Griefers make open impossible, and how easy the solution is.

[Amanojaku]

I play in Open almost exclusively unless I'm Exploring, and out of the thousands of CMDRs I've run into, I've had maybe a dozen interdict me for no reason other than to attack me.

Let's make one thing clear, first of all: Getting randomly attacked is NOT grieving. Getting your a** kicked is NOT you being grieved. I consider grieving to be when a player actively hunts down and harasses another player, relentlessly.

And that leads me to the next thing. We have a block function.

The grieving problem is waaay overblown in this game. Never fly without a rebuy. Use the block function on CMDRs who attack without reason if you want (I have yet to block anyone though). Play in Private or Solo. Don't try to be Clark Barrow. Recognize that no matter how good you are at smashing NPCs in your all gimballed pulse or beam Conda, there are some CMDRs out there who will smash you in a Sidewinder. Simple guidelines.

Quit trying to ruin competitive aspects of Elite because you can't hang. Thanks.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Never fly without a rebuy. Use the block function on CMDRs who attack without reason if you want (I have yet to block anyone though). Play in Private or Solo. Don't try to be Clark Barrow.

Quit trying to ruin competitive aspects of Elite because you can't hang. Thanks.

I think the above is about the top and bottom of it. Open is what it is for better or for worse ... It isn't ever going to be what I personally want (which is plausible reactions and consequences when you are in a system with security) because it is really hard to implement and because some players would find it too hard/punishing. .

So like you say use the features at your disposal to shape the game as well as you can. I find it works well (my block list is empty too btw).

BUT you will find a lot of players really hate that too. Yes some players whine about getting shot at in open when they shouldn't... But equally others whine incessantly about the modes which if they really HAVE to exist should.not be allowed to affect BGS, others think there should be no block list and there are plenty who think you should not be able to log out of the game if there is an enemy player in your instance...

So don't make the mistake of thinking it is only PvE players getting shot in open who are salty. There are plenty who moan in this game (Inc yours truly on some things)

Most important of all however. Who is Clark Barrow?

 

[KRU BARANKI]

The grieving problem is waaay overblown in this game. Never fly without a rebuy. Use the block function on CMDRs who attack without reason if you want (I have yet to block anyone though). Play in Private or Solo. Don't try to be Clark Barrow. Recognize that no matter how good you are at smashing NPCs in your all gimballed pulse or beam Conda, there are some CMDRs out there who will smash you in a Sidewinder. Simple guidelines.

It would be simplier if the rebuy in pvp was zero credits. It's probably main reason why people avoid Open. You die you loose everything, multiple times, not just your life and pride.

Why not learning from the best, Elder Scrolls Online for example, if you die in Cyrodiil you respawn in a keep but you loose nothing. No hate, no grief, no irritation. You see a lot of players there, willing to play and die all day long . On the other hand you are in Imperial City - when you die you loose your tel var stones gathered. And this City is generally empty. Magic?

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Yes nublets of this thread. You can equip and engineer your ship until it's safe enough to loose an interdiction and combat log after 15 secs to make gankers furious. You could even menu log instantly before any interdiction. Then switch to solo and block the ganker, then go back to open mode in total safety. You can troll the trolls and it's perfectly legit gameplay.

And if it's a station rammer, you are being griefed by an exploit were the station cant protect you. You should simply task kill.

Because it's open mode. Not a dedicated pvp mode, but a sandbox allowing for emergent pvp that could have been very popular if power gap wasnt so stupidly vast, and pvp-inclined people didnt get the habit of spawncamping. After years of ganking starter systems, Deciat or whatever CG, we are left with mode switching, combat logging and instance blocking as a meta. People shouldnt have pooped so much where they fed.

You simply have to apply some very realistic design choices to your specialized builds, namely add some big shields and shield boosters to them.

If Elite were the real life, I bet none of you PvE proponents would min-max your miners or explorers, because that would get you killed.
You would add the biggest armor and shields you could afford to your vessel, as would I.
So why do you insist on the right to neglect that in open? Go to PG and min-max to your hearts desire, but keep open as it is...

Dont you have some mission running in a T6 to do to try making a point?

 

[Bigmaec]

Dont you have some mission running in a T6 to do to try making a point?

Bla bla bla block bla combat log bla blubb.

No.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Bla bla bla block bla combat log bla blubb.

No.

Speechless I see.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Bla bla bla block bla combat log bla blubb.

No.

Be careful, BM, you will get a new title of 'naughty liar' if you keep on...

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Be careful, BM, you will get a new title of 'naughty liar' if you keep on...

As long as people can vaguely discern nouns from verbs and dont imply I dont even own the game, I have zero reason to doubt they dont tell the truth.

 

[M00ka]

It would be simplier if the rebuy in pvp was zero credits. It's probably main reason why people avoid Open. You die you loose everything, multiple times, not just your life and pride.

.. snip ..

