Griefers make open impossible, and how easy the solution is.

[alex192004]

I understand the sour taste, but take it as a learning experience. Prepare better or do it in solo or PG. I'm a big advocate of open and I try to spend the majority of my time there, yet considering all I've read about Jameson I'll visit it in solo, unless I'm prepared to deal with the aggression.

A question about how system security works: how fast do they react and how deadly are they? Say I went in there in a really shielded ship, would one or several gankers get kersploded before I do?

yes, i apreciate the tips and i fly in mobius generally, but i want to try again open, the i exit the station and I have no time to react, no warning just two volleys of plasma in the no fire zone of the station, in the slot. the ship was paperthin yes, but its just not fun be destroyed for no reason. Security is purely garbage, in the time the message appear i was semideath lol and the uber enginereed ships that gankers fly eat security wings for breakfast.
I dont see the fun in shoot defenceless ships with no reward or challenge....

 

[Kelster87]

i have no time to react, no warning just two volleys of plasma in the no fire zone of the station, in the slot. the ship was paperthin yes, but its just not fun be destroyed for no reason. Security is purely garbage, in the time the message appear i was semideath lol and the uberenginereed ships that gankers fly have security wings for breakfast.
I dont see the fun in shoot defenceless ships with no reward or challenge....

Did you entirely fail to notice another human player on your scanner?

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

yes, i apreciate the tips and i fly in mobius generally, but i want to try again open, the i exit the station and I have no time to react, no warning just two volleys of plasma in the no fire zone of the station, in the slot. the ship was paperthin yes, but its just not fun be destroyed for no reason. Security is purely garbage, in the time the message appear i was semideath lol and the uber enginereed ships that gankers fly eat security wings for breakfast.
I dont see the fun in shoot defenceless ships with no reward or challenge....

If you need the game mode where there are no potential consequences for poor outfitting, then that's the game mode you need to stick to. Otherwise, don't travel to the Antarctic and then be shocked when it's cold outside.

 

[Sysmon]

If you need the game mode where there are no potential consequences for poor outfitting, then that's the game mode you need to stick to. Otherwise, don't travel to the Antarctic and then be shocked when it's cold outside.

Bad example, I'm afraid, as there are very few consequences when interacting with the environment - Elite is just not that Dangerous when it comes to that. Player killers are not brick walls across motorways, they are people actively trying to go on seal clubbing digital adventures. That requires a very different set of defensive capabilities.

S

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

Bad example, I'm afraid, as there are very few consequences when interacting with the environment - Elite is just not that Dangerous when it comes to that. Player killers are not brick walls across motorways, they are people actively trying to go on seal clubbing digital adventures. That requires a very different set of defensive capabilities.

S

The consequences of going to Antarctica without proper protection from the environment are swift and severe. Flying around JM in open with a paper-hull ship, much the same. The difference is that there is no "safe mode" from real-life consequences, which is what makes reality reality and the game a game.

 

[Speedcuffs]

Gods, don't say that. There are people here who would advocate that exact thing in earnest.

Ah, did you not see that thread?
Oof!

 

[Eliza]

I think you failed to understand what I wrote: I meant you could fight and win against a PvP ship, not just get away. That is what engineering changed.

Just look up Cillit Bang fighting much "better" ships in his pre-engineered Viper Mk3. That jewel shows perfectly how combat used to be.

I know Cillit Bang very well. But win a fight against a engineered ship? That thought alone is hillarious. But one have to go with the times. This game evolved. Like RL. You can't expect that a Spitfire could win against a Hornet.

Addendum: And my comparision comes with own experience in DCS. In Warbirds dogfights were intense and stressful. In a Gen4 / 5 Bird you "only" have to pull the trigger and hope that the AMRAAM hits your target that is way beyond visual range, but that's AA-combat nowadays.

 

[Sysmon]

The consequences of going to Antarctica without proper protection from the environment are swift and severe. Flying around JM in open with a paper-hull ship, much the same. The difference is that there is no "safe mode" from real-life consequences, which is what makes reality reality and the game a game.

