Griefer at Altair, Solo Orbiter station, INSIDE the station griefing...

[Arcanii]

Huh - now that I think about it, I might have been a victim to this as well at a different system.

I had 4 Point Defense Turrets, so when a missile was fired, the turrets go nuts to knock it out. Of course, they miss a lot and if this is done inside a station the station would immediately target you as a threat. No chance. I opened a ticket against my event thinking the station was quirky. It would be nice if the station was a bit less 'p***ed off' and 'finger on the trigger' in general. Every time I turn around the station is waxing someone.

Either have to turn off the pd turrets, or remove them... it would be nice to have a full safety as it seems the only way to retract point defense is via the modules menu.

I think this is one of those unexpected things.

 

[Herewego]

You can try to make things idiot proof all you like, but nature always provides a bigger idiot...

so true and the best option is to smack the Idiot very hard

 

[aeshec]

Resolution: Permanently close griefer's account, sell off her/his assets, distribute among victims.

There should be zero tolerance for this. Indecently, a perfect reason for the other victims who didn't come to the forum to post that this has happened to them to never play in open again as they will never see this thread. Griefers will paint the entire PvP playerbase as bad players just as they do in every other game. The main group that should be outraged... is anyone passionate about PvP.

Griefers != PvP'rs

 

[StuPer]

So having read the forums for ages before I got the game towards the end of Beta, then seeing the usual set of issues that plague multiplayer games. That being there will always be children (physically and mentally) whose sole aim in such games is to spoil the fun of other players, I decided to take advantage of the wonderful Solo mechanic to gear up. Don't get me wrong I don't mind a bit of piracy, thats part of the game, but simply finding ways to grief players isn't. In the real world these people would face legal consequences, here they get a paltry fine and then are free to continue griefing.
To all those suffering I can report a few things;
1) Its amusing when they try and ram a well shielded Python in the station (think fly versus car windshield)
2) I was also subject to the drop mine/fire missile to activate players point defence exploit, thankfully again a well shielded Python can get out of the station (boosted as I exited) and into the clear without using a shield cell.

Hopefully FD will come down hard on these players AND close the exploits. A nice ban to cool their heels would be in order imo.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

-- Deleted --

 

[Dissentient]

If you're a programmer with several years experience, then I want to work where you work. It sounds wonderful. This game was developed very quickly on a very small budget, and like it or not the real world has a notable effect on theory/ideals.

I'm impressed that you think every programmer would have thought of it. Once again I want to work where you work as you've clearly never worked with anything but the best of the best.

I'm an IT student focusing on programming, and I developed a game as a project (in a small team, where we had two artists and a designer). I am also interested in game design (not in any professional way), so I know some of its basic principles.

If I were told to program station behavior questions like "what happens when someone tries to dock while being wanted" would immediately come to my mind, because as a programmer, I need to make system work in all possible scenarios so that there are no cases with undefined behavior. It's not some high-level stuff, it's basics.
As a programmer, I am not qualified to decide what happens in any particular case, so if I'm not provided with that information, I would go and ask about it.

It's entirely possible that the string of events leading up to this little trick could have been programmed by entirely different people. Docking mechanic by one guy, wanted mechanic by another, PDS behaviour by a third, and station aggression by another. Depending on CVS setup and coding methodologies used at Frontier, there may not have even been a way for each of those different programmers to see what one another was doing.

There's a thing called 'abstraction'. They do not need to know what others are doing. This particular program is with design, not programming. It's not a bug, it's an oversight in decision-making, and it's designer's job to make decisions about how the game works.

I can't see where it's stated this was discovered months ago....just see a link to a two day old thread. Help me out with a link? If it was ticketed way back when then it should have been fixed by now no question.

Which is funny because some of the guys from my corp discovered this "exploit" back in beta 2 while trying to torpedo an anaconda's cargo hatch.

 

[J.M.Braehe]

Not an excuse not to try.

Man... All I see you doing is complaining, and trolling.... Quit sowing dissent for no reason but to fulfill your own need to flame FD. They built the game, MANY OF US (I'm assuming you arent in that number with the way you're incessantly complaining instead of taking "ownership" of the problem, as any good tester would) tested the game for them, and while a few may have found and ticketed the issue, it either wasn't high enough priority to squash, or is more complicated than your and my "armchair knowledge of games development" can explain away.

I'm not defending the exploit's existence, but I am 100% against your manner of addressing its existence.



To the OP, I'm sorry you got hit by a true griefer, and I sincerely hope you report him in-game... I would also suggest using Shadowplay, or OBS to keep a recording buffer going, that way if any other issues like this occur, you also have video evidence of what was going on when the problem/exploit occurred, and can upload it to youtube (unlisted) and provide a link to it within any further tickets/reports you submit.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

A game designer should clearly state how mechanics should work, including border cases like this one. If I was a programmer who was implementing this code and weren't told how this should work, I would go to the designer and ask, because programmers shouldn't make those decisions.

What is clear is that you are not a developer. Same goes for everyone else decrying how they can have let an exploit like this into the game.

When you know something about software development you would be a little more forgiving i would think.

Same goes for those blaming QA. QA are never quite as devious as the dedicated exploiters.

 

[DimGook]

When you start programming in the real world you'll find that

1) no one's going to give you clear cut requirements like in school
2) you will never produce 100% correct code given resource constraints (unless the code is really trivial) and
3) most useful abstractions leak. if one doesn't it's either trivial or way too "thick".

 

[Dissentient]

What is clear is that you are not a developer.

Well, are you?

 

[NettiWelho]

The fixes would however be rather quick to implement.

1. NPC does not respond agressively to point defense damage.
2. Becoming wanted / committing crimes revokes docking permissions.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Well, are you?

