Guilds in Elite Dangerous

[breakpointUK]

Yeah, sadly it seems impossible to have an app or game these days without everyone feeling the need to be linked to "friends" or telling them how many levels they've done, etc. I guess if people happened upon a really good game where they can't link to other people somehow they'll probably feel all isolated and lonely and not play it again for fear of missing out on what their friends were up to! I don't really get it but that's probably because I'm old!



Again, yeah. So we don't really need mechanisms to support it then!



And for a third time - yeah! :smilie:

I suppose 'friends' comes with the multiplayer territory and of course things like facebook (not a fan) have inbedded the idea within society

Just referencing the topics in your poll

 

[psykokow]

I fully expect clan websites, giant organised corporations websites sprouting up everywhere as we bite into the fiction and embed ourselves in our own stories..


This needs no code but the sparks of imagination in our HEEDS!!!

I will DEFINATELY be doing something like that IF i can live long enough with all the vendetta's against me.

 

[Minti2]

I fully expect clan websites, giant organised corporations websites sprouting up everywhere as we bite into the fiction and embed ourselves in our own stories..


This needs no code but the sparks of imagination in our HEEDS!!!

I will DEFINATELY be doing something like that IF i can live long enough with all the vendetta's against me.

Agree, a few games i played in with PvP had some very talented Alliance websites designers, apart from he stunning artwork and signatures involved, it was a great social/meeting place for all the members(place names like the War room or Lazy Club)
and most sites where outside the game, some even on FB to help everyone keep up to date quickly in the Alliance goings on.

As for living long enough AP, its not that what worries me, its that nagging feeling your gonna be Emperor of the Empire ten years down the line of ED!

 

[Serpentstar]

I will DEFINATELY be doing something like that IF i can live long enough with all the vendetta's against me.

Haven't you figured it out yet? You are like the lone guy in RUST, sitting in the middle of a large field standing on your sleeping bag. All around the field's perimeter are signs.... "Don't feed the Human, Open hunting season, trophies for the most entertaining kills..."

We all love you. Yes, we do...

 

[OillyRag]

The trouble is it's always going to be a fight, those who don't want clans really couldn't care less if the players who Do want clans get them, the trouble starst when clans start asking for content thats to hard for single players so that they actually have something to do and for completeing that content they want special rewards.

If they get that content then the players who DONT want clans instantly start losing out because there is content designed for large groups that they can't do and gear they can't have.

Content for clans draws devs away from content that can be used by everyone and so by default clan members get to play more of the game than non clan members.

If there is never any content specifically for clans then why bother having them in game? you can group up via the forum or outside the game as a clan in another game for instance or via a friends list In game.

so you either have clan content which isnt fair on non clan members, or theres no point having the clans.

This is a very good post and deserves repeating.

To be fair, I grew up with the original Elite and so I'm not really comfortable with the idea of having to play coop or pvp, but I am willing to try it. Not really willing to join a clan though, it's a bridge to far for me and to be honest I don't think it fits within the Elite ethos and for me it simply wouldn't be fair to have extra content that only guilds could access.
If there is no exclusive content .. Clan up all you like I'm not interested :

 

[Memnoch]

Haven't you figured it out yet? You are like the lone guy in RUST, sitting in the middle of a large field standing on your sleeping bag.

A naked man armed only with a rock? Wow, FD weren't kidding when they called it Iron Man were they!

 

[Gen-Han-Solo]

Something has perked my curiosity about this community/site

Im talking about threads on corps/clans/player groupings whatever you might want to call them.

I dont see any! Am i missing a part of the forum or something think ive looked everywhere?

If anyone goes over to the SC forums they have a section there specifically for people to post in advertising their corps/clans and looking for members to play ingame and that game isnt even out for another 12-18 months. Its a bit ridiculous with the amount that goes on over there but fair play to em i guess.

Here we are with the game breathing down our necks and I see none!

Im not complaining or wanting this sort of thing but im curious why there is a difference.

Is it because we are all at heart a shower of cumudgeonly old introverts that will be doing our own thing and be damned to this multiplayer co-operation thing-a-ma-jig.

