Have PvP'ers Dealt a Fatal Blow to Elite Dangerous?

[Beans]

The "solo" crowd are the ones complaining, and the PvPers are shouting GIT GUD

Your whole post is invalidated by this assumption. The difference in attitude has nothing to do with PvP vs PvE, hardcore vs casual or any of the other straw men being constructed to skew the argument. The difference is that some people like a challenge and others don't.

I don't PvP and have never played in Open, nor do I value combat over other play styles, but I'm really enjoying the new AI and have played more since 2.1 dropped than I have for the last three months. I don't even consider myself a very good gamer as I tend to get frustrated and give up too early, but the new AI has brought back the sense of risk and the need for forethought that the Elite series has always been about. Not trying to appeal to authority but in '84 I never went into anarchies or feudal systems because it was too dangerous.

It's not impossible; it's harder but there is always a way if you use your brain. Check where you're going before you decide to go there, just like real life there are safer areas and less safe areas, except FDev actually state this if you can be bothered to look at the system map.

Another use of your brain would be to check your facts before you start whinging. Fdev curtailed the debug cam, Fdev decided not to make the game Pay-to-Win and Fdev decided that the AI was pathetically easy. Before you claim they're listening to a vocal minority please check out one of the myriad of player surveys on Facebook, Google+ and elsewhere which ask people about the AI... the majority LIKE it, YOU are the vocal minority whinging that the game isn't exactly what YOU want.

If you want to farm easy AI repetitively I think there's another game you can play... Zynga love players with spare money.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I don't PvP, heck a lot of the time I'm exploring in a unarmed Asp. Yet I still think a large problem at the moment is that many people do need to seriously be open to adapting to the new changes and also identifying the extreme cases are very much sourced from bugs not working as intended behaviour.

Reading the OP I seemingly don't exist because what's going on here is this giant "Us versus Them" war where 'They' being PvPers are killing Elite Dangerous for 'Us'.

I gotta say, this thread and some recent others, I really can't believe how firmly some people have their heads firmly lodged up their backsides and try to break everything down into some black & white depiction of warring groups and one group killing the game for everyone else.


Hate to break it to people, but there is no 'Us' or 'Them'. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them part of some elitist combat centric agenda, or part of some 'testosterone junky' audience as a certain dramallama labelled people recently whilst trying to depict everything wrong as catering to some perceived group that is destroying their way of life.

Can we lose the Trumpism from the forums please?

You sound.... reasonable.

 

[Goose4291]

Source?

Also Steamowners and non-Steamowners may not behave in the same way. Steamowner are more likely to have a wider variety of games and a shorter attention span.

Never trust a statistc you haven't faked yourself

What would be an interesting figure would be daily steam usage vs. the number of people who took the Steam Keys last year, despite buying in prior to Steam launch.

It might show that the 'diehard steam cadre' are in fact, the same backers who took those keys.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Your whole post is invalidated by this assumption. The difference in attitude has nothing to do with PvP vs PvE, hardcore vs casual or any of the other straw men being constructed to skew the argument. The difference is that some people like a challenge and others don't.

I don't PvP and have never played in Open, nor do I value combat over other play styles, but I'm really enjoying the new AI and have played more since 2.1 dropped than I have for the last three months. I don't even consider myself a very good gamer as I tend to get frustrated and give up too early, but the new AI has brought back the sense of risk and the need for forethought that the Elite series has always been about. Not trying to appeal to authority but in '84 I never went into anarchies or feudal systems because it was too dangerous.

It's not impossible; it's harder but there is always a way if you use your brain. Check where you're going before you decide to go there, just like real life there are safer areas and less safe areas, except FDev actually state this if you can be bothered to look at the system map.

Another use of your brain would be to check your facts before you start whinging. Fdev curtailed the debug cam, Fdev decided not to make the game Pay-to-Win and Fdev decided that the AI was pathetically easy. Before you claim they're listening to a vocal minority please check out one of the myriad of player surveys on Facebook, Google+ and elsewhere which ask people about the AI... the majority LIKE it, YOU are the vocal minority whinging that the game isn't exactly what YOU want.

