Guilds in Elite Dangerous

[Jax]

I know the social network idea isn't popular - I've mentioned it in the past and been shot down for it.

All I'm pointing out is the tools are out there, readily available, and re-inventing the wheel isn't always the best plan.

I'm also in technology, and I always try and choose the Occam's Razor solution to any problem if possible.

All my friends are on Facebook and G+, to do the "play with your mates" thing promised in the Kickstarter it would just make things easier IMO. Whatever...

The only problem with trying to use anything "out of game" is that when people are playing they tend not to be looking at them, and a shout for "help" tend to go unanswered.

In that kin in LotRO we used to run fun events, like trying to run from Bree to Rivendell. Easy you might think, but not when you were level 6 with no armour on!

The point being a lot of people would rarely look at forums for these events, and would need to be told in game that we were going to do it as well - which worked.

 

[Squicker]

The point being a lot of people would rarely look at forums for these events, and would need to be told in game that we were going to do it as well - which worked.

This is true, to the point that we even forget to check our own guild website in ESO for upcoming events and have to be reminded in game guild chat to enrol on the website. It seems us gamers are so single-minded in our pursuit of gaming we do literally forget the outside world exists.

How - for example - if I were playing using an Oculus Rift, would I switch in and out of a grouping mechanism that was not integrated fully into the game and therefore being presented to me clearly via the OR? - I realise Juniper is talking about somehow integrating social network APIs into the game, but I wonder how fully that could be done.

 

[Juniper]

Issue is you cannot be assured that all players are hooked into the chosen API (have an account) but one thing you can be sure of is that all ED players have an ED account. I would not create a Facebook\G+\other account merely to effectively play a game, even ED which I have backed and am patiently awaiting. I'd simply either not purchase the game or in the case of ED, stick to the solo method.

This is the nub of it I guess. I always hate when games require you to sign up to their social network or install their spam launcher to play a game (Origin, I'm looking at you...). It would naturally put me off.

However, FB, G+, Steam, etc as an option might not be so bad. Like the Steam thing... nobody ever suggested FD sell the game exclusively via Steam, but they'd be crazy not to provide it as an option. But that's a different thread.

 

[JosiahD]

For a lot of us "pro guildies" as you like to label us, it's purely for the social aspect of it. Personally I would hate to see guild banks, guild owned stations, raids or anything of this ilk added to the game - not interested and I would strongly oppose anything like that - that is not what Elite is.

I played LotRO for a number of years and was a member of a kin where there was no aim, nothing, just a bunch of old codgers (male and female) who just wanted to come online, having a laugh with like-minded people and help each other out. We were not interested in raids or anything like that. We had two rules. Must be over 30 to join, and you can’t be a complete t**t. While in that guild I met some amazing people who, even though I’ve stopped playing now, I am still extremely good friends with.

I don't like using the words "Guilds", "corps" or anything as they summon up the worst images of what an MMO can offer. Maybe we should call them "Unions". Why unions? Because all members will have a vote, just like we will be getting in groups. One person will create it and will invite anyone who wants to join. Anyone who is a member can invite someone else. Anyone can get removed with a vote, even the person who created it. Would it work like that? In a decent one possibly.

Please don’t label us as all a bunch of power hungry zealots who want to rule everything we see, or a bunch of sheep who “need” a leader. Some of us would just like to see a little more of the social side of an MMO in the game.

Unfortunately the small(?) number of guilds that have in other games had objectives of ruining the games of other people means that good intentioned guilds will suffer for the actions of that minority. I completely agree that guild functionality would not be the problem in and of itself, it's the fact that there are those that will abuse that functionality to the detriment of a significant proportion of the playerbase, which in the end will only be a negative for the game as a whole. From my perspective, I'd rather have no guild functionality at all than allow it only to have some group like Goonswarm or an equivalent minded group be given a disproportionate influence over the game.

