Griefers make open impossible, and how easy the solution is.

Hellrider

H
NisseNeutron said:
Open is impossible, inhospitable, toxic and frustrating , and quite frankly, it's beyond me why Frontier is not doing anything about it.
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Last week- 100% of time in CG.
Interdicted? Once.
Deaths? 0 (your bad, evil terro-ganker destroy half of mu hull and jump in SC)
SC in system, 20 minutes of reading chat, 20 minutes of SC in the void, in CG system- 0 interdictions. Even in DBX, even in cobra, even in eagle.
We have different games, in last year i can count deaths by hands of gankers on hands.
I love this kind of players, you want god mode, and you are making sea of tears after each ganking. But other players are only real challene in this game.
Terrible players, always kill you without reason.
But, maybe they have reason. Simple, when you want to kill someone you will do fast pew pew rather than long speech before it.*

*Im not a ganker. I haven't interdictor on any of my ships

I don't believe you.

PS: Frontier should remove BGS, PP and CG from solo and PG :)
 
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Morbad

Morbad
M4st0d0n said:
Well ganking is by essence asymetric and lobsided.
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Rarely to the degree it renders the timer capable of serving it's purpose.

Frontier doesn't want the timer to only benefit the agressors in more extreme examples of ganking and give everyone else a legit-disconnect-for-free card.

M4st0d0n said:
I dont think you have any data about player interactions on a large scale, just your personnal experiences. I told an anecdocte about mine. I flew a paper T7 in open and menu loggedat 0 hull. It was very easy to do by accessing the menu and exiting, simply, in a totallyt legit way.
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If there is time to log off when under attack, that means the timer is not doing it's job.

M4st0d0n said:
I dont know how they could streamline that more than by reducing the timer. I wasnt there when there was no timer, but it must have been a helluva lot of fun too.
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I don't recal the timer ever not being there, but if there was a time when it didn't exist, and they added the delay, that would still directly contradict your statement about the timer making it "more streamlined to log off".
 

[VR] M4st0d0n

[VR] M4st0d0n
Morbad said:
Rarely to the degree it renders the timer capable of serving it's purpose.

Frontier doesn't want the timer to only benefit the agressors in more extreme examples of ganking and give everyone else a legit-disconnect-for-free card.

If there is time to log off when under attack, that means the timer is not doing it's job.

I don't recal the timer ever not being there, but if there was a time when it didn't exist, and they added the delay, that would still directly contradict your statement about the timer making it "more streamlined to log off".
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If you think the timer serves it's purpose, good for you. You dont have any data about other players interactions so you cant say it rarely happens to have extremely lobsided ganks. Judging by the massive amount of threads with different posters we could even assume it's pretty common occurence. You may or may not post in all of those threads to say it's OK, I dont think it impacts the metrics they use for the perceived quality of player interactions. You dont have any data about what FDev wanted or not by designing the timer in the first place.

So basically, I think menu log streamlined combat logging, and you dont. I'm fine with that.
 

Andro

Andro
Not sure the solution should be that... draconian? I don't think there should be 'consequences' for random murder, the notoriety system is fine currently IMO. The solution should make sense in the game universe. System security rating changes a few things, but not nearly enough. If a system is HIGH security, you can certainly kill someone randomly, but the response by enforcement should be fast and intense enough to drive even wings from a system. ATR and security should be very strong and have much faster reaction times. If they're onto you for murder, or repeated murder especially, you should be getting chain interdicted by persistent hunters who will keep calling reinforcements until criminals are dead or flee the system. Capital systems and Shinrarta should be safe, how much sense does it make for people with Federal/Imperial ranks to be able to rampage with impunity in Sol/Achenar? Same for Shinrarta. When less armed and defended players make the decision to venture into more dangerous and less secure systems, that's when pirates and murderers can have free reign with them.
 

Screemonster

Screemonster
Morbad said:
Rarely to the degree it renders the timer capable of serving it's purpose.

Frontier doesn't want the timer to only benefit the agressors in more extreme examples of ganking and give everyone else a legit-disconnect-for-free card.
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Personally I consider the timer useless as an honour system because being interdicted, but not fired upon yet, doesn't count as being "in danger". I've even watched people do it on-stream, literally menulog the instant they get interdicted before the opponent has time to deploy hardpoints, never mind turn to face and fire upon them. No timer at all.

