Basically, with PvP, who wins? the best pilot or the ship with the most internal compartments?..the game mechanic is truly awful in this respect, but, as I said..roll on 1.4.
The person who brought more friends
Basically, with PvP, who wins? the best pilot or the ship with the most internal compartments?..the game mechanic is truly awful in this respect, but, as I said..roll on 1.4.
<SCBs pile up praise>
This proves to me you are among the anti-SCB folks who are losing PvP fights due to lack of skill, and blaming SCBs. Someone who has spent the time and effort learning the system and the ways around it will completely roll you and it will probably take them less than twenty seconds to do so. Your 'successful SCB strategy' will not save you.I meant in PVP. When using SCBs in PvE players just curb stomp the AI regardless of strategy.
In PvP the most successful strategy is for the bigger ship to just full reverse and keep firing on target as it doesn't care about return fire because of SCBs. Hence, the slugfest you may keep hearing about.
In ours. The tendency has been toward faster maneuverable ships instead of heavy boats of mass destuction for long, destroyer class was literally an anti-heavy ship weapon and is nowaday so efficient that almost no heavy capital ships are built other than carriers, dreadnought almost doesn't exist since long, and the last battleships in the world where decomissioned in 1990. Same goes for intermediate heavy like cruiser and battlecruiser. Frigates and Destroyer own the sea now.
I'm sorry the game isn't as you envisioned it. There is no ship in the game that can stay in the blind spot of the most basic boosted FAOff turn or two. This is what the reality is. All other things equal, sidewinders will not be destroying farraguts, eagles will not be killing pythons, haulers will not be beating clippers, etc. Again, this is what the reality is. To say otherwise is a misinterpretation of reality.In the reality where speed and agility scale directly inversely to size, and you don't end up with an Eagle almost as slow as Python.
This proves to me you are among the anti-SCB folks who are losing PvP fights due to lack of skill, and blaming SCBs. Someone who has spent the time and effort learning the system and the ways around it will completely roll you and it will probably take them less than twenty seconds to do so. Your 'successful SCB strategy' will not save you.
Someone who has spent the time and effort learning the system and the ways around it will completely roll you and it will probably take them less than twenty seconds to do so.
I know this for a fact because he says that reverse is the most successful PvP strategy.Wow! This is one of the most rude post I read in a long time. You're assuming he's losing his PvP fights because lack of skills? How do you know that for a fact?
To continue in the same stupid path, you sound like someone who is stacking tons of SCBs to win all his PvP fights!
Yes, someone like you who learned how to find ways around the system by stacking as much SCBs as possible. You know, you sound like the one who lacks skills...
Frag cannons, rails, PAs, even beams against smaller ships.Now I'm curious. What does that strategy consist in?
Frag cannons, rails, PAs, even beams against smaller ships.
EdiT:
I couldn't find a video of an actual duel, but I did find a video that illustrates some of the potential:
https://youtu.be/02jPpec4SMc?t=11m
I must say, I agree with you most of the time, but on this subject, you are very much seeing things from only one point of view: exclusive pvper. Even more specialised: wing pvper.
A few days ago, as I was saying that I'd rather switch to solo for CGs than having to bother to deal with continuous streams of interdictions from pirates, you dismissed the argument and said that I wasn't even trying, coming there in a unprepared ship. Remember?
Ok, tell me, then: how does a single trader who wants to make a living -and therefore has to use at least a few module slots for, say, cargo holds- can deal with a full wing of buffed up pythons, FDLs and such, weaponised to the teeth and carrying SCBs in such amounts that they may contemplate starting a career in trading those themselves.
-he can't run away. (if he's not too slow, the multiple interdictions will ensure he's screwed anyway)
-he can't fight. Not only a single ship in that wing is far more shielded and armed than he is, but SCBs pile up ensures that there's no chance a shield would even be threatened in the pack.
SCBs are making this even worse. The way they are implemented make it so that they are useless to traders as they use precious module slots, and completely overused by fighters since they are pretty much all they need. And this is only from a trader perspective.
As far as fighting goes, I can't help but yawn whenever I see a fight that will revolve around who got the most SCBs. It makes people lazy, fights boring, and actually, logoffskys are becoming irrelevant since most of those dull turn-shoot-SCB-repeat excuses of a fight ends up with the less SCB stacked ship chickening out once its last pill has to be used. This part about fighting is only my opinion. The one about traders vs pirates in open is a fact.
Now tell me how to use multicannons, pulse lasers, burst lasers, seeker missiles, dumbfire missiles, torpedoes, cannons or mines to beat SCBs. Or should we just remove all of those from the game.
In PvP the most successful strategy is for the bigger ship to just full reverse and keep firing on target as it doesn't care about return fire because of SCBs. Hence, the slugfest you may keep hearing about.
Not to mention PDTs, Hull Packs, AFMs, Armor and ECMs.
So that's what... 12+ different types of module and equipment that your one module is making redundant. Granted many of them have their own issues but we can't see and fix the shadows those issues cast while they are all under the shadow of SCBs.
Wow! This is one of the most rude post I read in a long time. You're assuming he's losing his PvP fights because lack of skills? How do you know that for a fact?
To continue in the same stupid path, you sound like someone who is stacking tons of SCBs to win all his PvP fights!
Yes, someone like you who learned how to find ways around the system by stacking as much SCBs as possible. You know, you sound like the one who lacks skills...
- SCBs are a buffer for SYS power, no longer requiring ammo.