Is it because the game isnt lending itself enough somehow to player co-operation in our opinion?

Anyways im a bit surprised. As MP games tend to make people "cluster" and want to get organised.

Their are a few clans and groups of players forming if you look very close my friends and i are in different time zones some are old players from Elite - Elite 2&3 we all play Freelancer . Check as many of the posts as you can we are the -RANGERS- and will be forming groups when we are on line at the same time . I am -Han_Solo- look for my friends and me in game we all play in different ways but form groups to help each other .

 

[Calebe]

In SC there are guilds/clans call it what you will, and the prize could be a Bengal Carrier and who knows what else. The issue with that is unless you belong to one you can forget seeing certain items, gear, equipment etc... That is why in the last thread on the subject most everyone was opposed to it as well as someone being in charge and making rules for the rest. It was not the grouping, friends playing together or new friends just met forming up. It was the real fear as seen in so many games that guilds, (to use a catch all name), will start wanting content exclusively for them to play with as a group, then ask for better rewards because it is harder then just one on one, so we should be rewarded better.

If that happens we split the game to the haves and the have not's, and the asking by the haves for even harder content that only they can access that all the rest help pay for. It escalates to them saying the game is to easy for their better gear and to make it harder, and the rest won't have the ship or gear to compete. The old slippery slope many of have seen and reject for a game such as this.

I reject the idea of a guild and a guild leader making the rules for the rest. They will determine when you will be on and at such and such a time or miss out, or worse decide you know for that great item we won you can't have it, it is better for person X and your person Y.

Seen it to many times and it is always, look we play to improve the guild, not individuals, and without saying it (but in private they will), we know best how you should play your character and that item isn't it for you.

I know some who want guilds will say that isn't their goal at all. I hope it is true, but the fact is to often things change, and for the worst for the majority to please the small but extremely vocal minority. It starts small please just a few things so my guild have some harder things to work against as a group. It goes down hill from there.

I just wanted to restate why there is little talk of it, Elite since the beginning was and is about you, a ship against the great unknown and to win it on your own. True there was no multi player back in the day, and with it, there should be communication. Help each other. Know a good trade route share with a friend if you want. The thing is it is because you want to, and not some 'guild leader' telling anyone what to do or when, or you will share that information.

Calebe

 

[JeffRyan]

Haven't you figured it out yet? You are like the lone guy in RUST, sitting in the middle of a large field standing on your sleeping bag. All around the field's perimeter are signs.... We all love you. Yes, we do...

He's the janitor in LEXX.

 

[Gen-Han-Solo]

In SC there are guilds/clans call it what you will, and the prize could be a Bengal Carrier and who knows what else. The issue with that is unless you belong to one you can forget seeing certain items, gear, equipment etc... That is why in the last thread on the subject most everyone was opposed to it as well as someone being in charge and making rules for the rest. It was not the grouping, friends playing together or new friends just met forming up. It was the real fear as seen in so many games that guilds, (to use a catch all name), will start wanting content exclusively for them to play with as a group, then ask for better rewards because it is harder then just one on one, so we should be rewarded better.

If that happens we split the game to the haves and the have not's, and the asking by the haves for even harder content that only they can access that all the rest help pay for. It escalates to them saying the game is to easy for their better gear and to make it harder, and the rest won't have the ship or gear to compete. The old slippery slope many of have seen and reject for a game such as this.

I reject the idea of a guild and a guild leader making the rules for the rest. They will determine when you will be on and at such and such a time or miss out, or worse decide you know for that great item we won you can't have it, it is better for person X and your person Y.

Seen it to many times and it is always, look we play to improve the guild, not individuals, and without saying it (but in private they will), we know best how you should play your character and that item isn't it for you.

I know some who want guilds will say that isn't their goal at all. I hope it is true, but the fact is to often things change, and for the worst for the majority to please the small but extremely vocal minority. It starts small please just a few things so my guild have some harder things to work against as a group. It goes down hill from there.

