Griefers at the Engineers

Melanthes

Melanthes
The grind can be annoying, especially if one seeks PvP above all else. But I wouldn't want to miss even these parts of engineering. It should be something of a major project to push a ship to it's limits.
The main problem as I see it, is that these limitations should not be the rock-paper-scissors model we have now. In comparison take a look at dark souls pvp, which is tactically quite complex and allows for many more viable PvP builds, which do not cripple the PvE capabilities. Dark souls has much stricter soft caps than ED, which helps to balance the combat.
The inflation of hitpoints is the main problem in my view. Because a PvE ship has normally no real chance to hurt a combat build. While this makes sense with traders and explorers, a PvE pirate or bounty hunter build should at least be combat ready, which they are usually not. I think hull and shield reinforcement should be more limited.
 
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Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Screemonster said:
Well, I just now docked at Garay terminal. Doing a tour of the engineers to get some experimentals on my vulture, hopped in and there was a FAS and a mamba hanging around - got pulled from the side by the Mamba. Alrighty, submit, tap boost and start circling, pick out a high-wake target, pop chaff... they had hardpoints out but hadn't gone red yet. Huh.

Then I see frag pellets flying past me.

They tried to use frags. Against a vulture.

My drive is halfway spooled up, one of them finally dinks off my shield, and I get the drag munitions warning.

They're trying to use drag munitions against a vulture.

Needless to say I got away without my outer ring even getting discoloured.
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They weren't "trying to use drag on a Vulture".
You just happened to be the target and that's one of the more common experimentals.
 
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Moriarte

Moriarte
Melanthes said:
The grind can be annoying, especially if one seeks PvP above all else. But I wouldn't want to miss even these parts of engineering. It should be something of a major project to push a ship to it's limits.
The main problem as I see it, is that these limitations should not be the rock-paper-scissors model we have now. In comparison take a look at dark souls pvp, which is tactically quite complex and allows for many more viable PvP builds, which do not cripple the PvE capabilities. Dark souls has much stricter soft caps than ED, which helps to balance the combat.
The inflation of hitpoints is the main problem in my view. Because a PvE ship has normally no real chance to hurt a combat build. While this makes sense with traders and explorers, a PvE pirate or bounty hunter build should at least be combat ready, which they are usually not. I think hull and shield reinforcement should be more limited.
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Bad solution. Only after stacking shield/hull you get reasonably long wing fights. So, you limit shield/hull reinforcement. Ok, people will build shield tanks/SCB builds then. It’s rarely a good idea to nerf something in a radical manner. What you want is to conjure up new stuff to complement the old.
 

CMDR Slee Piboi

CMDR Slee Piboi
Moriarte said:
What you want is to conjure up new stuff to complement the old.
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I'm telling you, let's just get rid of shields altogether and limit the number of HRP and MRP to one each. Wouldn't make any difference to origami pilots because paper planes are always going to paper. But it would remove the need to actually fast forward PvP fights on youtube, which is just as fine a quality metric as any.

Just like them Americans, let's make guns great again!
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
jasonbarron said:
Drag is about psychological warfare and breaking your opponents workflow and concentration, as opposed to literally slowing you down. In other words, it's only really relevant when you're trying to shoot back.
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Drags are also great (in my most humble, "I'm not a true PvPer" opinion) for frustrating rammers, since rammers often rely on boosting. I know I really peeved a griefer using them. And what else am I going to use on my Sidewinder or Dolphin? It's not like I'll actually be able to destroy a griefer, so I might as well annoy him, and perhaps slow him down enough that I can add some distance and get out of Dodge.
 

jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Old Duck said:
Drags are also great (in my most humble, "I'm not a true PvPer" opinion) for frustrating rammers, since rammers often rely on boosting. I know I really peeved a griefer using them. And what else am I going to use on my Sidewinder or Dolphin? It's not like I'll actually be able to destroy a griefer, so I might as well annoy him, and perhaps slow him down enough that I can add some distance and get out of Dodge.
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Exactly. Drags are meant for psychological warfare.
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
RELSPI said:
I know what you mean. If someone in drag suddenly slammed against my canopy I'd be pretty terrified.
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That describes a large number of griefers I encounter. Their avatars give "It" (the freaky clown) a run for his money! I'm pretty sure like the clown, these griefers live in sewers enticing children to play with them, only to...... (Metaphorically speaking, of course.)

RUN!!!
 

Chaparral

Chaparral
jasonbarron said:
My point was that the PvE aspect of this game is woefully absent. The idea behind the DWE is much the same as what we were discussing about player led initiatives in PvP: what makes the expedition (or PvP bounty hunting with player sponsored targets and payoffs) is the interaction between the players themselves. Take the DWE: the actual PvE gameplay for those guys is almost nonexistent, not much better than watching paint dry. The only thing that makes it compelling is players working together and organizing their own cool gameplay, and for that matter the Distant Ganks Expedition for players initiating their own goals and gameplay in an adversarial role.
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I completely agree. The secret sauce in positive mmo experiences is truly the social interaction in my opinion. The actual jumping, loading screen, staring at daggers and circles on the FSS couldn't be more awful. But they have developed player driven events along the way.

What I miss most in my old school mmo experiences were the guild vs guild or server vs. server battles. Rivalries, prizes, politics, strategy, all between large numbers of players at the same time. Some squads would specialize in harassment and feints while larger units would go for large objectives. Solo players could attack supply lines or snare recently killed players trying to rejoin the major groups. All of it linked through teamspeak. Good times. Wish this game had the server architecture and tools to offer those settings.
 

RELSPI

RELSPI
jasonbarron said:
There's a reason I'm the most successful and popular poster on this forum; because of my tact, delicate touch and socio-cultural sensitivity. Learn from me.
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Transvestitism isn't a particularly contentious topic in modern society. Transgender people aren't the same thing, although certain less savoury elements might disagree.
 

Arguendo

Volunteer Moderator
Arguendo
Sir Ganksalot said:
What exactly is the topic at this point? I've been so lost and confused by this thread for last 15 pages.
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Definitely not what the last page was about. That wasn't even remotely PvP or Elite related.
Still confused? Click that page 1 button. Read the OP. If you can't find a topic there, this thread is not for you (general you btw).

Hope that clears it for everyone.
 
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