Hatch Breakers - The Bad, The Bad, The Impotent

[kfenvy]

the best way to deal with them is just have an point deference next to your cargo hatch. mops them up no problem

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I once suggested hatch breakers should be able to tunnel through shields. The idea wasn't well received though

 

[Julio Montega]

Hatchbreakers? Does anyone use that module?

Beam lasers work way better (single fire to tickle the hatch for maximum profit).

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

The OP is a very scary wall of text...sorry, TLDR...

I however agree that Hatch Breakers desperately need a tweak...especially in PvP piracy.

All we would need for that are hatch breaker controllers releasing respectively 5 / 10 / 20 / 40 canisters for class 1 / 3 / 5 / 7. And the canister must be released in a tight cluster, not an endless line.
Because using a class 1 hatch breaker on a Cobra is fun, but a class 7 on a Clipper makes no sense at the moment. Who cares to spend 20 minutes collecting a dozen of canisters?

We would then see way more pirates and traders may even stop combat log since the deal will be for them to escape ASAP and for the pirate to connect as many limpets as possible while keeping the prey alive.

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Aaand...now that I read the end of the OP, it is basically what has been suggested

 

[goemon]

OP, you are missing something important in your post: shoot out an npc powerplant, then use them, so cargo isn't spilled all over.

that said, i like your ideas to make the higher classes usefull - i only run class 1 hatchbreakers for piracy missions atm.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

OP, you are missing something important in your post: shoot out an npc powerplant, then use them, so cargo isn't spilled all over.

that said, i like your ideas to make the higher classes usefull - i only run class 1 hatchbreakers for piracy missions atm.

PvP wise, this does not work unfortunately.

I also hate the behavior of NPCs regarding their powerplant...no powerplant malfunction but stops dead if reaches 0%...like they have no module priority management at all... :/

 

[Muffindrake]

OP, you are missing something important in your post: shoot out an npc powerplant, then use them, so cargo isn't spilled all over.

Are you sure?

- their low reward for a long hack time makes pirating in space with police extremely unrewarding, since you will not have much time to pick up cargo, even if you manage to completely stop a ship by disabling its power plant.

[...]

- a class 1 beam laser turret is more efficient at extracting cargo from a completely stopped ship than hatch breakers.

 

[goemon]

PvP wise, this does not work unfortunately.

I also hate the behavior of NPCs regarding their powerplant...no powerplant malfunction but stops dead if reaches 0%...like they have no module priority management at all... :/

not all of them, but 95% - yeah.

 

[Julio Montega]

PvP wise, this does not work unfortunately.

I also hate the behavior of NPCs regarding their powerplant...no powerplant malfunction but stops dead if reaches 0%...like they have no module priority management at all... :/

I wouldn't say it does not work at all, but is very hard to achieve.
I once was successful on a T7 with hitting the pp and was able to tickle the hatch with beams,
but it is rather rare to be successful.
In a wing with 2 interdictors/light fighter (cobras and cannons) and 2 large ships for cargo cap,
the odds are way higher.

Maybe the 2.1 missile rework will let the drunken missiles be a suitable stopping method,
i'm gonna try them.
Hatchbreakers however are one of the modules i do not see as useful,
as you can simply tickle the hatch once the pp is out,
saving an internal slot, allowing for collectors to speed up cargo retrieval ops.

 

[goemon]

Are you sure?

[/COLOR]

yes. why?

 

[goemon]

as you can simply tickle the hatch once the pp is out,
saving an internal slot, allowing for collectors to speed up cargo retrieval ops.

problem with npc piracy without hatchbreakers is - many npcs are destroyed, before their cargo hatch is... so, i find the usefull for npc piracy.

 

[Julio Montega]

problem with npc piracy without hatchbreakers is - many npcs are destroyed, before their cargo hatch is... so, i find the usefull for npc piracy.

I do not have those problems on my setup so far:
i use a python currently and gimballed bursts for rapid pp destruction,
you just got to get below or above target for optimal penetration while
keeping very close (below 200 m).

I even pirated Haulers this way with stock hull.
If you take a medium beam, better a small beam and pulse it you are gonna be fine.
*gasp* Beans spilled *gasp*

The fact, that NPCs are flying with rather empty cargo holds however,
is bugging me really hard.
How often have i scanned T9s and T7s just to see that they only have 20-40 tons of cargo on board.
Seriously piracy is not paying up well unless you get lucky with PvP piracy.

