Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?

[Goose4291]

Where did Michael Brookes say that? Written down or sold that way? Lets say I might just might believe you (not until I see evidence). Where does a "Cockpit experience from a 1st person perspective" mean that all other camera views are forbidden. Did it say exclusive? If so, then do not expect space legs. Dont use an SRV because its not in a ship. Do not use ship launched fighters, because that is not your cockpit, its telepresence.

If they just add a little drone to the camera system outside of the ship, then this whole argument is over. It is a first person view provided by a Drone whose camera has been slaved to the gunner telepresence pilot.

It wasnt michael brookes. It was another developer. It got quoted middway through this thread

- - - Updated - - -

"Half the reason to ensure any 3rd person view can't be used effectively in a combat situation is for unfairness and forcing the path of least resistance on all players undermining all our work in the cockpit.

The second and arguably more important half is that a 3rd person way to play the game runs completely counter to the experience we're trying to sell; that is you, the pilot, experiencing space flight and combat from a first person view, the most immersive way to play the game."

Mike Evans - Designer- Elite: Dangerous. 22/11/2013

 

[Ian Skippy]

It wasnt michael brookes. It was another developer. It got quoted middway through this thread

- - - Updated - - -

"Half the reason to ensure any 3rd person view can't be used effectively in a combat situation is for unfairness and forcing the path of least resistance on all players undermining all our work in the cockpit.

The second and arguably more important half is that a 3rd person way to play the game runs completely counter to the experience we're trying to sell; that is you, the pilot, experiencing space flight and combat from a first person view, the most immersive way to play the game."

Mike Evans - Designer- Elite: Dangerous. 22/11/2013

And totally out of context. Which was pointed out but hey, who cares for truth.

 

[BurnyBurns]

It wasnt michael brookes. It was another developer. It got quoted middway through this thread

A link to the actual quote would be handy. A deep link if it's a video or a link to whichever post contains the quote. Unless I overlooked it (this thread moves fast), the poster first bringing up that quote failed to provide one when I asked.

And totally out of context. Which was pointed out but hey, who cares for truth.

Which would explain why they would refrain from actually providing a reference, but push their "that's not the game I've paid for"-narration. For all I know, the quote could be made up, as legitimate as it seems.

 

[CylonSurfer]

How can you not know the difference between 3rd person and 1st person? So in the turret view your sat outside the SRV and above it are you? How are you magically floating there?

Or anyother way to think of it is they switch your first person view in the ship to the first person view of the targeting drones camera system with ship enhanced sensor data on the overlay.


Either way you wish to spin it it means nothing.

I'm not talking about your "how the make believe tech works in the fictional game world" - I'm talking about what the game engine does when you switch to the SRV turret - it moves from the FPC to a TPC. There is no spin there at all, you are confusing the real world with what you want to believe is happening in the in game world. The SRV turret is a third person camera as per the diagram.

 

[Ian Skippy]

A link to the actual quote would be handy. A deep link if it's a video or a link to whichever post contains the quote. Unless I overlooked it (this thread moves fast), the poster first bringing up that quote failed to provide one when I asked.

A lot of the whining is like this. Fd already said in 2015 (yes, 2015) multicrew in s2 would be strictly multiplay. Turrets were already described as a role before launch. It was confirmed multiple times that beyond turrets we shoukdnt expect major new multicrew mechanics in s2.

FD delivered what they sold. People want moar, get their hopes up for no reason and throw a hissy fit when disappointed.

SAD!

Which would explain why they would refrain from actually providing a reference, but push their "that's not the game I've paid for"-narration. For all I know, the quote could be made up, as legitimate as it seems.

He added the quote now. Its about the actual flying, and why there is no external cam. Its why the new camera suiteis intentionally borked for combat: you are supposed to do that in 1st person. But it doesnt relate to turret cam, nor to vanity cam. It was strictly about how 1v1 combat should be, and the advantages 3rd person would offer at the cost of immersion.

 

[BurnyBurns]

I'm not talking about your "how it works in the fictional game" - I'm talking about what the game does when you switch to the SRV turret - it moves from the FPC to the TPC. There is no spin there at all.