- After purchasing or turning on an SCB, it needs to charge its internal capacitator from SYS.
- When that capacitator is full, the SCB can be fired at will, depleting its entire charge.
- You can have multiple SCBs, and they will behave like chaff, i.e. not firing together, but sequentially. (You could press the SCB key binding in quick succession to fire multiple SCBs almost simultaneously, of course, but you wouldn't need to deal with fire groups just to prevent them from going all off at once.)
- Firing an SCB has the same effect as it does now, with one major change: they also work when the shields are down, spending their stored power to speed up the shield reinitialization.
- When you toggle an SCB off, it immediately loses its charge.
- When multiple SCBs are depleted, they recharge sequentially, starting with the weakest or strongest one (not sure which way around it would be better).
- SCB recharge rate depends on class and rating, so that generally, SCBs of the same rating recharge at the same speed between all classes, but of course draining more from SYS the higher class. In other words, a C2 SCB and a C4 SCB all take the same time to regenerate (provided sufficient SYS power), but the C4 SCB drains SYS more during that time, because it also stores a bigger charge.
- The amount of power an SCB stores is equal to what it can put into the shields, and not necessarily equal to a full SYS bar (it could be less or more, depending on the sizes and ratings of the two modules).
Now please hear me out, for here comes my reasoning and some of the consequences I hope/expect such an implementation would have:
- If you want to use multipe SCBs, you need to keep them powered. The option remains, but removes the awkward module juggling while at the same time turning their passive power draw into a meaningful consideration, not something to just shrug off at the press of the "OFF" button.
- SCBs become more of a once-in-a-while tool instead of something to be spammed non-stop, due to their single-charge nature, you won't be able to fire many dozens in succession, but will have to wait for them to recharge.
- If you have multiple SCBs, you now have complete ad-hoc control how many fire. Each press of the SCB button activates the strongest charged SCB without any need to deal with extra fire groups just to manage the SCBs.
- It is now an option to not spend an SCB before the shields are down, but do a gamble whether the opponent will get through the shields at all, or will do much hull damage afterwards (remember, 1.4 will address power plant sniping), and if you lose that gamble, the SCB doesn't turn into dead weight, but remains a tool to speed up recovery.
- There is the distinct possibility that, due to their regenerative, ammo-less nature, that SCBs might now provide a real solution to the problem of long passive shield regeneration, because they can short-circuit the 1MJ/s passive regeneration by sending a large chunk of energy into the shields, previously drawn from SYS. Therefore, indirectly, they also serve the purpose of speeding up regenerating between fights by speeding up the effective rate of SYS->shields energy transfer. Using them in this manner also provides an interesting trade-off: having your SCBs depleted between two engagements, you won't have them all recharged in the next fight already, and you will need to keep pips in SYS if you want them to regenerate while you are fighting.
- That "SCBs empty, immediately head back to rearm" moment is gone, too. They are now a tool both for emergency and sustain, actually increasing their overall utility in a much more flexible way.
- It is conceivable that there could be equivalent devices for ENG and WEP, that store extra energy for these capacitators in exactly the same manner. WEP and SYS cell banks could even provide for a real trade-off, and combat ships could come wit a mixed loadout of various types of cell banks, while traders might prefer, for example, only ENG and SYS cell banks. (Please note that I am against the idea of a universal cell bank, precisely because that would eliminate the need to think through your loadout and what type of cell bank you want to bring into battle.)
- The entire notion of "shield potions" is replaced with a flexible module that integrates into other ship functions (power management).
Right now, big ships aren't invulnerable to wings...unless handled very wisely by the wing as a whole, they are already a liability. If they lose their largest advantage...the ability to absorb huge amounts of damage...they lose any utility that would justify the rebuy cost they would be far more likely to face.
I'll self-quote from the other thread, because I don't think the other thread has enough visibility so far. I have been thinking about SCBs some more, and I have an idea for how they could be redesigned to address excessive SCB spamming and slow passive shield regeneration simultaneously, while still preserving the idea that a bigger ship can stack SCBs for greater effect than an smaller ship:
As well thought-out as your suggestion may sound on the first glance, it has a serious flaw:
Normal SCBs have limited charges, your's dont.
- If the system you described is strong enough to keep shields up under heavy fire, it will be possible to keep shields up indefinetely, which would be even worse than now.
- If your SCBs don't have the potential to keep the shields up under fire, then they would be useless from the start.
The #1 balancing factor for my SCB proposal would be the speed at which SCB refill themselves. This would need to be slow enough that even a Python stacked with SCB won't be able to fire them indefinitely.
That's what I mean... if they don't charge fast enough to keep shields up for more than their initial use, then what's the point?
They are impossible to balance... they would be either overpowerd or useless. Knowing how FD used to balance things in the past, chances are, they will be useless. Better to stick with the current system, that's at least predictable.
Erm nope, they wouldn't be useless. If, for example, an SCB took 5 minute to recharge, that would still mean if you have 5 SCBs, you'd still have on average 1 shot per minute, but you could blow them all rapidly and then have to wait 5 minutes for the first one to become available again. My idea is to specifically prevent the deadlock where both sides are spamming SCBs endlessly, while allowing to increase you SCB power by stacking multiple of them, if you have the room and power in your ship.
Fair enough, but the "deadlock" you are mentioning exists only in 1v1 PvP and even there only under certain circumstances. More often than not, good players can break through the shield-cell barrage. Your suggestion is extremely biased towards duel style PvP and completely neglects wing combat.