If you want to farm easy AI repetitively I think there's another game you can play... Zynga love players with spare money.

I can only agree, I am a solo player and improved AI improves Solo play.

I mean, I like to poke the PvPers with a stick as much as anybody else, but how good the AI is has nothing to do with the PvPers.

 

[smiths121]

Some of the Commanders on my friends list play PvP ..... in Open. I only play in open. Does that make my observations less valid? even if I try and blame those no good PvPers!

I am not sure I can blame the PvP'ing crowd for no weapons/ship in store only vanity items. The DDF was pretty much opposed to it to a man, although we were clearly game-style challenged back then, not knowing we had to choose if we were PvP or PvE, as I think most of us wanted a bit of both but not too much of either. OK, as promised, quick attempt to blame PvPers - I am pretty sure those in the DDF that preferred PvP were opposed to the selling of credits, which is something Frontier wanted to do.

External Camera - well it was Frontier that resisted this, believing it would give an unfair advantage in combat (as it did on FE2 and FFE - pause helped!). Blame PvPers - well Frontier are all PvPers, I mean their are youtubes of David Braben being blown up, so he must have been playing in open hence a PvPer. He just says he likes exploring

Simon

 

[Sim Maker]

I would have to go with yes they have.

Are you "THE" Mobius that runs that massive player group?...........fancy elaborating on your thoughts? I guess you hear a lot from your members........I think your opinion would count highly.....

 

[Soon(TM)]

What would be an interesting figure would be daily steam usage vs. the number of people who took the Steam Keys last year, despite buying in prior to Steam launch.

It might show that the 'diehard steam cadre' are in fact, the same backers who took those keys.

Im a premium beta backer and I took a Steam Key.

For the simple fact that its easier to handle the games updates.

When I had the base game installed without Steam, for some reason I had multiple copies of the game installed on my PC - I guess this was Beta and release etc.

With Steam, its much easier to handle and seems much neater when I can access all versions of the game from one UI and access my other games too.

Makes sense to use the largest game distribution service on the Interwebs!

My attention span is just fine, I have over 2 weeks of game time in ED alone.

 

[Goose4291]

I would have to go with yes they have.

Well if Mobius says it, without quantification in a hate on PvPers thread, then it must be true.

 

[excalibus]

Woah.
Would you mind Listing how much percent of the Trucks in the USA are raided on every lets say 5th tour ?
Ingame even if your in high security. If you fly a route beyond 1000ls you would reach something around 80%

Hunvagy is completely correct that all the previous titles in the elite series of games are set in a harsh universe, with much combat involved, in fact in the previous versions you could not even avoid combat like you can with ED... Yes there is exploration and there is mining and trade, mission running etc, those aspects where also part of the previous titles (well exploration was nowhere near as fleshed out as it is in ED though) and while doing those things you where often engaged by pirates, bounty hunters, disgtruntled murderers or even the police...

Just because ED is the first in the long running series you have brought into, is not the designers fault now is it? you could have done your homework to some degree... to see what the previous titles where about...

Those previous titles in the elite series are also the reason why I brought ED after waiting 20 years since the previous title... Because no other space game come close to what Elite was, not the X - Series, not EVE, not Homeworld nor Freespace, not even Vega or Privateer where a patch on Elite... Most of those were good in their own right and a lot of fun but still not the same as Elite...

and as Windscreen Smudge pointed out, even exploration ships have hardpoints, utility mounts and even internal compartments with which you can add a whole array of goodies.

 

[Goose4291]

Im a premium beta backer and I took a Steam Key.

For the simple fact that its easier to handle the games updates.

When I had the base game installed without Steam, for some reason I had multiple copies of the game installed on my PC - I guess this was Beta and release etc.

With Steam, its much easier to handle and seems much neater when I can access all versions of the game from one UI and access my other games too.

Makes sense to use the largest game distribution service on the Interwebs!

I'm not knocking you're decision to use steam.

I'm just curious to know what the numbers of people who did the same as you and how that equates to the current Steam Metrics.

