Griefing: Is it?

[GluttonyFang]

if you know anything about bartels work, you would know that killers and achievers do not mesh well. (usually why there is a pvp pve split sever wise) and because of the way the game works, killers are the only group getting a fully satisfied experience.

Combat logging, mod-switching, anyone...?

No one's fully satisfied, which is how compromising works. If one side is fully satisfied, another is fully not, but that is not the case here. There's no full satisfaction anywhere, even in real life. There is always limitations and restrictions to desires.

I would rather have a community that understands how foreign positions and opinions are substantiated than having an echo-chamber promoting a homogeneous environment full of unnecessary exclusivity.

Which is why I'm in support of a flag system in Open.

 

[CorvusDove]

I don't need to be a spokesperson for players of Elite to prove your statement of "It's clear that all parties are unsatisfied." as untrue. As you made the initial statement, apparently as a spokesperson for all parties (or in other words players of Elite?) I just wanted to correct you, that you do not speak for all of us.

People make blanket statements like that when they realize they are in an uncomfortable minority.

 

[Buglet]

I don't need to be a spokesperson for players of Elite to prove your statement of "It's clear that all parties are unsatisfied." as untrue. As you made the initial statement, apparently as a spokesperson for all parties (or in other words players of Elite?) I just wanted to correct you, that you do not speak for all of us.

If a party is satisfied, why are the debating in the forums? Surely their satisfaction would mean there's no need for them to discuss such problems with people.

And even if you're satisfied with "how FD have implemented the game", does your satisfaction not lie with how other players are unsatisfied with something that you're satisfied with?

- - - Updated - - -

People make blanket statements like that when they realize they are in an uncomfortable minority.

Perhaps they do, but I made that statement because it's clear to anyone that doesn't live in total denial that a lot of people on this forum are unhappy.

 

[Cmdr Cunomaglus]

stepping out of their desired comfort zone and try to compromise, which I find nothing more than indolent.

Yet the only answer 'your side' seems to give in these threads is "working as intended, no change, deal with it". That sounds to me like you're very happy in your comfort zone and not interested in compromise because at the moment, your comfort zone is pretty damn comfortable while the other team isn't very comfortable at all.

What compromise would you suggest is appropriate?

Disclaimer: I play solo and will continue to do so, I don't give a toss what you monkeys get up to in open.

 

[Nara]

If a party is satisfied, why are the debating in the forums? Surely their satisfaction would mean there's no need for them to discuss such problems with people.

And even if you're satisfied with "how FD have implemented the game", does your satisfaction not lie with how other players are unsatisfied with something that you're satisfied with?

This is a debate about what constitutes griefing and how griefers feel morally about themselves. Anyone with any sense should probably avoid the second part. My part of this debate was to question if the OP had been griefed at all, and through careful argument I have attempted to show that real griefing in this game is very hard to prove. I've also spoken about why some people come to the false conclusion that they've been the victim of griefing. It's my choice to debate this or not, but that choice has no relevance on my satisfaction with the current state of the game.

Your second point... that's a jab at my personal character? If so then I won't justify it with a response. If not then please clarify your point.

 

[Buglet]

Yet the only answer 'your side' seems to give in these threads is "working as intended, no change, deal with it". That sounds to me like you're very happy in your comfort zone and not interested in compromise because at the moment, your comfort zone is pretty damn comfortable while the other team isn't very comfortable at all.

What compromise would you suggest is appropriate?

Disclaimer: I play solo and will continue to do so, I don't give a toss what you monkeys get up to in open.

Have all the +rep!

 

[Alice Margatroid]

Combat logging, mod-switching, anyone...?

No one's fully satisfied, which is how compromising works. If one side is fully satisfied, another is fully not, but that is not the case here. There's no full satisfaction anywhere, even in real life. There is always limitations and restrictions to desires.

I would rather have a community that understands how foreign positions and opinions are substantiated than having an echo-chamber promoting a homogeneous environment.

Which is why I'm in support of a flag system in Open.

no, you have been proven wrong by the fact that some people do say they fully enjoy elite. even though this game lacks things for explorers(mostly mechanic related) yet there are both explorers and killers who are happy with the way this game goes.

also keep in mind that different people have different levels of expectations. so not everyone will hate a game that's buggy or incomplete. however, some people find the same game less then playable for reasons that exist.

Its also clear to me that you dont understand bartles taxology. the difference between intended game mechanics, vs buggs. combat logging is a exploit as declared by the developers. which means that it was not part of the planning of the game. while its effect on the game hurts killers, the rest of the game heavily supports them.

ether way, my point still stands, to fix the game, ether the community needs to work together on solutions, or fd needs to get on the ball and promote explorers, then social players.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Yet the only answer 'your side' seems to give in these threads is "working as intended, no change, deal with it". That sounds to me like you're very happy in your comfort zone and not interested in compromise because at the moment, your comfort zone is pretty damn comfortable while the other team isn't very comfortable at all.

What compromise would you suggest is appropriate?

Disclaimer: I play solo and will continue to do so, I don't give a toss what you monkeys get up to in open.

I'll ignore that unnecessary metaphor.

In your disclaimer, you already clarified that you have no, or close to no experience in Open.

Right now, criminal activities are greatly limited in the sense that the victim can combat log, high wake, and avoid interaction all together by mode switching.

I understand that high waking is necessary for some to get out of desperate situations, and mode switching is an "acceptable" exploit of the mode system (I'm talking about people switching modes to avoid something while they play in Open). But there is no serious punishment against combat loggers and no compensation for those that suffered a combat logger.

Therefore I suggest that you do some work to understand your opposition instead of using ignorance as a basis to justify your argument.

 

[Buglet]

I'll ignore that unnecessary metaphor.

