Sorry who's being insulting again? Along with dismissive, prejudiced, judgemental, tribal, frankly disgraceful and a bunch of other words I can think of if you want me to.
Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?
- Thread starter MyHammer
- Start date
Sorry who's being insulting again? Along with dismissive, prejudiced, judgemental, tribal, frankly disgraceful and a bunch of other words I can think of if you want me to.
Well you could point.
I have to agree. While I understand the reasoning behind your concern, Ziljan, I don't believe it will go that route. I don't think it would even if you had a famous 70% poll in favour of 3rd person piloting. I know you're being vigilant, but what do you think Vegas would put the odds at, and how much money would you be willing to put on that bet?
So you're just making up motives to score forum points?
It's cool with me if you are, but just wanted to you know that I know.
Seriously, I think you need to step away from the forum take a breather and come back in a few hours when you are cooled down, because your posts make less and less sense and seem to be more about personal attacks on people then talking about the issue?
you're going to have to understand their ways and work with them; if you can't, find someone who can. if you don't want to do that, then don't, there's plenty of hills to die/write fanfiction on
just don't tell yourself it's impossible because you'll be telling yourself that a lot otherwise
I would put it at 50/50 in 6 months. We'll have to see how it develops. But you can see from the rancor and emotional arguments and ad hominem attacks already forming within the mob, it's not going to be a cut and dry non-issue that you seem to think it will be, nor will it be a guaranteed victory when the real forum wars begin.
We're not even in BETA yet!
Last edited:
Motives? No, just calling out what you factually did in that post.
Do you have issues with facts now?
Oh c'mon... all that lore s''t is driving me crazy. The thurth is that frontiers bent itself for money purpose. They are loosing integrity game mechanics just for wide the game audience.... good luck in that way. After CQC, Powerplay etc i'm still using the game as the first beta. Not a single update was done in the correct direction.and this is the last on a big series of failures. Frontiers, when you'll choose to make a game without compromise i'll be in again. Enough is enough
Careful m8 you've pretty much described most of your responses. The developer has no interest in a replacement for first person. The improved camera is a good thing. How the external view for gunner works out, we'll see from beta.
But supposition and assumption and name calling are no susbstiture for logic and facts, and I much prefer debating topics with you when you have that logic and facts in tow.
You know what? Just stop. For your own sake, for the sake of whoever you associate with, you are making yourself look worse and worse with every post and the second hand embarassment is just getting unbearable. Never mind facts of reality, you can't even grasp the basics of communication.
A direct response is not the same thing as an answer to a question.
Your opinion about 'arcadists' is not the same thing as a factual evil cabal of twitch gamers conspiring to undermine a goddamn video game from the inside. This one doesn't even make sense, how would 'arcade twitch gamers' ever have the patience to play a game like this, let alone put the effort in to 'degrade' it? If I wanted to play Elite as a competitive shooter in third person, guess what, games like that exist already and the people who want to play them are playing them.
If someone asks you a question, you think that you've answered it, then they ask you it again, guess what mate you didn't answer it well enough the first time. Telling people to go back and reread the first answer is smug, condescending and immediately turns off anyone from ever wanting to listen to you.
Slippery slope arguments are not logical. Proof by induction only works in pure mathematics. A puppy that doubles in size over the course of a year will not be the size of the Taj Mahal in a decade. Your feelings are not facts no matter who you insult and throw into made-up outgroups.
Now that would have been a great idea. But it would have taken time and work. But I would have been happy to wait if it was going to be good.
Who said anything about Frontier's "intention"? The reality is that people will connect the dots eventually, put 2 and 2 together to make 4, because like it or not, 3rd person piloting is the next logical step from what we've seen so far in 2.3 live streams. And Frontier is nothing if not a responsive company. Almost to a fault. Granted there will be plenty of people on both sides and grades in between, pushing and pulling the game. I don't have the same faith that you do that Frontier's vision for the game is strong enough to resist requests for "seemingly harmless" alternate combat cams.
Yaffle
Volunteer Moderator
It's a whoop of baboons and a flange of gorillas.
Now, while I am here and have your attention, cut out the personal attacks, sniping, baiting and fighting.
Alright, where do you suggest we pick up from? Cause all we've got aside from that is an argument based in logic that doesn't stand up to the most basic of scrutiny.
Yaffle
Volunteer Moderator
How about here:
Ok, got your attention.(Apologies to all the 12yr olds out there)
There are several parts I do like about multicrew, but I think I should adress
what bothers me about it at the first glance:
Its clear that FD takes the route here to an Arcade sort of gameplay which breaks
a lot rules of the ed universe, and one of them is that cam view.