I don't think the problem is the rebuy, I think it what else is lost when confronted with the rebuy screen. Ask any explorer if they are willing to have a zero rebuy but they will still lose hours/days/weeks of exploration data? Would you be happy with a zero rebuy if you just lost a T-9 full of Void Opals that took you several hours to mine?

 

[Bigmaec]

I don't think the problem is the rebuy, I think it what else is lost when confronted with the rebuy screen. Ask any explorer if they are willing to have a zero rebuy but they will still lose hours/days/weeks of exploration data? Would you be happy with a zero rebuy if you just lost a T-9 full of Void Opals that took you several hours to mine?

This. Reducing rebuy to zero would actually make it easier for gankers because they now have even less to lose.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Good gankers have exploited any credit gold rush possible before FDev capitulated. Economy in Elite is nonsensical, I dont see why rebuys for pvp couldnt be set to zero.

 

[Bigmaec]

Good gankers have exploited any credit gold rush possible before FDev capitulated. Economy in Elite is nonsensical, I dont see why rebuys for pvp couldnt be set to zero.

As if only the gankers have exploited the gold rushes

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

As if only the gankers have exploited the gold rushes

Well rebuy is only meaningful for noobs obviously.

Good gankers also exploited engineering in prior systems to get god mode modules and dont have problem sourcing materials for ammo synthesis.

 

[Ethaidan]

Ok, but after you have fitted a Detailed Surface Scanner, Mining Laser, a Refinery, a Cargo Rack, Collector Limpets, Prospector Limpets, Abrasion Blaster, Pulse Wave Analyser, Seismic Charge Launcher, and Sub-surface Displacement Missiles, there's probably no room for any effective defensive features like decent shields or extra shielding for internal modules. Without those defensive features you can't survive long enough to peacefully go about doing your mining.

Not to mention that all requires a lot of credits, so newer players can't start by doing mining as their chosen role, they first have to start by grinding in a fighting role they might not enjoy just to get enough credits to harden their ships against griefers.

So many of your posts in this thread are so wide of the mark. Maybe you need to spend more time learning about ship building? I'm a mediocre pilot and an average ship builder, but here's a couple ships I have used for...

Station trade missions: https://s.orbis.zone/3pvq
Outpost trade missions: https://s.orbis.zone/5emf
Core mining: https://s.orbis.zone/3tcp

I've not had much bother surviving in those - even as a mediocre pilot who very often flies under the influence.

As for newer players not having the credits, etc. to immediately enable them to peacefully go about doing whatever they please completely immune to whatever is going on around them in a MMO set in a conflict ridden dystopian future... I'm sorry, what was your point? If you, or some new pilot cannot survive in popular crowded systems (or cannot be bothered to put in the effort), then maybe the core systems aren't for you?

There are one or two systems in the bubble, so maybe if you want a peaceful time, move out to the countryside where you'll hardly see anyone and won't have to put up with all the big city nonsense of all the horrible traffic congestion, loud annoying neighbours, obnoxious public transit, gangs of terrifying young people, drunks all over city centre on every Friday night? Or keep trying to demand a peaceful countryside experience in Compton.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

You simply have to apply some very realistic design choices to your specialized builds, namely add some big shields and shield boosters to them.

If Elite were the real life, I bet none of you PvE proponents would min-max your miners or explorers, because that would get you killed.
You would add the biggest armor and shields you could afford to your vessel, as would I.
So why do you insist on the right to neglect that in open? Go to PG and min-max to your hearts desire, but keep open as it is...

I knowingly min-maxed last night as I needed a long-jumping ship for exploration (once you're outside the bubble you don't really run into anyone anyways so why compromise), I then realised my 67Ly jumping AspX needed some secondaries applied to some modules and Farseer was closeby so I decided to go there out of all places, in Open of course.

And of course, I got jumped on almost immediately by a couple of ships (one player is in my friend list, the other got me several times in the past) as expected. I throttled down to zero, and typed "make it quick" as I knew I didn't stand a chance of escaping - 4D stripped down thrusters, similar story for shields and hull. But after getting hit by an initial barrage they stopped and replied "Nah. lol" and they left me alone.

I demanded for them to return but to no avail. I then went on to my merry way to Farseer's base without further incidents.

Maybe they didn't destroy my ship because they could smell that I didn't care and no salt was to be had, who knows. Was a short but pretty amusing encounter though.

 

[Screemonster]

If you, or some new pilot cannot survive in popular crowded systems (or cannot be bothered to put in the effort), then maybe the core systems aren't for you?

There are one or two systems in the bubble, so maybe if you want a peaceful time, move out to the countryside where you'll hardly see anyone and won't have to put up with all the big city nonsense of all the horrible traffic congestion, loud annoying neighbours, obnoxious public transit, gangs of terrifying young people, drunks all of city centre on every Friday night? Or keep trying to demand a peaceful countryside experience in Compton.

