Grind - can we solve the problem?

I'm still waiting for engaging gameplay to be added that priovides

- Fun
- reason
- challenge
- some complexity
- Skill

You can argue there is "fun" to be had - the others are lacking except maybe for PVP.

I'm enjoying myself, currently I'm doing elite wing assassinations solo in a chieftain (part engineered).
 
Like I said, some people can find fun in the game, that's great :)

What about the rest of us?

Concentrate on what you enjoy, avoid the things you don't like.

Outfit the ship you enjoy flying the most with the stuff in it you like the most, ignore any temptation to min-max go for your favorite weapons not the best ones. Now do some missions that sound like fun simply because they sound like fun, ignoring the reward money, influence and mats. If you don't like missions go bounty hunting or canyon running or whatever.

If you don't like missions, canyon running, trade, bounty hunting, PVP or anything else the game offers in your favorite ship you really have burned yourself out and you should take a break. I'm not saying this in a "get out" way, I'm saying it in a concentrate on the things you like means entire games not just how you play the one game. ED will still be here later.

There are plenty of other games around, Subnautica's really good fun.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
While you wait for the "better" mechanics (which may never come for you), play another game.

I've made plenty of posts that you have read that have stated I don't play ED and I play other games - so you forget what suggestions I made, you forget I don't play the game, it's like a stuck record. In each of our engagments now I have to quote you to show you are wrong (like I did just a moment ago) and remind you in other posts that suggestions have been made, over and over on how to fix things and then you turn around and throw it in my face by saying things like, "and STILL nobody has told me how to improve the game!" On top of that you made some snide comment in OA's thread of a perffectly reasonable video. Usually your posts are a LOT better but recently it's like you've forgotten the last 4 years of discussions here and what you're posting yourself and then blaming others for doing things that they didn't do.
 
I've made plenty of posts that you have read that have stated I don't play ED and I play other games
I don't remember all your posts. Was just trying to be helpful.

- so you forget what suggestions I made, you forget I don't play the game, it's like a stuck record. In each of our engagments now I have to quote you to show you are wrong (like I did just a moment ago)
Where have you done that. Oh a quick look in your post history says you are talking rubbish again. You seem to have a habit of doing this.

and remind you in other posts that suggestions have been made, over and over on how to fix things and then you turn around and throw it in my face by saying things like, "and STILL nobody has told me how to improve the game!"
I have my own ideas as you have yours. Doesn't mean to say that they will improve the game for everyone. As stated a number of times, I am look for other opinions on the subject and have a good conversation about how things can be improved, instead of just saying the game sucks again and again and again.

On top of that you made some snide comment in OA's thread of a perffectly reasonable video.
Wasn't a snide comment, it's just how you read it.

Usually your posts are a LOT better but recently it's like you've forgotten the last 4 years of discussions here and what you're posting yourself and then blaming others for doing things that they didn't do.
Lol. Ere I have never blamed others for doing something they didn't do. That looks like your area.


Oh, you mean this one:
People can't help themselves. Even if there were a plethora of different ways to get something, loads of variation, great and deep gameplay, people will still grind out the easiest and fastest method to get something and then complain about the grind after they have done so.

There is nothing that can be done for these people.

Just stating a fact. It's is what will happen no matter what FDev do. If you cannot see the truth of that comment, then you are walking around with your head burried somewhere.
 
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Jex =TE=

Banned
Concentrate on what you enjoy, avoid the things you don't like.

Outfit the ship you enjoy flying the most with the stuff in it you like the most, ignore any temptation to min-max go for your favorite weapons not the best ones. Now do some missions that sound like fun simply because they sound like fun, ignoring the reward money, influence and mats. If you don't like missions go bounty hunting or canyon running or whatever.

If you don't like missions, canyon running, trade, bounty hunting, PVP or anything else the game offers in your favorite ship you really have burned yourself out and you should take a break. I'm not saying this in a "get out" way, I'm saying it in a concentrate on the things you like means entire games not just how you play the one game. ED will still be here later.

There are plenty of other games around, Subnautica's really good fun.

I don't play the game because it offers nothing of the requirements I set out above. The entire game is broken in as far as the way the missions are designed. All of these game mechanics are hideous...

PowerPlay
CQC
Wings (in as mu7ch as it's broke but also provides no gameplay other than just "being in a wing")
Engineers (pointless in a game where the AI are so weak that making yourself tougher, and thus the AI easier, is a detriment to gameplay)
MultiCrew - I mean...
Regular Missions - snoozefest - why am I doing these?
Piracy - don't make me laugh
Bounty Hunting - see above
CZ's - pointless
Exploring - the biggest crime is this one. A huge galaxy and literally nothing in it. I'll find what I've seen before in every corner of the galaxy - PG will see to that but to have nothing out there to find? Exploration content would make me happy though - I can leave out all the rest but I'm not going out there knowing there's literally nothing to find (and no, finding a slightly different colored planet is NOT exploring and that can be explained like this.

