what-they-are-criticizing.

There is little doubt that SCBs can dramatically increase time-to-kill unless tactics that would not otherwise be necessary are used to work around them. This is not necessarily the case, and SCBs aren't the only thing that can do this, but if this increased TTK is a problem from one's perspective, it is a vastly better platform to base one's arguments on than something like 'balance'.

Still, even increased TTK isn't universal. SCBs didn't really increase my endurance in combat against other CMDRs either. Without SCBs, I tended to make quick hit-and-run attacks, kite my opponents to bore them into leaving or making mistakes, or force them to expend all of their ammo at ranges they weren't likely to land hits.

I can recall several occasions where I was in very protracted combats against people before SCBs were commonly used. The reason for this are my goals in combat, not the tools at my disposal. I'm fighting to destroy my opponent's ship, or failing that make sure my own ship is not destroyed. I do not care about dogfighting and I do not cater to the desires of my foes.

Some examples...

Kiting a Viper CMDR that interdicted me until he tries to leave, at which point I shoot him in the back:
[video=youtube;tY3xuv54s3o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY3xuv54s3o[/video]

Pulling the reverski on a suspiciously durable stealth Sidewinder for several minutes:
[video=youtube;aNeGXLsKGqc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNeGXLsKGqc[/video]

The last three minutes of a twelve minute fight where I mostly fly around another CMDR till he does something excessively stupid and gets himself blown up:
[video=youtube;4_VQkRQzPaU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_VQkRQzPaU[/video]
My opponent did have SCBs in this last one, but I not, nor were my opponent's SBCs a significant factor.

SCBs allow me a little more margin for error, and my typical encounter length, at least against comparable ships, has actually decreased since they started to become prevalent. My tactics and skills have evolved to where I am more confident in my abilities, and more willing to dive into the fray, but if SCBs disappeared, I would probably adopt a much more cautious approach to combat which would result in vastly slower paced battles...or I'd just use a stealth ship that can take at least as much of a beating as most SCB "tanks".

SCBs cause people to give up on dogfighting! Reversing and firing is boring as hell and should not be a valid strategy, SCBs are one of the things that make it valid.

Reversing and firing is a way to keep a firing solution on faster or more nimble enemy, and/or force that enemy to move pips to ENG in order to overtake you. If something is susceptible to the reverski, it's susceptible with or without SCBs.

SCBs didn't really change how much I 'dogfight'. I tend to do whatever will, in my judgement, result in me taking the least amount of damage possible in exchange for the damage I am able to deliver.

What issue are Shield Cell Banks solving?

Morbad being an obnoxious opponent who won't hold still to let you shoot him.

Why are they in the game?

I don't really know why they were added and I strongly opposed their introduction at the time.

Combat ships facing each other shouldn't be about who has the most SCBs, right?

Unless both pilots are idiots, it almost never is.

What was wrong with the game when they weren't there?

Nothing. Well, nothing that was solved by SCBs.

If we all woke up tomorrow and Thebraben has pressed his magic button and deleted them, how would the gameplay suffer?

Everything since late Beta 2 has been introduced and balanced under the assumption of SCBs.

Just remove SCBs and my stealth clipper will single-handedly destroy whole wings of CMDR Pythons until everyone slaps on reflective armor and fills every internal compartment with hull reinforcers and every utility slot with nothing but heatsinks.

Downtime between combat encounters with large vessels will become more extreme as the only way to recharge shields faster than 1MJ/s is to burn through SCBs.

Basically, a large chunk of combat and outfitting would need to be reworked because the game has been operating under the assumption of SCB = true since October 2014.

One day they will remove or change them and then you'll thank me, trust me. It was fantastic dogfighting among the beta.

In Beta 1 I had a quad cannon Viper that would zoom in, pop off a few hits, boost, fa off and empty nigh unlimited shells while flying 500m/s backwards...if my opponent survived the first pass.

Or, I'd slap on four missile racks, leave FA off, and spam seekers at people from 5km away ensuring I'd almost never be subject to counter attack.

I'm not sure the sort of 'dogfighting' you seem to long for was ever a wise thing to do.
 
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I am in general agreement with the OP.
SCB's are a serious game issue. At the very least you should be allowed only one of certain types of modules
You probably could argue you should only be allowed one of each of :-
1). SCB's
2) Shield boosters
3) Chaff
4) ECM
5) Point defence (this might need a slight nerf anyway)
6) If I've any missed you think should be added, sorry :)
.
Basically any module that provides capability to 'cheat' on the fly.
This will make for a more rounded loadout and mean that like OP, you don't come up against a player with infinite 'lives'.
You should be able to stand a chance against any ship of same size/capability as your own.
.
Really I think SCB's should be scrapped altogether!
.
But to OP it's not really a game breaker is it? Just a rage quit annoyance ;)
 
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Not when you got interdicted by cowards in wings only interested in lone CMDR's it wasn't.

I like SCB's, it gives me a fighting chance against said cowards and I have no problem counter acting them.

A different problem requires a different fix.

SCBs affects fair and unfair fights alike. You just want an effect that affects unfair fights, an extra traders trick perhaps. NPC wing mates or a more aggressive police force would be a good examples of such a fix. But ruining everyone's fights to help the lone wolf is not the way to go.
 
A different problem requires a different fix.

SCBs affects fair and unfair fights alike. You just want an effect that affects unfair fights, an extra traders trick perhaps. NPC wing mates or a more aggressive police force would be a good examples of such a fix. But ruining everyone's fights to help the lone wolf is not the way to go.

It doesn't even ruin the fight in wings. If you've got any sort of clue what you're doing you'll outfit the ships to compliment each other. So one ship will be designed to reduced shields faster than the Pilot can possibly activate the SCB's and the other will be designed to destroy modules just as fast.

Asking for nerfs to suit an outdated strategy is silly, develop new strategies.
 
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If you want WW2 dog fighting, go and play War Thunder...

Another stupid answer...i start to think that SCB are here for the pleasure of little griefers fanboys. Judging by the quality of replies of the proSCB people,if i would be Braben i'd delete Scb from game instantly, and start to clean the galaxy from commanders Overpowered...maybe they'll learn what the word 'skill' means
 
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