Personally as a solution I'd say "being in FSD cooldown while another ship exists in the instance counts as being in a dangerous situation" should handle it, the latter clause being to prevent imposing the timer on explorers who just dropped out of supercruise to log out at the end of a session.
 

Artificial Intelligence

Artificial Intelligence
The simplest thing that FD can do to reduce annoying from unprovoked ganks from griefers in open world is to make interception more interesting and give interception victims chance to avoid it. Right now, for victim right now it almost impossible to avoid interception from other player, because it much easier for attacker to follow course than for his victim. In my opinion, adding additional nuances into interdiction mechanic will help a lot with stupid gankers problem:
  • add initial bonus to victim based on mass difference (75%-25% max), it's really unfair that attacker on Sidewiner or Eagle don't have penalty when he trying to intercept, for example, fully loaded Type 9 or Cutter
  • add more course shaking to player whose ship have less mass

That two simple changes will make interception mechanic more fun and challenging both in PVE and PVP and, I guess, will significally reduce annoying from griefers, because main reason why people hate them so strong is that they are attacking non-combat ships in first place when other players even not planning to fight.
 

kilvenny

kilvenny
Attack Chimp said:
I simply can't believe that every time you went into open you were "grieved". Perhaps you're using hyperbole to make your point, yet still being "grieved" half the time you hit open is hard to believe.
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Actually that has been my experience too, only I would not call it "grieved". I went into open, very quickly met another player and got dead very, very quickly. Mind you I didn't do anything to try and escape or avoid contact. I fly a Cobra so likely to be outgunned, so wasn't even trying to be an aggressor. One day, I will try again, but yes, it was a thoroughly negative experience each time.
 

[VR] M4st0d0n

[VR] M4st0d0n
Artificial Intelligence said:
The simplest thing that FD can do to reduce annoying from unprovoked ganks from griefers in open world is to make interception more interesting and give interception victims chance to avoid it. Right now, for victim right now it almost impossible to avoid interception from other player, because it much easier for attacker to follow course than for his victim. In my opinion, adding additional nuances into interdiction mechanic will help a lot with stupid gankers problem:
  • add initial bonus to victim based on mass difference (75%-25% max), it's really unfair that attacker on Sidewiner or Eagle don't have penalty when he trying to intercept, for example, fully loaded Type 9 or Cutter
  • add more course shaking to player whose ship have less mass

That two simple changes will make interception mechanic more fun and challenging both in PVE and PVP and, I guess, will significally reduce annoying from griefers, because main reason why people hate them so strong is that they are attacking non-combat ships in first place when other players even not planning to fight.
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I think supercruise instancing in a busy system is simply not fitted for multiplayer interaction in real time. It's easier for attackers simply because of lag. I dont see how they could fix that by tweaking the interdiction minigame.

It's spammable, gamey, broken and it's not very interesting in the first place to have to move a blue circle around two bars, from both side. I'd rather have some rock paper scissor turn-based electronic countermeasures than this laggy placeholder.
 

swiftsure

swiftsure
I enjoy playing with people not against them, we shouldn't have to join a private group to play the way we want. WoW has solved this problem with a new PVP flag system that works well. Elite could introduce a PVP flag which we could enable/disable in stations, we would then only be put in instances with other players using the same flag.
 

Deleted member 110222

D
swiftsure said:
I enjoy playing with people not against them, we shouldn't have to join a private group to play the way we want. WoW has solved this problem with a new PVP flag system that works well. Elite could introduce a PVP flag which we could enable/disable in stations, we would then only be put in instances with other players using the same flag.
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What about those of us who want to yeet your ship out of the sky for no reason?
 

GoryDamnPixie

GoryDamnPixie
Fdev should implement something like GTA Online. A passive mode for those who do not wish to engage in pvp but still want to interact with other players in open play.
 

myothershipisacobraiv

myothershipisacobraiv
What if Shinrarta was Open only and PVP locked but Open was PVE only?

Anyway I think Frontier did make one critical mistake when it came to the pvp vs. immmmerrrrrrrrzzzzion thing. They don't inform newbies of the existing in-lore situation that players are considered Pilots' Federation and npcs aren't. I actually suggested this before on this forum before I knew that this was already canon. I think simply sharing this fact with newbies would help with the leaky immersion caused by the ganking and help mitigate one of the downsides of emergers syndrome.
 
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