 

[Soon(TM)]

I'm not knocking you're decision to use steam.

I'm just curious to know what the numbers of people who did the same as you and how that equates to the current Steam Metrics.

Im not sure about pre Steam sales but SteamSpy states that at least 768,000 copies of ED have been sold/activated via Steam since it went on there.

I read an artcile back in January that said they had sold over 1.4 million units so that would suggest that over 50% have been activated via Steam.
https://www.vrfocus.com/2016/01/elite-dangerous-reaches-1-4-million-in-sales/

So if the average player per hour on Steam is around 3k at the moment, with the other 50% not being on Steam, you could say the average player amount per hour is more like 6k - out of 1.4 million copies sold...

Admittedly that includes Xbox sales too, but who knows how many units have been sold on Xbox, and does that include CQC only sales which are £5?

Either way, even if the average player per hour is 10k, is that good against sales of 1.4 million?

I have no idea!

 

[excalibus]

Source?

Also Steamowners and non-Steamowners may not behave in the same way. Steamowner are more likely to have a wider variety of games and a shorter attention span.

Never trust a statistc you haven't faked yourself

as a steam owner of many games and a non steam owner of elite dangerous, please try not to overgeneralise like this... I have neither a shorter attention span nor do I behave differently simply because I did not activate my steam code for ED or Horizons...

Thanks...

And indeed statistics can be manipulated and exptrapolated any way you want to use them to suit your purpose

 

[Moonax IRL]

I would have to go with yes they have.

I think this is an over reaction to say the least. Also you manged to enlarge their ego while trying to insult them, that's a fair achievement seen as some of the more vocal ones can be a pain to listen to at the best of times.

 

[ROSS-128]

This thread is still going even after it's been pointed out that the OP's rant was just a smoke-screen to sneak in his demand for cash ships?

 

[Goose4291]

This thread is still going even after it's been pointed out that the OP's rant was just a smoke-screen to sneak in his demand for cash ships?

There was an opportunity to continue twisting the knife into the PvE/PvP community issue.

Guess what happened.

 

[verminstar]

As unhappy as I would be with the recent update, it doesn't seem logical to lay the blame on the pvp element. Suppose one could argue that by forcing players to wing up, it effectively starts to shift the focus on multiplayer where pvp is pretty much a staple diet, therefore promoting more pvp in the future. All tin foil hat theories. I don't particularly like the recent update, but I just don't see the logic here...sorry ^^

 

[Sim Maker]

This thread is still going even after it's been pointed out that the OP's rant was just a smoke-screen to sneak in his demand for cash ships?

Reading comprehension not your strong point is it........I listed VARIOUS reasons why I think the PvP attitude has crippled this game and its development and funding............as for buying ships, I could care less mate......I have not played it in over a year.....just not interested in its current state. There are far better shooters out there.........and that's all this is now......

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Are people still wallowing in the belief that there's a distinctive sentiment to be found in this player group, which aligns along the PvE/PvP line? When the OP kicks of with: "The "solo" crowd are the ones complaining, and the PvPers are shouting GIT GUD, Wing Up care bears." does anyone else hear alarm bells? Do people actually belief this crap that PvE-ers think like this, and pvPers think like that?

For Frog's sake (Diamond or otherwise) people, you are smarter than this.

I, as a PvEer, for one am getting rather weary of this nonsense. I refuse to take part in forum guild wars PvE vs PvP. Some of my best friends ... nah, that's not true. Some of my vaguest acquaintances are PvPers and they're half-decent guys. Half full mind you.

So lets not argue about who shoots who, or who shoots what and can a brother get a Kumbaya?

 

[Sim Maker]

There was an opportunity to continue twisting the knife into the PvE/PvP community issue.

Guess what happened.

You have a very thin skin for such a "tough guy".......seems I have rattled you a bit.......I got 50 upvotes over the weekend and this thread is 21 pages long.......and if you had bothered to read any other responses you will see I am far from alone in my view........

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I got 50 upvotes over the weekend and this thread is 21 pages long.......and if you had bothered to read any other responses you will see I am far from alone in my view........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum