Have Vista Genomics gone mad?

[alexzk]

@sallymorganmoore

I think Vista on Carriers is broken. I just sold things for 140 mils total, however on-carrier balance was not increased.

 

[Kotoku]

@sallymorganmoore

I think Vista on Carriers is broken. I just sold things for 140 mils total, however on-carrier balance was not increased.

It's working for me. I just sold ~125 mill too (5 plants, firsts++, ~ 2K ly from bubble) and it credited me just fine. Also sold exploration data, and that went through ok.
Inara bundles them both into Cartographics Data. It doesn't increase your on carrier balance btw, it increases your regular balance, which you then have to add back into the carrier if you need to. Check your non-carrier balance.

TRANSACTION TYPE	GAINS	EXPENSES	PROFIT/LOSS	FUT. GAINS	FUT. EXPENSES	DATE
Misc	0	489	-489	0	0	13 Dec 2022
SUMMARY	0	489	-489	0	0	13 Dec 2022
Misc	0	211	-211	0	0	12 Dec 2022
Cartographics data	133,123,660	0	133,123,660	0	0	12 Dec 2022
Fleet carrier	0	15,160,000	-15,160,000	0	0	12 Dec 2022
SUMMARY	133,123,660	15,160,211	117,963,449	0	0	12 Dec 2022

 

[alexzk]

Inara bundles them both into Cartographics Data. It doesn't increase your on carrier balance btw, it increases your regular balance, which you then have to add back into the carrier if you need to. Check your non-carrier balance.

Yes, that what I said. Carrier must take 25%. 12.5% is wasted and 12.5% should be added to carrier balance.

 

[Kotoku]

Yes, that what I said. Carrier must take 25%. 12.5% is wasted and 12.5% should be added to carrier balance.

I always thought the full 25% was wasted, as a game tax.
Do you have a reference where they actually say that the VG carrier fee is split 50/50 and your carrier balance as owner gets 12.5%?

Edit: It does say here that all the 25% service fees are split 50/50: https://newp.io/fc
Maybe that's only for 3rd parties, if you're the FC owner you lose 25%, which is a bit cheap of them, FDev taking a double bite.

 

[alexzk]

I always thought the full 25% was wasted, as a game tax.
Do you have a reference where they actually say that the VG carrier fee is split 50/50 and your carrier balance as owner gets 12.5%?

Edit: It does say here that all the 25% service fees are split 50/50: https://newp.io/fc

Is it logged as a bug?

That is how UC works there and Redeem Office. Both does not have fee setup slider. Vista does not have slider too, so it must work the same way.
And I think it was initially. But can't say for sure as it was some ago + it was small amounts which was hard to see on 9 digits account.

 

[Kotoku]

I'm starting to like it a bit more now. SRV is great for hooning around in the dirt, and now the plant payouts are better it's ok to stop now and again.
It seems to me the planet tech has improved since launch. There's some great "Big Sky" type vista's with long distance views and nice sense of scale now that I didn't see before, or maybe I didn't look hard enough. Nice color shifts too, like an old kodachrome feel. Living in your own vintage space travel poster.
Shout out to my old freebie starter ship the Viper MkIV, which I've gone back to using as my exploration runabout from the FC. Nice little exploration ship with 42 ly jump range, good shields/hull (lucky as I rammed a skimmer and it blew my shields and took 10% hull, a lighter ship might have totaled), and small and agile enough at ~470m/s boost to zip around the landscape low level spotting or do some canyon running.
Just doing my bit for the war effort, getting those research materials for VG
Onwards & upwards, another 1000ly till I hit my destination, do some things, then head back to the bubble for a spot of bug fishing.

 

[Kawazu]

I'm starting to like it a bit more now. SRV is great for hooning around in the dirt, and now the plant payouts are better it's ok to stop now and again.
It seems to me the planet tech has improved since launch. There's some great "Big Sky" type vista's with long distance views and nice sense of scale now that I didn't see before, or maybe I didn't look hard enough. Nice color shifts too, like an old kodachrome feel. Living in your own vintage space travel poster.
Shout out to my old freebie starter ship the Viper MkIV, which I've gone back to using as my exploration runabout from the FC. Nice little exploration ship with 42 ly jump range, good shields/hull (lucky as I rammed a skimmer and it blew my shields and took 10% hull, a lighter ship might have totaled), and small and agile enough at ~470m/s boost to zip around the landscape low level spotting or do some canyon running.
Just doing my bit for the war effort, getting those research materials for VG
Onwards & upwards, another 1000ly till I hit my destination, do some things, then head back to the bubble for a spot of bug fishing.

Gameplay loop for exobiology is nice and always has been. With previous payouts the incentive was "do you like exploring ?" (exploring is "looking for" not "click and wait and click and...") Now the loop is just another reminder that this is a game, not a universe. A fake money looter game with grotesque and totally inconsistent economy. Now to increase to grotesque all other payouts too because most the few remaining players have only credits in minds and will only do the most fake money rewarding activity like a real job but without real money.

 

[alexzk]

because most the few remaining players have only credits in minds and will only do the most fake money rewarding activity like a real job but without real money.

That is their own problem, not the game's problem.
People kill Thargoid Interceptors using sidewinder now, so ... game is perfectly ok itself now.

Now "exo loop" is perfect tool to keep owned FC financially safe when occasionally play. Because without it you must explore couple hours everyday to pay weekly bill.

 

[Northpin]

Gameplay loop for exobiology is nice and always has been. With previous payouts the incentive was "do you like exploring ?" (exploring is "looking for" not "click and wait and click and...") Now the loop is just another reminder that this is a game, not a universe. A fake money looter game with grotesque and totally inconsistent economy. Now to increase to grotesque all other payouts too because most the few remaining players have only credits in minds and will only do the most fake money rewarding activity like a real job but without real money.

Word

(i already said the payments increase as uncalled for, not as blunt as above, but still uncalled)

 

[Northpin]

People kill Thargoid Interceptors using sidewinder now

not sure it's doable anymore
that was only possible using the salvation gauss repeater with premium ammo (a bugged combo at the time), but iirc they closed that loop

however, people do kill thargoids for fat billions now (still a more skilled activity and with higher requirements than what exobio can currently offer)

 

[Kotoku]

Gameplay loop for exobiology is nice and always has been. With previous payouts the incentive was "do you like exploring ?" (exploring is "looking for" not "click and wait and click and...") Now the loop is just another reminder that this is a game, not a universe. A fake money looter game with grotesque and totally inconsistent economy. Now to increase to grotesque all other payouts too because most the few remaining players have only credits in minds and will only do the most fake money rewarding activity like a real job but without real money.

lol, that's ridiculous.
It is a game, not "a universe" per se, but I'll meet in the middle and call it a game universe.
As a game universe it's also riddled with inconsistencies and tradeoffs throughout, which WK's choose to studiously ignore whenever you point them out.

With previous payouts the incentive was "do you like exploring ?" (exploring is "looking for" not "click and wait and click and...")

You mean like The Road to Riches was "proper exploring" with the one click Honk? lol. Can't complain about that, got me started in the same Viper IV!

The exobiology loop before was rubbish and is still rubbish because it's the same point n' click with the same plant graphics appearing everwhere (magical space spores I guess), but at least you can get more cr for it now if you need/want them. If I had a $ for everytime I've seen this plant below I wouldn't need to scan them at all. Not to mention how "realistic" it looks sitting there in the arid alien landscape...

The so called "exploration" loop was/is pretty tedious as well. Magic tech one second, reduced to manual time wasting inconsistent grind the next because "simulation". #facepalm.

People getting their underpants in a twist over other people making game $$ so they can enjoy the game the way they want is hilarious.
The only grotesque thing about ED/EDO is the amount of ridiculous timewasting grind activities that kill an otherwise great environment, the tedious choreographed square dance AX fights (Interceptors++) being one of them. System scanning and planet scanning is another one. One second you're using magical FSS/DSS to scan the system/planets, next moment somehow your magical technology has dissappeared and you are reduced to manually feeling around in the dark because it takes more time for you to do it that way. Shout out to the distress beacons/wrecks with perfectly working skimmers++ you find on EVERY SINGLE PLANET. No inconsistency there, right?
NMS called and wants its sentinals back. Much "universe" there, much real.

How about a drone based exploration system management simulation first, which you can deploy to scan, locate, analyse, & prioritise for manual or automated follow up.
Set up a base in one system, deploy your bots to go to work systematically across systems in a volume radius. Deploy automated mining infra to gather materials to manufacture more so you can do more. Something intellectually challenging, where you can target the best spots for manual intervention leaving the rest for your bot buddies to hoover up. Something that you would actually be using in the 33rd century. No, lets not do real exploration, lets go with Magic n' manual grind instead!

Oh, here's another one! I have a massive (magical) FC that can jump 500ly carrying up to 40 ships + 20K cargo, yet it can't scan the system it jumps into.
It somehow can't squeeze the tech into it to do that. Not even a little bitty drone that has to jump to hyperspace and scan the system for you, like it would actually have, so you could then study it and plan out your system exploration strategy a little more efficiently, effectively, and intelligently.

Fortunately I like space dirt rally in the SRV and will continue my epic voyage for the ultimate space dirt rally track, while running over the odd plant.
It's the only fun thing about "exploration" really. Next to BeamNG (especially after yesterdays Johnson Valley drop) it's the best dirt rally simulation out there - better than DRx/WRCx++.
FDev really dropped the ball not developing ingame activities and support around SRV exploracing. Such a waste of potential, with infinite dirt racing tracks in amazing locations with great atmosphere (thin as it is). More weather would be nice, though.

 

[zimms]

Gameplay loop for exobiology is nice and always has been. With previous payouts the incentive was "do you like exploring ?" (exploring is "looking for" not "click and wait and click and...") Now the loop is just another reminder that this is a game, not a universe. [...]

How? The gameplay hasn't been changed at all.

 

[Kawazu]

You mean like The Road to Riches was "proper exploring" with the one click Honk? lol. Can't complain about that, got me started in the same Viper IV!

Did I say current exploration was Ok ? Exploration took time, much time ! people cried again and again and again because of low credit/hour.

The exobiology loop before was rubbish

People cried because "the little wheel minigame" was a real pain when done dozens of time. too long, not enough money ! FD chose to remove everything. I'll compare that to ArenaNet and fishing in GW2, it takes time, is not easy, has more interactions than in all other MMO I played or saw. But, when people cried, ANet didn't change it at all. It was the design they wanted and didn't bow to what I love to call "accountants". Now not everybody fish in GW2 but it's not an issue. A game with many grind ways allow to never grind, as, if you want, you just play, and that's all. This is the same with exploration, FD kneeled to accountants, and changed everything. eg. We had to go near bodies to scan them but that was too low cr/h for accountants.

Reading the rest, thinking about the thread subject. I think there's nothing to argue in fact. The complain was about FD kneeled again to money obsessed played, not the first time, not the last. This thread is becoming a usual "dialogue of the deaf"... Useless spent energy. Last sentence before I unsub this thread, instead of playing Elite, I'll carry Christmas hauls in American Truck Simulator (I prefer ATS to ETS2) not for money but for the fun of contributing to a long online community goal in a single player game. Thanks Frontier, you've given me the "wheel" to play another game, one more time ^^

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I forgot about the Xmas hauiling in ets I must give it a go. imo the economy has been bust in ED for years. I tried to make my own rules to keep it sensible but the moment FD put in 5.billion credit ships it was game over for that imo. I Welcome the money for exo and wish the rest of exploration was buffed too now as it's the only way I will ever get a fleet carrier.

I wish it scaled better tho ....

 

[Hellrider]

Gameplay loop for exobiology is nice and always has been. With previous payouts the incentive was "do you like exploring ?" (exploring is "looking for" not "click and wait and click and...") Now the loop is just another reminder that this is a game, not a universe. A fake money looter game with grotesque and totally inconsistent economy. Now to increase to grotesque all other payouts too because most the few remaining players have only credits in minds and will only do the most fake money rewarding activity like a real job but without real money.