You still don't seem to grasp the concept: The environment is a passive threat, and it doesn't matter which way you go there, it will do nothing and you will die swiftly if not prepared. Player killers are an active threat - they choose to hunt you (or fish-barrel-shoot you), and you can avoid them by, well, avoiding them or facing them in builds that will lend you survivability. Or just leave Open until away from the PK'ers.

If Elite Dangerous actually included a dangerous environment, the environment would be present in all modes. There would be no escape. A dangerous environment might even help against the more extreme PvP (and exploration) builds, as everybody would need to stay alive.

S

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Au contraire mon ami. Other than in EvEOnline, ED-Spaceships are not a fulltime job to engineer. You can get all materials and unlock the engineers quite fast. Speaking of my own experience as a working-class member who's out the home for 13h / day and have my fully engineered murderhobo FDL. I purchased it, unlocked Lori Jameson and engineered it within hours. I already had most of the required materials due to constantly playing the game for maybe 6-8 hr / week.

Not that I particularly care about what you do irl, but werent you bragging about reaching 2000 hours of gametime in other threads?

Practice what you preach, wipe your save and unlock Lori Jameson and engineer your FDL within hours. Stream it and post the vid.

 

[Eliza]

Not that I particularly care about what you do irl, but werent you bragging about reaching 2000 hours of gametime in other threads?

Practice what you preach, wipe your save and unlock Lori Jameson and engineer your FDL within hours. Stream it and post the vid.

I don't need to proof what I've done. And yes, I have 2k+ gametime. Over several YEARS of playing E: D and no other game. Nevertheless it proofes that you won't have to play 24/7 Elite to get a decent build.

And guess what...I STILL have a social life apart from Elite. With REAL friends and family. What a shock!!!

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

You still don't seem to grasp the concept: The environment is a passive threat, and it doesn't matter which way you go there, it will do nothing and you will die swiftly if not prepared. Player killers are an active threat - they choose to hunt you (or fish-barrel-shoot you), and you can avoid them by, well, avoiding them or facing them in builds that will lend you survivability. Or just leave Open until away from the PK'ers.

If Elite Dangerous actually included a dangerous environment, the environment would be present in all modes. There would be no escape. A dangerous environment might even help against the more extreme PvP (and exploration) builds, as everybody would need to stay alive.

S

It would appear that we're on the same "git gud or choose modes gud" page .

But yes, I agree that the game would be far more compelling of the environment was challenging past one's twentieth hour of gametime. Sadly it is difficult to accommodate the entire spectrum of risk-acceptance, and if these forums are any indication, Elite's community isn't the most embracing of adversity.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

As usual, the megathread is about players that dont even gank in their safe space living the colonia quaker lives, but still insist FDev shouldnt take action about gankers.

Thanks for the starter systems nerds. It's as close as vanilla elite anyone could get and made open super safe.

 

[VoluptaBox]

You still don't seem to grasp the concept: The environment is a passive threat, and it doesn't matter which way you go there, it will do nothing and you will die swiftly if not prepared. Player killers are an active threat - they choose to hunt you (or fish-barrel-shoot you), and you can avoid them by, well, avoiding them or facing them in builds that will lend you survivability. Or just leave Open until away from the PK'ers.

If Elite Dangerous actually included a dangerous environment, the environment would be present in all modes. There would be no escape. A dangerous environment might even help against the more extreme PvP (and exploration) builds, as everybody would need to stay alive.

S

I played EvE for a long, long time and I quite enjoyed the way they handled the 'dangerous' parts of it. Even the environment could be deadly when ill prepared, but I particularly liked the player to player interaction. They have highsec, lowsec and nullsec. Since it's a single server and always online, highesc is the closed you could get to solo in ED. Security is insane there: basically indestructible, fast to react and will vaporize offenders in seconds. People still get ganked, but usually it's because of silly builds and player mistakes. Security gets worse in lowsec and is completely absent in null. I don't remember many threads from people dwelling in nullsec complaining that they got blown up.