"Hi, I'm back from exploring! I found 1,324,456 beigy coloured planets!"

All of these activities lack any reason or humanity or feeling and are so basic I can't even call it a game, which is why I don't waste my time with it but hope that Beyond addresses the gaps.

As for canyon running, I like the look of that but.... ED is NOT a canyon running game. It's a spaceship game and the current game mechanics are so shallow compared to other games I've played (even FE2 was better by far than ED but I was a lot younger then). We're talking about the game play mechanics here which we need to remember, not emergent gameplay ( I believe it's called)

As for Subnautica - I have it and was waiting for release day but I have other games I'm playing right now. Kingdom Come Deliverance is on my list as well as Project Cars/iRacing/Assetto Corsa/ LOL - was hoping Subnautica would go MP coop which is why I held off for so long.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
I don't remember all your posts. Was just trying to be helpful.


Where have you done that. Oh a quick look in your post history says you are talking rubbish again. You seem to have a habit of doing this.


I have my own ideas as you have yours. Doesn't mean to say that they will improve the game for everyone. As stated a number of times, I am look for other opinions on the subject and have a good conversation about how things can be improved, instead of just saying the game sucks again and again and again.


Wasn't a snide comment, it's just how you read it.


Lol. Ere I have never blamed others for doing something they didn't do. That looks like your area.


Oh, you mean this one:


Just stating a fact. It's is what will happen no matter what FDev do. If you cannot see the truth of that comment, then you are walking around with your head burried somewhere.


Max in the other thread only yesterday! I told then!

How is it I can remember you making posts offering suggestions and can even remember the two of us DISCUSSING suggestions and yet you have no recollection of either?

And I'm the one who can't make a coherent argument?
 
Max in the other thread only yesterday! I told then!

How is it I can remember you making posts offering suggestions and can even remember the two of us DISCUSSING suggestions and yet you have no recollection of either?

And I'm the one who can't make a coherent argument?

That was some time ago. People can get other ideas later. That is what I want. And no I don't remember all the posts, but I am sure we have talked about stuff constructively, but not in that thread (my memory is not what it used to be). That thread was asking for ideas. I gave some eventually, but to be honest I am so jaded with these threads. I just don't want to see them anymore as they just become areas for people to crap on the game and the devs.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
how about making a game that is fun to play rather than a game where you can't stand doing something for long anymore you move onto another thing you can't stand doing for long.

It's a question to the developers, not me. All I'm saying is that for me switching between activities when they start feeling samey works. Nowhere in my post I've said I "can't stand doing something for long anymore, so I move onto another thing I can't stand doing for long". So please don't put words in my mouth.

If this is how YOU are personally feeling about the game, then I'm sorry to hear that. I know it's been said many times to many people, but perhaps this is just not the game for you? The principal design decisions are what they are, some people enjoy them, some not.

I am able to accept the fact, that some games are just not for me. For example I tried many crafting/survival type of games, Arc, Rust, Subnautica and so on and I simply don't enjoy them. Does it mean they're bad games? No, it means they are games that I personally don't enjoy. I find then grindy, just as you find Elite grindy. The difference is that I accept it and move on, rather than go to their forums and try to force developers to redesign those games into something they'll never be.

"Fun" and "grind" are very subjective experiences and therefore these discussions are always difficult, because you will always confront OPINIONS rather than facts.

Fact: the principal design of the game is to have repetitive tasks that will allow to achieve specific goals in the game.
Fact: Activity A take X amount of hours to complete
Opinion 1: Activity A is a grind and it's not fun at all, because it takes X amount of hours to complete
Opinion 2: Activity A is not a grind and is quite fun, because I don't feel forced to do it for X amount hours in a row and I have a choice of doing activity B for Y amount of hours if activity A is getting boring.

So yeah, your opinion is that the game is grindy and not enjoyable. Fine, you have a full right to have and express that opinion. My question is - if you don't enjoy the game so much and it doesn't look like it's going in the direction that would allow to enjoy it, why not just accept the fact that this is not the game for you and move on?
 
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I'm enjoying myself, currently I'm doing elite wing assassinations solo in a chieftain (part engineered).

Other than harvesting mats in a CZ, I've recently gotten into these missions, too. The first time I've actively sought out NPC's interaction for combat in almost two years. While kind of diverting for a few engagements here and there, I can't help but think they're not really working as intended if we can solo them. I was doing them in a Chieftain, too, and managed to get myself allied with a couple factions and g5 material rewards began showing up, so that's definitely my new favorite way of collecting biotech and mef
 
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I don't play the game because it offers nothing of the requirements I set out above. The entire game is broken in as far as the way the missions are designed. All of these game mechanics are hideous...