 

[Jax]

Unfortunately the small(?) number of guilds that have in other games had objectives of ruining the games of other people means that good intentioned guilds will suffer for the actions of that minority. I completely agree that guild functionality would not be the problem in and of itself, it's the fact that there are those that will abuse that functionality to the detriment of a significant proportion of the playerbase, which in the end will only be a negative for the game as a whole. From my perspective, I'd rather have no guild functionality at all than allow it only to have some group like Goonswarm or an equivalent minded group be given a disproportionate influence over the game.

I know where you are coming from, and having played Eve for a while have first hand experience of it - on the receiving end I might add, and I really didn't like Eve because of that.

However, If a number of people - lets call them idiots, that's what they are - want to try and ruin a game for others it will make little difference whether guild functionality is implemented or not. They will gather on forums, join groups in games and be ar*****es anyway. Luckily FD have already something in place for this, which I know some people don't like, but the ability to go from MP to SP Online will actually help take away a lot of fun these idiots would hope to have. Which for me is a good thing.

 

[Joe Spivey]

Funny you say that .. I also don't have Facebook / Google+ / LinedIn either and yes I am from a technology background ... My niece on the other hand ... OMG! Do you have a personal life at all ?!

Same here. I have never seen the faces of the two teenagers who live next door, just the tops of their heads. I have yet to see them even look up from the phone/pad in their hands.

 

[Komemiute]

<grins> The absence of guild support is one reason why I might be playing MP.

Same here...

 

[Squicker]

Same here. I have never seen the faces of the two teenagers who live next door, just the tops of their heads. I have yet to see them even look up from the phone/pad in their hands.

Now, my wife she has Facebook and Twitter. and I have read it and I make the following observation:

In the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy one species is cursed by being made telepathic and so having to put up with the ongoing banal thoughts of all their fellows.

For humans, that curse is Twitter and Facebook; an endless photostream of cats, kids, plates of food and banal thoughts.

At least here we target our endless stream of thoughts onto one subject we all love!

 

[Jax]

There is of course another reason why FD may not want them in game, and quite rightly so, beside having to code it up, they will consume resources on FDs server(s), more data on networks, and everything behind the scenes that may happen. Anything permanent would need to be hosted with them (possibly) and this is something they are trying to avoid so as not to have subscriptions.

It would be really nice to have, that extra social element, which in my opinion would be a great benefit to the game, but if we never see it I can understand why - and it wont stop me playing!

 

[Storagebod]

I know where you are coming from, and having played Eve for a while have first hand experience of it - on the receiving end I might add, and I really didn't like Eve because of that.

However, If a number of people - lets call them idiots, that's what they are - want to try and ruin a game for others it will make little difference whether guild functionality is implemented or not. They will gather on forums, join groups in games and be ar*****es anyway. Luckily FD have already something in place for this, which I know some people don't like, but the ability to go from MP to SP Online will actually help take away a lot of fun these idiots would hope to have. Which for me is a good thing.

I tend to agree but let's see what FD start to roll-out in the way of social tools? Let's see what mechanisms that they put in place for group communications for example.

We will have various grouping mechanism which will allow birds of a feather to flock together and play together.

I think the biggest objection to guilds is the inevitable requests for guild content...guild banks, guild hangars, end-game content, guild territory and the likes.

I've been in some really nice small guilds...generally with other old gits (and their kids)....entire families at times. But I've also seen really large and obnoxious guilds.

 

[Squicker]

I've been in some really nice small guilds...generally with other old gits (and their kids)....entire families at times. But I've also seen really large and obnoxious guilds.

The large ones tend towards unpleasant or at least not particularly social. At first they are the ones you look for because you think you'll be able to group more easily with more members, but past a point it's the opposite. The guild becomes so impersonal everyone just does their own thing and you may as well be non-guilded.

As you say, the other old gits and the smaller units work well. It's nice if you can actually remember most people who log-in, that's what generates a nice community spirit.

 

[Juniper]

As you say, the other old gits and the smaller units work well. It's nice if you can actually remember most people who log-in, that's what generates a nice community spirit.