Now, and I haven't tested properly, if security is truly bad even in secure system in ED, I can understand the frustration. Say I do have a good build and there's still not much I can do to defend myself within the 'security' of a station, I wouldn't call that good design. I'll have to test it myself though.

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

As usual, the megathread is about players that dont even gank in their safe space living the colonia quaker lives, but still insist FDev shouldnt take action about gankers.

Thanks for the starter systems nerds. It's as close as vanilla elite anyone could get and made open super safe.

Being that Frontier has given the playerbase everything they need to deal with gankers themselves, why should they step in to hold everyone's hand even more?

And I'm not certain what point you're trying to make by boasting about starter systems. Seems a lot like being smug that you never moved out of your mum's basement...

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

I don't need to proof what I've done. And yes, I have 2k+ gametime. Over several YEARS of playing E: D and no other game. Nevertheless it proofes that you won't have to play 24/7 Elite to get a decent build.

And guess what...I STILL have a social life apart from Elite. With REAL friends and family. What a shock!!!

No it just prove you have to play only Elite casually for five years. But thanks for your input.

 

[Eliza]

I played EvE for a long, long time and I quite enjoyed the way they handled the 'dangerous' parts of it. Even the environment could be deadly when ill prepared, but I particularly liked the player to player interaction. They have highsec, lowsec and nullsec. Since it's a single server and always online, highesc is the closed you could get to solo in ED. Security is insane there: basically indestructible, fast to react and will vaporize offenders in seconds. People still get ganked, but usually it's because of silly builds and player mistakes. Security gets worse in lowsec and is completely absent in null. I don't remember many threads from people dwelling in nullsec complaining that they got blown up.

Now, and I haven't tested properly, if security is truly bad even in secure system in ED, I can understand the frustration. Say I do have a good build and there's still not much I can do to defend myself within the 'security' of a station, I wouldn't call that good design. I'll have to test it myself though.

It's really not near "Concord"-Style. Don't bother about System Sec in Elite. It's annoying only, because you will be 'dicted every minute...nothing mor or less. Even the reaction-Time in High-Sec is too long to prevent sealclubbing / ganking. And even if the Security jumps upon you, with a decent build you just can Hi-Wake to safety.

 

[Eliza]

No it just prove you have to play only Elite casually for five years. But thanks for your input.

And that's what I've done and hope will do the next 5 years. Call me a dedicated gamer. You're welcome.

And now back into my cockpit. Have to train PK'ing with friends.

 

[Sysmon]

It's really not near "Concord"-Style. Don't bother about System Sec in Elite. It's annoying only, because you will be 'dicted every minute...nothing mor or less. Even the reaction-Time in High-Sec is too long to prevent sealclubbing / ganking. And even if the Security jumps upon you, with a decent build you just can Hi-Wake to safety.

Also add the lack of memory of law enforcement in Elite: If committing murder in a high security system, especially near a station, you should never be able to come back to that system. At least not for a long time and not without a LOT of attention from law enforcement. Elite does have a bit of consequence now in the form of Notoriety. But it is very timid. The range of responses need to be expanded a bit. This will annoy some, but wouldn't it be more fun if you actively had to plan where you go and plan for what you might meet, with some predictivity?

S

 

[Eliza]

Also add the lack of memory of law enforcement in Elite: If committing murder in a high security system, especially near a station, you should never be able to come back to that system. At least not for a long time and not without a LOT of attention from law enforcement. Elite does have a bit of consequence now in the form of Notoriety. But it is very timid. The range of responses need to be expanded a bit. This will annoy some, but wouldn't it be more fun if you actively had to plan where you go and plan for what you might meet, with some predictivity?

S

I hear you...and (vainly) hope, that FDev rethink C&P again from scratch.

 

[Sysmon]

My favourite solution to ganking near stations in high security systems is to give stations EMP cannons. They would simply shut down all systems of offending ships, which would then be towed across the edge of the no-fire zone and left there. With a 5 minute timer on reboot and logging, of course.

S