See my signature

And i also work for a software development company (not a dev there though, more of a consultant/trainer) .

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2. Becoming wanted / committing crimes revokes docking permissions.

Erm, then a new mechanism would be needed to clear wanted statuses... how you would implement that?

 

[NettiWelho]

Erm, then a new mechanism would be needed to clear wanted statuses... how you would implement that?

Why would you need a new mechanism? I am not suggesting making it impossible to get docking permission while wanted but simply revoking any open permissions upon new crimes.

 

[Guyperson]

Erm, then a new mechanism would be needed to clear wanted statuses... how you would implement that?

Doesn't need to be that complicated. You already get your docking permission suspended if you loiter, so it's not like you couldn't have your docking permission revoked completely if you've done something that has the station actually open fire at you.

 

[Rivka]

I'm an IT student focusing on programming.....

Ahh, the joys of being a college student, where you know everything, and the answer is right there in the book!

Out in the real world of coding, you have multiple people, in multiple teams, working on different modules that all plug in to hopefully make a working game. Unlike a small academic team where you can just grab your partner and go "Hey, about that code you wrote...", you can't just do that in an active dev shop. Jim is working on a docking subroutine, Bob is working on Physics, Janet is handling NPC aggression, all of them reporting to different team leads, who report to different design heads, who maybe might collide up near the top with a senior product manager.

This entire exploit is simply a side effect of complex systems colliding. You catch it in targeted playtesting. Targeted playtesting is expensive, and Frontier isn't exactly an EA sized company brimming with cash. Stuff like this will slip through, and the best you can hope for is a quick catch during live and an easy to build patch.

 

[shrinkshooter]

Well, are you?

From the last four pages I've read here, I'd say you're being overly critical, unreasonable, and a tad bit ignorant. And I definitely get the feeling you're intentionally trying to be edgy here and play devil's advocate just to get responses.

You have an absurd expectation that the devs/designers should think of everything, because you claim it's an obvious oversight. Oh, no wait, no it's not, it's actually "brilliant" that a player discovered and utilized this, implying it's not obvious. Then there's your claim that there wasn't enough testing even though testing has been going on for about a year, and it didn't become an issue (at least on the forums) until a few days back. And even when you mention someone found this out a few months ago, that's still the testing working.

The only legit criticism you could have is that they haven't fixed it yet. Reasons for that could vary widely, and there are certainly plenty of tickets that went totally ignored from past versions. But you have this incredibly absurd concept that in a development studio everyone knows everything that's going on pertinent to their job and every tiny detail and that nothing should slip through the cracks. All your posts in this thread showcase that you have idealized how a studio should function and expect it to be like that in reality. That's why others claim it's clear you're not a dev.

The greatest part about all this is that even if you're totally right about everything (and your first post does highlight ancient criticisms about how flags are handled in the game, but it's not cut and dry), none of this matters. You're just here to argue. And complain (so you can argue). Your point in all this is that FD was, at least in some regards, stupidly incompetent. Fine, if we give that point to you, then what? Nothing. That was your only point.

Unless I'm wrong here: aside from FD being bad at their jobs to some degree, you have anything else to add? If not, there's no point in continuing this discussion with the others in this thread, because you're just arguing that you're right about whether FD is bad at their jobs, an argument that has no affect on anything and serves no real purpose.

I'm an IT student focusing on programming, and I developed a game as a project (in a small team, where we had two artists and a designer).

Christ, that explains everything.

Graduate, get a job at a large studio that isn't reliant on communication between only three people, and then come back to this thread years later and read your words. I'm sure it will be enlightening.

 

[Lanatir]

See my signature

And i also work for a software development company (not a dev there though, more of a consultant/trainer) .

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Erm, then a new mechanism would be needed to clear wanted statuses... how you would implement that?

NWN 2 is still a thing?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Why would you need a new mechanism? I am not suggesting making it impossible to get docking permission while wanted but simply revoking any open permissions upon new crimes.

Oh, right. Because you said revokes docking permission it sounded like that you would never got docking permission while wanted.

And its a beautiful example here of how a simple misunderstanding like this could result in a developer implementing something that the designer didn't intend

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NWN 2 is still a thing?

NWN1 is still a thing strangely enough as well.

Niche communities both of them, but still alive.

See: http://www.nwnlist.com/

 

[Iskariot]

There's a griefer sitting inside the station shooting missiles at incoming ships coming through the entrance. His CMDR name was even a griefer name. Not sure how someone is allowed to sit inside of the middle of a station and missile incoming ships.

I had just lost my ship (newly-bought and kitted Type 6) just 15 minutes before at the same station due to the station firing at everything inside. Came up from outfitting to massive station fire that I've never seen the scale of before.

So, I pay insurance and go fill my cargo up again to come back for more cargo to that CMDR sitting in the middle of the station killing incoming ships. Now my Type 6 and cargo are destroyed again. This time I have to take a loan, but have no more money for purchasing items to trade. So, now I have to sell my Type 6 and go back to my Cobra that's parked at another station.

I've never played in solo mode, but this type of garbage griefing makes it very tempting....

Please report it. These kind of useless miscreants destroy the game for everybody.

 

[salad]

I think this exploit is brilliant. Demonstrates lack of testing by FD very well.

Of course he is, this behavior is precise definition of griefing. However, I never blame players for using exploits, I blame developers for leaving them in the game.

FD's "Lack of testing"...

Seriously? You're blaming FD for this one?

Who would think of this? Yes a player did now but its the kind of thing thats easy to miss.

People always find a way to blame FD, but this one is not the case. That is really silly of you.

(Ps:I told you guys about people who use Anime pictures on their profiles, didn't I? None of them can think straight lol.)