This I think is exactly the kind of dynamic that FD are looking for, with their Alliances / Wings / Groups. People you know (possibly in RL, possibly not) who have the same attitude to the game that you do & want to play with you. For me, with family commitments etc, I don't get to play games whenever I want, so it will be a casual thing that I'll play for 3-4 hours a week on average, and at different (odd) times.

What puts me off guilds in other games (EVE, ESO, EQ, others I've played) is the despotism & commitment to play at set times.

 

[Squicker]

What puts me off guilds in other games (EVE, ESO, EQ, others I've played) is the despotism & commitment to play at set times.

Yes, that's unpleasant but I think there's a real push away from that. We start to see a lot of guilds specifically say, "we know life comes first", I guess because some people got as fed up as you and I with the rule of 'guild before life'.

And those smaller guilds (often populated with old gits like myself!) are great because you don't feel bad if you want to ask for help doing content you know everyone else completed months ago (this is ALWAYS the case for me), or you want to try a new build which could possibly get you all killed. Or you want to try tanking for the first time and you wipe 10 times in a row.

I had a guild like that in Rift, really felt at home there, and when they released the Storm Legion add-on, it was so big a lot of guildies did not want to do the new grind and the guild just ended up naturally disbanding. I could never find another guild quite like it and I ended up leaving the game. Thankfully I found a group of people like that in ESO, which is good because I am so behind the curve due to work and family life, the usual.

Interestingly, I've been asked to join a lot of guilds for SC and they all seem really chilled and not overly achievement orientated.

So yes, we can only see how it'll pan out in ED. I suppose if there are a lot of people telling FD it's not working out socially, they will change it, but it can be something that puts people off quite quickly, you know, if they are finding grouping for their play style quite hard.

 

[Jax]

What puts me off guilds in other games (EVE, ESO, EQ, others I've played) is the despotism & commitment to play at set times.

Hate them, they are not for me. I tried it in LotRO, joined a "raiding" guild just to see what it was like. I think I lasted two days before I told the "leader" where to go.

But in any game with guilds that comes down to personal choice. You decide what you want to join. Me, just a bunch of other old gits I can moan at when I am on is all I want.

 

[Andy Kappa]

Curious this techie anti-social-network thing. Although not involved for many years now, I was a first-generation I.T. co-ordinator in the '80's and early '90's (I may actually have taught members of this very forum ). These days I see myself as a retired musician and reformed I.T. professional, and normally go out of my way to avoid direct exposure to computer parts and any software that might require me to actually write some code. Oh, and I'm an avid proponent of plain English

I don't do social networking either.

On the social mechanic front I can only say that for me personally it's fine as it is although I wouldn't have an issue with something being added, so long as it couldn't be used in-game to do the kind of things that have already been discussed at some length on the thread.

 

[TimYersidies]

[SNIP]

• 1 - Either:
  • A means to flag my commander as to the type of game play I am interested in. (Pirate, BH, Trader, Explorer, Coop, PvP, Missions - You can tick more than 1 box.) Then this needs to be searchable in-game if you don't mark yourself as private. ETA: Perhaps to the search engine you can add a radius to which you are willing to travel to meet people.
  • Community chat channels - Searchable, like radio stations, that flag what kind of activities they are interested, their goals, etc, and players can search for them and join.

• 2- The benefit is that it allows for players who think along similar goals and want to experience the same kind of game play can easily find each other. As it stands you can add people to your friends list from people you already know and people you find on the forum / bump into in the game. Being as space is huge and not everyone reads the forums this will aid people looking for others to play with.

• 3- Longevity of the game. People are social animals (despite many posts in the Forum that indicate to the contrary) It is fundamentally important for FD to develop solid social tools. See here for a current understanding of what FD has and what I believe is missing.

[SNIP]

This is the core of the social issue for me. The most fun I have had in any MMO has been where I have joined a group of like minded people who I have played with and chatted with on TS.