I just wanted to restate why there is little talk of it, Elite since the beginning was and is about you, a ship against the great unknown and to win it on your own. True there was no multi player back in the day, and with it, there should be communication. Help each other. Know a good trade route share with a friend if you want. The thing is it is because you want to, and not some 'guild leader' telling anyone what to do or when, or you will share that information.

Calebe

Maybe it's just me but i will be in both games SC you are right is looking more like an empire game , building clans and guilds large groups of players forming navy's . Elite is not aimed at empire building but more at single players playing how they want , but even so a single player trying to survive against a hostile universe . With ncp fleets or even against a small group of ncp pirates how long would they last , or you just want to escort an ncp freighter for pay and need a wing man . Remember the ship you are flying is your home in a dream world we are exploring . And yes my ID in the forum says Gen-Han-Solo it is not my rank just my ID no one is in command of the -RANGERS- . Every one is equal the one forming the group for a mission or trade run or has found a player that needs help would take command . Some times that may mean trying to form a group so we can respond to a may day from an ncp ship who knows .

 

[Mobius]

Elite already has groups or as we know them factions, you are either Empire Federation or independent. you choose your faction, you do missions for your factions and if you see someone not in your faction then you can blast them out of the sky.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I've always wanted to know - how many of these peeps clamouring for guilds / tribes / clans - whatever the fashionable term for them these days is - how many of them can actually afford to pay for a game?

How many of them actually work for a living?

How many of them just sit around and play games all day? Some people are extremely good players, some have the talent for it, some have the time for it, a lucky few have both whilst maintaining a meaningful career.

An awful lot of others simply don't have either, and simply want to be carried along with success by association. An awful lot have simply nothing better to do.

It'd be interesting to find out

I'm sorry - I don't mean that all the unemployed spend all their time gaming, or that anyone good at games is unemployed.

 

[Stachel]

Any discussion that centers on player organization seems to provoke a swivel eyed loon response from some corners of the community. It seems some people just don't want to accept that people will probably be banding together in small or even larger groups to co-ordinate their goals and to play socially.

Given the limited scope for that (instance soft limits, group sorting etc) I don't see the big deal with player run groups in game. I do object to the terminology however: 'clan', 'guild'. What? This isn't WOW. Jeeeez.

EVE's corporate model is a pretty good one to ape. Although given the limitations mentioned above, I'm sure that it could be a simple as just sharing ship decals. The issue with implementing actual organizational group mechanics is the inevitible meta-game issues. Something which would probably only really detract from the game as it has been conceptualized (in the DDF documents).

I say that because ED has not been designed from the ground up as a social game and there are a great many 'casual' elements to the core mechanics that don't lend themselves to co-operative play on any scale. I would also like to remind people that Braben has constantly said he does not envision the core of the game to be about macro resource management and spreadsheets: ED is very much an 'action' game. Designed for accessibility and replayability and therefore will not reward/facilitate/encourage territorialism and monopolization of space or resources beyond a superficial level of detail.

For that reason I am sure that there will be fun superficial affiliations in the future but I'd be surprised if we see true MMO style 'clans', 'guilds', 'corporations' and/or 'alliances'.

 

[jedt]

Any discussion that centers on player organization seems to provoke a swivel eyed loon response from some corners of the community. It seems some people just don't want to accept that people will probably be banding together in small or even larger groups to co-ordinate their goals and to play socially.

i think you are conflating objection to a formal implementation of clans in the game and the ad hoc formation of social groups. by formal implementation i mean software support. obviously people are going to group together, it would be foolish to think otherwise. but it is a big, and bad, step from that to software support for clan.

 

[Herik]

Is it because we are all at heart a shower of cumudgeonly old introverts that will be doing our own thing and be damned to this multiplayer co-operation thing-a-ma-jig.

Uh...yessir, yessir, by crackie! thats me...

 

[Herik]

I do hope there turns out to be good reasons for multiplayer. If everyone just plays lone wolf, I don't really see it lasting beyond the first couple of updates.

This might be a good point Slawkenbergius; but again were assuming the overwhelming number of players will want to Guild or Clan up. I'm of the opinion there's plenty of players who would not care to, and more than enough to make this a viable long term game.