If that's how you see it you've made the right decision.

PowerPlay
CQC
Wings (in as mu7ch as it's broke but also provides no gameplay other than just "being in a wing")
Engineers (pointless in a game where the AI are so weak that making yourself tougher, and thus the AI easier, is a detriment to gameplay)
MultiCrew - I mean...
Regular Missions - snoozefest - why am I doing these?
Piracy - don't make me laugh
Bounty Hunting - see above
CZ's - pointless
Exploring - the biggest crime is this one. A huge galaxy and literally nothing in it. I'll find what I've seen before in every corner of the galaxy - PG will see to that but to have nothing out there to find? Exploration content would make me happy though - I can leave out all the rest but I'm not going out there knowing there's literally nothing to find (and no, finding a slightly different colored planet is NOT exploring and that can be explained like this.

I've always liked spaceship games so to me all those things are just stuff to do in my spaceship, effectively makework but that's the nature of video games.

"Hi, I'm back from exploring! I found 1,324,456 beigy coloured planets!"

You are out of touch with that one mate, the current complaint has moved on from beige and is that the dark side of the no longer beige planets is too bright/too dark or both it depends on the poster.

All of these activities lack any reason or humanity or feeling and are so basic I can't even call it a game, which is why I don't waste my time with it but hope that Beyond addresses the gaps.

I can't honestly see any drastic changes to them except tinkering around the edges, at four years in regarding anything as a placeholder is probably unrealistic.

As for canyon running, I like the look of that but.... ED is NOT a canyon running game. It's a spaceship game and the current game mechanics are so shallow compared to other games I've played (even FE2 was better by far than ED but I was a lot younger then). We're talking about the game play mechanics here which we need to remember, not emergent gameplay ( I believe it's called)

Canyon running is just a fun thing to do, and the faster the ship the better. Sometimes whilst planetary ring bounty hunting in a speed build I just throttle right up and head for the planet through the ring, it's best done in planetary shadow with your headlights turned on and angry pirates behind you.

As for Subnautica - I have it and was waiting for release day but I have other games I'm playing right now. Kingdom Come Deliverance is on my list as well as Project Cars/iRacing/Assetto Corsa/ LOL - was hoping Subnautica would go MP coop which is why I held off for so long.

Never buy a maybe.
 
Other than harvesting mats in a CZ, I've recently gotten into these missions, too. The first time I've actively sought out NPC's interaction for combat in almost two years. While kind of diverting for a few engagements here and there, I can't help but think they're not really working as intended if we can solo them. I was doing them in a Chieftain, too, and managed to get myself allied with a couple factions and g5 material rewards began showing up, so that's definitely my new favorite way of collecting biotech and mef

It seems a bit random, just got my bottom properly kicked by a clipper with 5 escorts it's phasing sequence lasers were cutting me to ribbons, and the escorts were hanging back not being drawn so it all or none. I limped back to the station with nothing to show for it but the bounties on the hunters they sent after me. On the bright side I dropped into 4 or 5 HGE USS's waiting for the target so now I'm rolling in proto-radiolic-alloys, which I think I need but can't remember what for.

Same mission type a few days ago no difficulty at all. There may have been a sneaky balancing pass, I'll try a dangerous one and see how I do.
 
It seems a bit random, just got my bottom properly kicked by a clipper with 5 escorts it's phasing sequence lasers were cutting me to ribbons, and the escorts were hanging back not being drawn so it all or none. I limped back to the station with nothing to show for it but the bounties on the hunters they sent after me. On the bright side I dropped into 4 or 5 HGE USS's waiting for the target so now I'm rolling in proto-radiolic-alloys, which I think I need but can't remember what for.

Same mission type a few days ago no difficulty at all. There may have been a sneaky balancing pass, I'll try a dangerous one and see how I do.

Your target was a clipper? What mission ranks are you taking? I'm ranked Deadly and I've been taking Elite level missions, and these are mostly Corvettes/Cutters with the occasional Anaconda.

I agree that a sneaky pass took place in regards to the HGE spawn rate; now I'm seeing them everywhere. Keep an eye on the bug reporting thread as I'm sure Cosmo will be filing a complaint as soon as he hears about this.
 
I can't stand super cruise.

Lol Travel everywhere at sublight, start a youtube channel just for video's of your progress.

Your target was a clipper? What mission ranks are you taking? I'm ranked Deadly and I've been taking Elite level missions, and these are mostly Corvettes/Cutters with the occasional Anaconda.

I agree that a sneaky pass took place in regards to the HGE spawn rate; now I'm seeing them everywhere. Keep an eye on the bug reporting thread as I'm sure Cosmo will be filing a complaint as soon as he hears about this.

I meant cutter, the big imperial one.
 
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