 

[AaronWatkins]

I've always found piracy to be the best way of power play grinding (before i just gave up) NPC's without power plants tend to come to an abrupt halt and give me all the time in the world to loot them (provided i got lucky with big ol' t-9s) so the efficiency of my hatch breakers was never a problem...

For PVP, the only option atm is "stop or i shoot" which has its own inherent problems, i feel this is due to the vulnerability of limpets to point defence and slow speeds.

But generally OP has a point.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

PvE piracy works, though I hate that these NPCs (apparently, only 95% of them...) don't know how to manage a dead powerplant...this is so immersion breaking, feels like cheating.

Here is me pirating 14 canisters on a little T6 in less than 2 minutes:

[video=youtube;5w_nuujelPg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w_nuujelPg[/video]
Time to take down the powerplant: 25 seconds
Extraction & collection time: 1 minute
Amount of canisters collected: 14 tons

This does not work in PvP for obvious reasons. I hope the hatch breakers get tweak soon.

 

[goemon]

Seriously piracy is not paying up well unless you get lucky with PvP piracy.

definetly - as long as you are not in a system with scientific reports transporters spawned. i'm not sure, what is triggering it, but that is 1-2 mio per npc... i had it in a system some days in a row.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

definetly - as long as you are not in a system with scientific reports transporters spawned. i'm not sure, what is triggering it, but that is 1-2 mio per npc... i had it in a system some days in a row.

The problem is that other activities (bounty hunting, trading, Robigo...) pay too well.
I am glad I started to played Elite early after launch and enjoyed a slow progression Sidey -> Hauler -> Viper -> Cobra -> Asp...

 

[Vasious]

I once suggested hatch breakers should be able to tunnel through shields. The idea wasn't well received though

Makes sense though as an alternative to
Shoot Shields,
Shoot Cargo Hatch

Hatchbreakers? Does anyone use that module?

Beam lasers work way better (single fire to tickle the hatch for maximum profit).

problem with npc piracy without hatchbreakers is - many npcs are destroyed, before their cargo hatch is... so, i find the usefull for npc piracy.

Class 1 Beam lasers shine here, class 1 weapons have their niches

I have only Pirated/Liberated NPCs but a Class 1 beam to the cargo hatch seems to be the best way, but if AA's suggestion that the Hatch breakers sidestepped shields...

 

[Muffindrake]

The fact, that NPCs are flying with rather empty cargo holds however,
is bugging me really hard.
How often have i scanned T9s and T7s just to see that they only have 20-40 tons of cargo on board.
Seriously piracy is not paying up well unless you get lucky with PvP piracy.

Avoid systems with a Boom state if you are pirating in Supercruise. Ships spawned by this state will mostly have escorts, but a maximum of around 30t (gold, progenitor cells, etc.) of cargo. I reported this as a bug, as even t6/keelback carry more cargo outside a Boom state...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=237931&p=3672062&viewfull=1#post3672062

 

[Lingand]

Asking nicely?

- they are pointless to use on players that aren't worse than bots. It is impossible to get any reasonable amount of cargo out of a player once he's stuck floating at high speed in a direction (3). Starting voice communication and getting your grandmother to ask that person to drop cargo is a more effective measure.

Asking nicely (-ish) is always an option when dealing with CMDRs, if not when dealing with NPCs, especially if you leave the trader a reasonable profit ...

I've only got two ships with fitted with hatch breakers: a Cobra III, and a little Sidewinder (for pure silliness) -- I am more often on the other end of the limpet attempts. The last time my opponent spilled cargo was because my lasers were missing the power plant (and striking the cargo hatch).

 

[Derath]

The only thing I will add is i've been banging this drum for ages i'm really not sure they are interested hatching by doing damage is easier and faster in almost all circumstances, especially on moving ships and limpets are really reserved for stripping disabled NPC's only.

Still + rep for doing such a thorough write up of how bad they are OP lol, it made me kind of sad to read it again

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Avoid systems with a Boom state if you are pirating in Supercruise. Ships spawned by this state will mostly have escorts, but a maximum of around 30t (gold, progenitor cells, etc.) of cargo. I reported this as a bug, as even t6/keelback carry more cargo outside a Boom state...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=237931&p=3672062&viewfull=1#post3672062

As far as i'm aware there is a hard limit on valuable goods, i don't think i've ever seen above 30t of gold or pcells no matter where i've looked, its not related to ship type either T9's still only carry tiny amounts I just found one with 10. I've done boom, bust, warzone, every security type, I've never seen any correlation between what NPC's carry and the systems its entirely random which means its entirely bad