Ah, it was you. Mind blessing us with an actual link to the source of your quote?

 

[Goose4291]

And totally out of context. Which was pointed out but hey, who cares for truth.

I dont personally see how its out of context, if correct.

"A 3rd person way to play the game runs completely counter to the experience we're trying to sell"

I dont see how that can be taken out of context :/

A link to the actual quote would be handy. A deep link if it's a video or a link to whichever post contains the quote. Unless I overlooked it (this thread moves fast), the poster first bringing up that quote failed to provide one when I asked.



Which would explain why they would refrain from actually providing a reference, but push their "that's not the game I've paid for"-narration. For all I know, the quote could be made up, as legitimate as it seems.

I suggest you find dragons to slay elsewhere. Im on spotty internet till april which costs a fortune if I go over my limit, so hunting through video blogs isnt on my list of to do. Im merely referring to something that was mentioned previously.

 

[CylonSurfer]

I dont personally see how its out of context, if correct.

"A 3rd person way to play the game runs completely counter to the experience we're trying to sell"

I dont see how that can be taken out of context :/

Nor do I but hey!

 

[Zambrick]

It wasnt michael brookes. It was another developer. It got quoted middway through this thread

- - - Updated - - -

"Half the reason to ensure any 3rd person view can't be used effectively in a combat situation is for unfairness and forcing the path of least resistance on all players undermining all our work in the cockpit.

The second and arguably more important half is that a 3rd person way to play the game runs completely counter to the experience we're trying to sell; that is you, the pilot, experiencing space flight and combat from a first person view, the most immersive way to play the game."

Mike Evans - Designer- Elite: Dangerous. 22/11/2013

Is combat the the way to play the game? Is it the way you fly and perform combat. Doesn't that quote also have absolutely nothing to do with the type of question being asked of the developer? Ifs that statement by Mike that is being used out of context entirely from the question he was being asked your only argument? If so then I stand corrected. Not only are you FPS only crowd are wrong, you are utterly and completely delusional. In any case did Mike say this applied to a multicrew ship? The conversation had nothing to do with multicrew.

Finally is Mike Evans the only developer of Elite Dangerous? Does he speak for the entire Development team else? No he is just one of many game designers at FDEV. Your entire argument is based off of an out of context singular interview with one of the many many game developers at FDEV.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Immersion crowd: people with little imagination or interest in scu-fi, so they need world-war-2 mechanics to feel immersed in the distant future.

Wrong on every level. Try harder.

- - - Updated - - -

It wasnt michael brookes. It was another developer. It got quoted middway through this thread

- - - Updated - - -

"Half the reason to ensure any 3rd person view can't be used effectively in a combat situation is for unfairness and forcing the path of least resistance on all players undermining all our work in the cockpit.

The second and arguably more important half is that a 3rd person way to play the game runs completely counter to the experience we're trying to sell; that is you, the pilot, experiencing space flight and combat from a first person view, the most immersive way to play the game."

Mike Evans - Designer- Elite: Dangerous. 22/11/2013

Michael Brookes did say that. I need to look up the post now. Yep, that other developer said that as well. So we have two reasons why.

Here are a few quotes:
We absolutely think the cockpit is necessary, we are looking at some situations and methods for external views, but the primary interface is the cockpit. It is the environment in which you exist as much as the method by which you control the game.

Michael

Some of the HUD comes via implants, so there will be some commonality and visibility when you're not in the pilot's chair. However the cockpit has always been a physical presence for us, so the simple answer is that we want it that way

Michael

 

[Ian Skippy]

Wrong on every level. Try harder.

Considering I am very happy with how 2'3 is shaping up, I dont have to try anything.

 

[Zambrick]

Wrong on every level. Try harder.

- - - Updated - - -



Michael Brookes did say that. I need to look up the post now. Yep, that other developer said that as well. So we have two reasons why.

Provide links or proof. Your words mean nothing.

 

[lysan]

It wasnt michael brookes. It was another developer. It got quoted middway through this thread

- - - Updated - - -

"Half the reason to ensure any 3rd person view can't be used effectively in a combat situation is for unfairness and forcing the path of least resistance on all players undermining all our work in the cockpit.