My suggestion in line with the quoted post (+1) is that the "groups" above have a reputation system. Any player can choose to join such a group and starts with zero reputation for that group.

Players in the group can up or down vote another player in that group.

Anyone can see your player rating for this group.

This would allow me to meet another player either in game or on the forums and get a feel of what they are like. The problem is the system above is still open to abuse by large organised groups.

To control abuse you only allow people to join X groups and that they must remain in the group for Y time. I would also allow a player to create a group but that player would have no special privileges. Again this would need an abuse control of one groups per X weeks. Same for rep voting X votes per Y days.

I think this covers what I would like out of a group mechanic whilst avoiding the problems the majority perceive with a more traditional system.

 

[Myspace Kaitsu80]

Only groups I can imagine with what we have now and planned could be somehow connected to NPC military/local defence force, where you get same comms/grouping and quickly penalized from actions that group does not support.

And ofc pirates at borders of anarchy space could just as well have through some comms (they can use TS or Mumble anyway) some station/base agreed as a "home"... And well, why not give them same instances in quiet anarchy systems too?

 

[Atinus]

In order for a game to survive a long time there needs to be a community built around players, and for those players to be able to communicate with each other and find others of like minds. Players equates to sales when addon packs are developed - players also equate to MicroTransaction sales : all things to keep FD in a job to develop and enhance ED.

Guilds / Corporations / Communities .. call it what you like:

• 1 - Either:
  • A means to flag my commander as to the type of game play I am interested in. (Pirate, BH, Trader, Explorer, Coop, PvP, Missions - You can tick more than 1 box.) Then this needs to be searchable in-game if you don't mark yourself as private. ETA: Perhaps to the search engine you can add a radius to which you are willing to travel to meet people.
  • Community chat channels - Searchable, like radio stations, that flag what kind of activities they are interested, their goals, etc, and players can search for them and join.

• 2- The benefit is that it allows for players who think along similar goals and want to experience the same kind of game play can easily find each other. As it stands you can add people to your friends list from people you already know and people you find on the forum / bump into in the game. Being as space is huge and not everyone reads the forums this will aid people looking for others to play with.

• 3- Longevity of the game. People are social animals (despite many posts in the Forum that indicate to the contrary) It is fundamentally important for FD to develop solid social tools. See here for a current understanding of what FD has and what I believe is missing.

ETA:
There doesn't need to be any specific "guild" content - I play Diablo 3 which introduced recently the concept of clans and community channels. As I play Hardcore (die you're dead) the game is all about the community because if you do die and have to start out at level 1 then having people who are willing to help you back on your feet keeps you in game. Prior to the introduction of the community channels the game felt dead - all my friends no longer played D3, you did meet people in game for sure but not everyone was into talking. Playing Hardcore is not everyone's cup of tea so the active number of players is vastly reduced (at peak times I find 100s of games in Hardcore and 1000s of games in normal ) so finding a community of like minded people and being able to talk to them keeps me there ... without the community I would have quit D3 a long time ago.

Do I get a cookie now ?

Finally,some solid suggestions for Frontier to consider to leverage the current plan for in-game communications. Thanks, Liqua.

Being able to find like-minded commanders makes a lot of sense to me. So, a station bulletin board system might do the trick, and being able to search outside the system and send instant messages makes sense to me in the multiplayer: "You're on Zaonce, I'm at Diso, let's meet at Lave and go hunt pirates!"

So, the bulletin boards could just be pilots looking for assistance, they could be posting missions, you name it. But I really like Liqua's suggestions to assist with matchmaking for cooperative efforts in-game. Hopefully, we'll see something like this in Beta.

 

[lemonsquid]

Guilds?

Will there be any guilds/clans that you can form amongst your friends? I find it very intriguing that you can help push a system to attack another and annex it. It would be very neat to do this alongside a fellow guild/clan.

 

[Robert Maynard]

No guild support as such, however I would recommend that you investigate this link, especially "Factions and Causes" & "Player Groups".