 

[Herik]

I think we would all be surprised to learn the percentage of players that play MMO games and never engage in guilds or grouping.

Good Memnock; thats my opinion as well..

 

[Stachel]

i think you are conflating objection to a formal implementation of clans in the game and the ad hoc formation of social groups. by formal implementation i mean software support. obviously people are going to group together, it would be foolish to think otherwise. but it is a big, and bad, step from that to software support for clan.

I think the conflating going on is from the great many people who view organized player groups as likely to lead to being GRIEFED BY EVIL BAD people and worse: meta gaming. Which many people don't want under any circumstances. I also suggested why that is an irrational fear and why it won't happen. In fact just about all the social proposals (including many core design mechanics relating to loss, death, spawning, instance traversing, groups etc) have been derailed (often subtly) by people trying to conflate all risk with them somehow being griefed and attemping to mitigate this entirely mistaken presumption away.

There seems to be a dedicated group of folks for whom conflict, in particular loss at the hands of other players, under any circumstances, is completely unacceptable and for whom any game design or mooted functionality which detracts from the isolationist play-style is viewed as likely to somehow lead to bullies 'griefing' them.

I think being honest, you can detect this undercurrent in a lot of threads. Especially where people propose game design ideas suggesting more social or co-operative functionality. Its just as case of challenging it for what it is and not allowing it to derail and/or devalue every proposal and idea.

You can also really see the way a lot of folks argue about stuff as rather futile: half the time one or more person/s argue on the premise that ED is an MMO. They assume persistence and anticipate using one or more active profiles indefinitely until they've 'maxed' everything and 'won'. If you check out the DDF its probably more like a single player game with some multiplayer pew and a level of 'emergence' in the background simulation.

There won't be any point hoarding resources, as if you play long enough just doing a 100% milk run you will 'win' the game by accumulating bazillions of credits etc. The game can be easily won in a million different ways - you can even choose who you allow in to your galaxy and filter out any/all risk if you want to.

I reckon a lot of people (who liked the original games) will enjoy this game but I'm predicting a lot of people who are used to more mmo style sandbox play are going to hate it. They will be frustrated by the instances, the group filtering, the lack of ease with which co-op has been designed etc. They will be quickly turned off by the way people can and will simply choose not to encounter them again. I think these kinds of suggestions/threads belay that anxiety.

EVE started out as a sandbox where player conflict was the core - then they introduced the PVE aspect for the 'grind' and 'anti social' players who derived 'achievement' from accumulation and statistical idolatry ie the great many WOW subscribers, whose captive audience dollar the game designers wanted to fill their coffers. Now: ED has been designed principally as a PVE game. The multiplayer aspect is so weak I don't see organized 'clans' working or really being viable prospects which is why I suggest superficial affiliations ie cosmetic, name association, affiliate meta data etc.

 

[Stachel]

Good Memnock; thats my opinion as well..

Its like the percentage of gamers who engage on forums: CCP (makers of EVE Online) worked it out at 2%. Which is why design by committee on internet forums is baaaad for business. Its also why publishers won't invest in companies who don't have a solid track record in producing commercially viable games. There's a reason gaming has become like Hollywood movies; homogenized, reductive, dumbed down, generic etc. It makes money.

 

[Herik]

Hi there, new Player around (introduction here).

Sure, in a MMO environment it's nice to have ingame functionality for managing "clans" or "corporations" ...
But i, just speaking for myself, wouldn't miss it.
It's what somehow drove me away from MMO gaming. Clanrules, no time ingame for myself, everyone looking if i'm online or not, "forced" clanchat...
That's all nothing i can't avoid, but IF i'm in a clan, i tend to do and play more than i like and should. If you play at times you don't want to, the game becomes your enemy over time.

I don't say, ED should never have a clan system, there are lots of people that want to group up in a permanent way... i just say that i can live without

Welcome Jorlin; These are good people,...enjoy. Your comments all about the 'expectancies' from members in Clans and Guilds turning you off; I feel the same about this. I never could play (my) game.