The second and arguably more important half is that a 3rd person way to play the game runs completely counter to the experience we're trying to sell; that is you, the pilot, experiencing space flight and combat from a first person view, the most immersive way to play the game."

Mike Evans - Designer- Elite: Dangerous. 22/11/2013

The internet is full of statements saying 3rdpv is a no go....

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=187897#post187897
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=187584#post187584

There is a reason why 3PPV is a bad thing...

Spoiler

 

[Ian Skippy]

I dont personally see how its out of context, if correct.

"A 3rd person way to play the game runs completely counter to the experience we're trying to sell"

I dont see how that can be taken out of context :/



I suggest you find dragons to slay elsewhere. Im on spotty internet till april which costs a fortune if I go over my limit, so hunting through video blogs isnt on my list of to do. Im merely referring to something that was mentioned previously.

He was talking about piloting the ship in combat. Which still applies. He is not talking about things like turret cam or vanity cam.

Deal with that as you must, but please dont try to gather support where none is to be had. Just say you disagree with FD, which is totally fine.

 

[CylonSurfer]

Is combat the the way to play the game? Is it the way you fly and perform combat. Doesn't that quote also have absolutely nothing to do with the type of question being asked of the developer? Ifs that statement by Mike that is being used out of context entirely from the question he was being asked your only argument? If so then I stand corrected. Not only are you FPS only crowd are wrong, you are utterly and completely delusional. In any case did Mike say this applied to a multicrew ship? The conversation had nothing to do with multicrew.

Finally is Mike Evans the only developer of Elite Dangerous? Does he speak for the entire Development team else? No he is just one of many game designers at FDEV. Your entire argument is based off of an out of context singular interview with one of the many many game developers at FDEV.

I was asked for a quote where the devs stated there would not be 3rd person cameras usable while flying or in combat. I provided one with little effort. Here is another from Michael Brookes:

"We want this to be you in your cockpit, third person changes the game to something different and isn't what we want for the game.

Michael"

Its certainly not something I'm basing any argument on. I merely stating that many people here, myself included were of the impression due to what had been said by developers both pre and post-launch pointed to the fact that ED wouldn't have third person cameras. Along with the game being marketed as a first person space game. This update doesn't fit with that and people (not everyone) are annoyed - I think that is understandable.

 

[SnowyNI]

It saddens me that we're at the stage now I think that if 'tea drinking' could be an insult, people here would happily use it to attack each other.

Particuarly when we remember what the average age of the playerbase is.

It happens when you sell your soul to the non-pc crowd who are much younger and are apart of the "If it breathes will can kill it!" mentality. Will soon be no old style games left.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Provide links or proof. Your words mean nothing.

He is just frustrated, dont mind him.

 

[jasonbarron]

Nobody likes me well enough to let me crew on their ship anyway, so no big deal I guess.

 

[Zambrick]

The internet is full of statements saying 3rdpv is a no go....

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=187897#post187897
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=187584#post187584

There is a reason why 3PPV is a bad thing...

Spoiler

http://www.bigdamnheroes.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/14jm0sp.jpg

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FantasticHugeBrontosaurus-size_restricted.gif

okay

It's first person all the way Unless we change our minds later.
"notice the Unless we change our minds later."

For the sake of cool screenshots, I hope you have some sort of outside drone camera view available?
We have the ability to do that, I don't know if it'll remain for you guys to play with in that form but I'm sure we would offer some form of tool for doing that sort of thing. I strongly doubt you'll be able to fly your ship whilst doing it though.

"I strongly doubt you'll be able to fly your ship whilst doing it though." The vanity Cam is not combat.

During combat the pilot is flying the ship and in a First Person perspective. It does not mention a gunner.

Both out of context.

 

[Fishy]

Nobody likes me well enough to let me crew on their ship anyway, so no big deal I guess.

Are you trying to do reverse psychology? Because that's how you do reverse psychology. Anyhow, you're welcome on my ship, I'll let you play with my big gun.