Perfect description of all moaners "Not gonna do it, not giving much moni IN GAME"

This is GAME, so I will do what I like.
Even if they will "pay" me 100k for bacterias. It is fair "income" for extremally common thing, which require FSD and suit for 100k.

People which are interested only by cr/h factor can do "mining" missions for 200 gold for 50 millions

 

[Kotoku]

Did I say current exploration was Ok ? Exploration took time, much time ! people cried again and again and again because of low credit/hour.

People cried because "the little wheel minigame" was a real pain when done dozens of time. too long, not enough money ! FD chose to remove everything. I'll compare that to ArenaNet and fishing in GW2, it takes time, is not easy, has more interactions than in all other MMO I played or saw. But, when people cried, ANet didn't change it at all. It was the design they wanted and didn't bow to what I love to call "accountants". Now not everybody fish in GW2 but it's not an issue. A game with many grind ways allow to never grind, as, if you want, you just play, and that's all. This is the same with exploration, FD kneeled to accountants, and changed everything. eg. We had to go near bodies to scan them but that was too low cr/h for accountants.

Reading the rest, thinking about the thread subject. I think there's nothing to argue in fact. The complain was about FD kneeled again to money obsessed played, not the first time, not the last. This thread is becoming a usual "dialogue of the deaf"... Useless spent energy. Last sentence before I unsub this thread, instead of playing Elite, I'll carry Christmas hauls in American Truck Simulator (I prefer ATS to ETS2) not for money but for the fun of contributing to a long online community goal in a single player game. Thanks Frontier, you've given me the "wheel" to play another game, one more time ^^

The low credit was only part of the issue. The main issue was/is it's generally boring af with the deliberatly gimped exploration tools and processes, all designed to make you waste more time in lieu of engaging content & better exploration processes.

At least with the SRV you can hoon around in the dirt, which is extra fun with booster launches and "flying" it in low grav. It's a tough little beast!
Ditto for canyon running in a ship.
Apart from discovering cool spots for doing both of those activities (which should be far easier to discover with the right tools), "exploration" is as tedious as the rest of the ED grind.

 

[Kotoku]

Perfect description of all moaners "Not gonna do it, not giving much moni IN GAME"

This is GAME, so I will do what I like.
Even if they will "pay" me 100k for bacterias. It is fair "income" for extremally common thing, which require FSD and suit for 100k.

People which are interested only by cr/h factor can do "mining" missions for 200 gold for 50 millions

It's an inane tedious grind that shouldn't even be honored with the word "gameplay".
Same "plants" everywhere is the most ridiculous thing, at least NMS tried to do some form of procgen there to spice it up.

Another one is the deliberate grind limited to one sample at a time, so you're forced to run around in circles to hoover up different species, instead of being able to multisample at a time. Basic science sampling even in the 18th century was to take multiple samples at one location, then move on.

What does FDev do for the 33rd century, with magical space drives that can move a FC with 20K cargo and 40 ships 500 ly at a time?

Constrain you to 1 sample at a time because they can.
As if that would be a useful science sampling tool used in the 33rd century.
But hey, it's logical in the FDev 400 Billion star universe because...because..why exactly? A: Grind. Timewasting busy work in lieu of a more engaging system.
It's all designed around "what's the minimal thing we can implement that will waste most of the players time, that's nowhere near what they are likely to do in the 33rd century?"

They don't even have a good effect for running over plants in the SRV, which would be much more fun.
Wouldn't be that hard to implement some FX splats, booms, puffs etc when you ram/squish them.
Weapons don't even work on plants. They make for boring target practice. How logical is that?

It would at least make it more interesting than the current lame exobiology, which at least by raising the cr gives some incentive to exit the SRV to pay the FC bills.

 

[The Own of Noon]

There's more exobiology in my hair than most of you newly minted exo-complainants

I use Altairian starshine fed plankton, to get this certain green luster

Good luck out there! And remember, the tussock aren't the only species wishing to annihilate ours.

 

[Kotoku]

The mushrooms are a hit in the FC bar.
I also make a special paste from the Bacterium I call Bacterium Arsesus to alleviate some issues from being locked into my seat once in the ship, but maybe that's tmi.