In your disclaimer, you already clarified that you have no, or close to no experience in Open.

Right now, criminal activities are greatly limited in the sense that the victim can combat log, high wake, and avoid interaction all together by mode switching.

I understand that high waking is necessary for some to get out of desperate situations, and mode switching is an "acceptable" exploit of the mode system (I'm talking about people switching modes to avoid something while they play in Open). But there is no serious punishment against combat loggers and no compensation for those that suffered a combat logger.

Therefore I suggest that you do some work to understand your opposition instead of using ignorance as a basis to justify your argument.

You're actually suggesting that mode-switching is a viable game mechanic, and not at all an exploit?

And here you are calling people ignorant, yet you remain ignorant to the fact that if players are actively being encouraged to EXPLOIT their way out of situations, then perhaps the situation itself is the problem!

 

[GluttonyFang]

Fold

Stating one enjoys a something does not equate full satisfaction. There will always be desires that are unmet, if humans learned how to be content, the world would be drastically different than what it is.

You're on point that I have no knowledge of bartles' taxology, if you would like to explain it or point to a source where I can read about it, it would be great.

From your explanation, however, you claim that the majority supports combat logging therefore it is justified. First of all, where is the statistical data that supports your claim? Second of all, does having a majority on a certain perspective justifies it?

The entire Horizon update is explorer content-heavy, and also player killers is a type of interaction, therefore should not be excluded from the category of "social players".

 

[Cmdr Cunomaglus]

I have of course never read any thread anywhere or played any game where the subject of griefing has come up, I enter the topic as ignorant as a new-born babe.

So, working as intended, no change, deal with it, also implied please fix the bits that inconvenience me. Gotcha.

Compromise, ladies and gentlemen!

 

[CorvusDove]

You're actually suggesting that mode-switching is a viable game mechanic, and not at all an exploit?

And here you are calling people ignorant, yet you remain ignorant to the fact that if players are actively being encouraged to EXPLOIT their way out of situations, then perhaps the situation itself is the problem!

Or...that very thing is the whole damn reason modes exist and players who refuse to use the tools at hand are the problem.

 

[GluttonyFang]

You're actually suggesting that mode-switching is a viable game mechanic, and not at all an exploit?

And here you are calling people ignorant, yet you remain ignorant to the fact that if players are actively being encouraged to EXPLOIT their way out of situations, then perhaps the situation itself is the problem!

Mode switching is an acceptable mechanic in the sense that people can choose what mode they play in.

Using it to avoid certain situation is a questionable use of the mechanic as a portion of the community have pointed out.

If you claim that the situation is what encourage players to "exploit," then perhaps we should start questioning why are we allowing this "exploit."

For example:

Taxes, if the government decided one day one may not pay taxes by taking a vacation to a different dimension of the same world by the click of a few buttons.

Should we start questioning the validity and necessity of tax collection?

 

[Buglet]

Stating one enjoys a something does not equate full satisfaction. There will always be desires that are unmet, if humans learned how to be content, the world would be drastically different than what it is.

You're on point that I have no knowledge of bartles' taxology, if you would like to explain it or point to a source where I can read about it, it would be great.

From your explanation, however, you claim that the majority supports combat logging therefore it is justified. First of all, where is the statistical data that supports your claim? Second of all, does having a majority on a certain perspective justifies it?

The entire Horizon update is explorer content-heavy, and also player killers is a type of interaction, therefore should not be excluded from the category of "social players".

1) You suggest a compromise and encourage people to leave their comfort zone, yet the people you defend are less than willing to compromise and are well within their comfort zone.

2) Google.

3) Let's agree combat logging is an exploit and always will be, without being cynical.

4) Horizons is for explorers and PvPers alike. Also. Kicking a man in the head is an "interaction" yet most would rather brand it as "antisocial behavior". Your point is null.

 

[-Pv-]

I'm glad you can be the spokesperson for players of Elite.

Why is this person's opinion construed as speaking for everyone?

-Pv-

 

[Nara]

I have of course never read any thread anywhere or played any game where the subject of griefing has come up, I enter the topic as ignorant as a new-born babe.

So, working as intended, no change, deal with it, also implied please fix the bits that inconvenience me. Gotcha.

Compromise, ladies and gentlemen!

Do you play exclusively in solo because of griefers or PvPers?

 

[Cmdr Cunomaglus]

Do you play exclusively in solo because of griefers or PvPers?

No, I'm pretty much a misanthrope and loner.

 

[SkipRat]

Its by no means the community's fault for people hiding in solo/groups. its instead fd's fault. however, its also only the comunity that has the ablity to change things for the better.

Fd dropped offline, fd did not use bartles taxology well, by overly supporting killers and achievers while under supporting explorers and social players. if you know anything about bartels work, you would know that killers and achievers do not mesh well. (usually why there is a pvp pve split sever wise) and because of the way the game works, killers are the only group getting a fully satisfied experience.

If fd was skilled at using this, they would be doing everything they can to help explorers out, and more importantly giving them more things to do in the bubble as well. allowing them to help reduce the number of killers to other people raitio. while also giving achievers more people to work with, and giving social people more people to talk to.

after that they would need to expand the social tools. but again, its what one would do if they understand game development advancement.

ether way. if people want to get escorts, or help other people with escorts, contact the recon guys via our website. http://aussidan.wix.com/recon

Excuse me... What is this utter tosh I am reading...

FD being responsible for people being morons... So FD now need hold players by the hand to play with any kind of common sense.

Utter s................

 

[Buglet]

Why is this person's opinion construed as speaking for everyone?

-Pv-

Why won't you let me construe whatever I want?

 

[Nara]

No, I'm pretty much a misanthrope and loner.

Sounds like you're happy with the current situation too then