I am not against the 360 view, what bothers me is that its not immersive in
the sense of being physically possible in any way. If FD would have
made it more schematic, so that the ship itself is a rendered wireframe and the spacebackground is replaced with something else, I would be able to believe
I have some sort of tactical view which is rendered by the ships computer.
But having like a "real" 360 degree cam which is not even existant (or can you shoot it down?) is by all means totally destroying any immersion (for me)
Sure, many of you will like it, but I had hoped FD would somehow maintain
some consistent ingame rules with their features.
Update:
In the thread I gave an example why for some players the fun can be spoiled be unlogical gameplay features:
In a movie, you expect when a person leaves the screen on the right side that it would appear after the cut on the left side. That`s a learned logic of how films work in general. If that doesn´t happen you might not really be able to put a finger on it, but it nudges on the back of your brain, and you might feel slightly irritated. Of course, editors use that in certain cases to make a movie more dramatic.
I think the same thing is happening in ED when certain rules are being ignored or put aside in favor of "fun-gameplay". Some (a lot?) players, get that uneasy feeling when the logic of the gameworld is compromised with certain (mostly new) additions which breaks ingame rules and therefore their fun is spoiled to some extent (some other compromises to gameplay have been accepted and are learned like instatransfer after death, etc.)
The solution would be for FD to find a compromise, where you still can have fun, but it won´t give you that nudge in the back of your brain.
In regard to the gunner view, it wouldnt hurt the fun, when you have a more holographic (however this is implemented - there were some nice ideas already mentioned in the thread) style of view, where you actually see a difference to the "normal/real" view of the universe. That would IMHO restore the immersion (still not solving the cmdr hologram transfers across the galaxy, but thats another story).
If there is nothing further to add, then there's nothing further to post.
Last edited:
I agree on principle, which is why I only make observations about people and situations based on direct evidence, not emotion. But when people don't agree on facts, then no meaingful or fruitful debate is possible.
If you read back on the history of this thread as I suggested originally then you'd see the truth of it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah the thing is I don't operate on faith. I operate via logic and consistency. Believe what you want to believe, I'll stick to the facts. And those facts are as of today, right now, there is no replacement for first person in ships.
It's not been announced. It's not been hinted. There is nothing stated or on the roadmap for that to happen. If that changes, then I will be in the trenches to protest to Frontier.
But it is not and no amount of emotional pleading will provide a replacement for the facts. Which stand as they do today, where there is no replacement for first person.
If that changes. I will take notice. But it has not and frontier has been very communicative about its vision for how the camera works and third-person in general.
Ok, got your attention.
There are several parts I do like about multicrew, but I think I should adress
what bothers me about it at the first glance:
Its clear that FD takes the route here to an Arcade sort of gameplay which breaks
a lot rules of the ed universe, and one of them is that cam view.
I am not against the 360 view, what bothers me is that its not immersive in
the sense of being physically possible in any way. If FD would have
made it more schematic, so that the ship itself is a rendered wireframe and the spacebackground is replaced with something else, I would be able to believe
I have some sort of tactical view which is rendered by the ships computer.
But having like a "real" 360 degree cam which is not even existant (or can you shoot it down?) is by all means totally destroying any immersion (for me)
Sure, many of you will like it, but I had hoped FD would somehow maintain
some consistent ingame rules with their features.
Update:
In the thread I gave an example why for some players the fun can be spoiled be unlogical gameplay features:
In a movie, you expect when a person leaves the screen on the right side that it would appear after the cut on the left side. That`s a learned logic of how films work in general. If that doesn´t happen you might not really be able to put a finger on it, but it nudges on the back of your brain, and you might feel slightly irritated. Of course, editors use that in certain cases to make a movie more dramatic.
I think the same thing is happening in ED when certain rules are being ignored or put aside in favor of "fun-gameplay". Some (a lot?) players, get that uneasy feeling when the logic of the gameworld is compromised with certain (mostly new) additions which breaks ingame rules and therefore their fun is spoiled to some extent (some other compromises to gameplay have been accepted and are learned like instatransfer after death, etc.)
The solution would be for FD to find a compromise, where you still can have fun, but it won´t give you that nudge in the back of your brain.
In regard to the gunner view, it wouldnt hurt the fun, when you have a more holographic (however this is implemented - there were some nice ideas already mentioned in the thread) style of view, where you actually see a difference to the "normal/real" view of the universe. That would IMHO restore the immersion (still not solving the cmdr hologram transfers across the galaxy, but thats another story).
Alright so the way I see it this post comes down to literally one thing, the idea that the third person view isn't physically possible and therefore breaks the nebulous concept of immersion. Third person view is physically possible and multiple examples have been provided throughout this thread of how it could be accomplished, therefore immersion isn't broken.
Ziljan, shall we start over? What is your point and what is your logical basis for believing you are correct?