See, back before the PF district was a thing, I was seriously curious about what the effect on newbie-ganking would be if start locations were randomised (if you wanted them to be) instead of just LHS 3447 (or Asellus Primus, for horizons players) funnelling players towards Eravate.
Like, not truly random (otherwise people would end up in dead-end areas with no outfitting options and long jumps to escape, or if they're really unlucky one of the asteroid stations outside the bubble, but pick a few dozen to a hundred systems with decent outfitting and mission destinations that are reachable in the stock sidey. Just set a flag on a station to the effect of "can be start location" and boom. Could even automate the selection process to a degree, run a database search for shipyard / outfitting options that are relevant to a starting player, filter out systems with no oher populated systems within the freewinder's jump range and less than a certain amount within two jumps, and so on. Add in a little more work on character creation like offering a quick description of the system and offering a re-roll if the player doesn't like it, maybe highlight in red if the system is currently an anarchy, and so on.
If people really wanna go nuts, there's always the option of letting people pick a station, any station, manually, so they can immediately join up with where their buddies that already play the game are without having to make a trek across the entire bubble in a barely-outfitted adder like I did when I first started out.
Also colonia start locations when? Would starting in colonia even be viable?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Now why this is not possible in Elite Dangerous?

Broadly because Elite Dangerous doesn't have a clear separation between either "PvP and PvE" or "hostile action and non-hostile action". Additionally, certain things are not abstracted enough to allow a clean distinction to be made later.

An example I've posted before: come up with a set of collision rules that doesn't allow a hostile player to cause your ship to be destroyed, if they're allowed to share a non-supercruise instance with you.

(Of course, it alternatively is possible in Elite Dangerous in the sense of Solo and PG modes, and the cross-mode System chat channel. Support for bigger PGs with better management tools would help too)

Also colonia start locations when? Would starting in colonia even be viable?

It depends if you intend it as a "challenge" start or not. As a challenge start (pay 1 ARX to unlock it, or something) it would certainly be viable now and probably was okay even two years ago.

As a non-challenge start I think CMDRs with a Colonia start location would need the Colonia engineers to be "common knowledge" and Martuuk, etc. to be introduced by the Colonia engineers. But otherwise it would basically be fine.

 

[Old Duck]

Bla bla bla block bla combat log bla blubb.

I'm making a list,
checking it twice,
going to block those who's naught not nice!
The best solution makes you griefers frown

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

So many of your posts in this thread are so wide of the mark. Maybe you need to spend more time learning about ship building? I'm a mediocre pilot and an average ship builder, but here's a couple ships I have used for...

Station trade missions: https://s.orbis.zone/3pvq
Outpost trade missions: https://s.orbis.zone/5emf
Core mining: https://s.orbis.zone/3tcp

I've not had much bother surviving in those - even as a mediocre pilot who very often flies under the influence.

As for newer players not having the credits, etc. to immediately enable them to peacefully go about doing whatever they please completely immune to whatever is going on around them in a MMO set in a conflict ridden dystopian future... I'm sorry, what was your point? If you, or some new pilot cannot survive in popular crowded systems (or cannot be bothered to put in the effort), then maybe the core systems aren't for you?

There are one or two systems in the bubble, so maybe if you want a peaceful time, move out to the countryside where you'll hardly see anyone and won't have to put up with all the big city nonsense of all the horrible traffic congestion, loud annoying neighbours, obnoxious public transit, gangs of terrifying young people, drunks all over city centre on every Friday night? Or keep trying to demand a peaceful countryside experience in Compton.

For me the thing there is the danger zones are all on their head. It isn't gonna change and I have given up asking if to be so, but places like Sol or Founders or (insert any other hi sec system) are meant to be the safe zones... It is out in the deep black in an anarchy system near a pirate faction base.... That is where the danger should be .... Not at the home of the pilots federation. Given it is the PF who pay the insurance costs for all the ships blown up, does anyone think they would side idly doing nothing whilst their own members ran up huge insurance bills right under their noses.

 

[Ethaidan]

For me the thing there is the danger zones are all on their head. It isn't gonna change and I have given up asking if to be so, but places like Sol or Founders or (insert any other hi sec system) are meant to be the safe zones... It is out in the deep black in an anarchy system near a pirate faction base.... That is where the danger should be .... Not at the home of the pilots federation. Given it is the PF who pay the insurance costs for all the ships blown up, does anyone think they would side idly doing nothing whilst their own members ran up huge insurance bills right under their noses.

Yes, I have long been a vocal advocate for system security to actually be meaningful and act as a psuedo gateway/protection to random assymetrical PvP, and who knows maybe someday FDev will actually take note of how absurdly the current implementation actually plays out as a MMO. That's where I think the community effort should be focused when it comes to PvE vs PvP, 'griefing', etc.

Until then, there are many ways players can survive, even thrive.