Heat sinks right now are appalling

Better to cite the peer-reviewed final published version of a paper than the arxiv one, though I get that you did that because arxiv is free to access: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v526/n7575/abs/nature15759.html

But the point is, the violation of the Bell inequality does not imply FTL communication! COMMUNICATION! Something might have gotten there FTL, but you can't know without interrogating it with sub-FTL methods. And you almost certainly never will be able to, either.

As for my fundamental rule being 'classical physics': That is just not true. Classical physics has nothing to say about FTL travel. Quantum physics is an incomplete description of the universe, the incompleteness of which leads to these kinds of wrong conclusions. We know this and have done for ages; unifying quantum physics and relativity is one of the biggest challenges in theoretical physics. Observing violation of the Bell inequality is a demonstration of this, not that FTL communication is possible.

Entanglement has been known about for ages and we're getting to the point of using it for security, because you can't tamper with one end without it being evident at the other. But, while that part happens FTL, it is simply not the case that you choose the spin of one electron and its entangled friend over the road has the other spin. You don't get to choose, is the point. If you do spin filter the electrons, you break any entanglement. Random initial spin is part of entanglement. So you send a list of the measured spins along with your message, and the guy at the other end checks that his spins were opposite, and if so he knows the message is secure. But you SENT THE INFORMATION using sub-FTL methods, because there simply isn't any other way.

Pretty much every paper on arxiv (and I only say pretty much because I haven't checked every last one of them, but I have yet to read a single paper on there that wasn't published) was published in a peer reviewed journal. I found the copy in nature you linked first and then used it to find the arxiv copy. I've been providing peer reviewed articles from the very beginning, thanks.

You can know without sub-FTL communication. We know what the properties of a photon are. We know what the opposites, polarities and qualities of charm, spin, charge, etc.... are. You know when investigating the first particle to deduce state A also confers the information that the state of the other particle is B. You don't need to double-check that.

If I am looking North, I don't need to turn around and gauge the position of the sun to find South before inferring from the evidence that North is directly ahead of me that likewise South is directly behind me. East and West will also explicitly be where they have always been.

I can do this because the nature and properties of the magnetic poles and cardinal directions has been proven emphatically before my experiment. Likewise, the properties of quantum spin have been proven emphatically beforehand.

It's not a mystery. There is no guessing. Your entire position is based upon the false assumption that somewhere along the line someone has to make a guess. The only people who're guessing are the people who continue to insist that false Bell tests are somehow flawed through random, unidentifiable conditions.

I am on one side of the continent. My friend is on the other side. He is tapping out morse code that I am receiving over an electric line.

When I receive a message from him, I don't need to send a letter to him via stagecoach to confirm that the message he sent me in morse code was indeed sent in morse code. That part was agreed to before the message was ever sent, not after.

The fallacy that sub-FTL communication is required to confirm the information sent only applies to encrypted messages whose nature was not understood by both parties on transmittal. When a unifying language of communication is introduced all of that is immediately thrown out the window.
 
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Pretty much every paper on arxiv (and I only say pretty much because I haven't checked every last one of them, but I have yet to read a single paper on there that wasn't published) was published in a peer reviewed journal. I found the copy in nature you linked first and then used it to find the arxiv copy. I've been providing peer reviewed articles from the very beginning, thanks.

You can know without sub-FTL communication. We know what the properties of a photon are. We know what the opposites, polarities and qualities of charm, spin, charge, etc.... are. You know when investigating the first particle to deduce state A also confers the information that the state of the other particle is B. You don't need to double-check that.

If I am looking North, I don't need to turn around and gauge the position of the sun to find South before inferring from the evidence that North is directly ahead of me that likewise South is directly behind me. East and West will also explicitly be where they have always been.

I can do this because the nature and properties of the magnetic poles and cardinal directions has been proven emphatically before my experiment. Likewise, the properties of quantum spin have been proven emphatically beforehand.

It's not a mystery. There is no guessing. Your entire position is based upon the false assumption that somewhere along the line someone has to make a guess. The only people who're guessing are the people who continue to insist that false Bell tests are somehow flawed through random, unidentifiable conditions.

I am on one side of the continent. My friend is on the other side. He is tapping out morse code that I am receiving over an electric line.

When I receive a message from him, I don't need to send a letter to him via stagecoach to confirm that the message he sent me in morse code was indeed sent in morse code. That part was agreed to before the message was ever sent, not after.

The fallacy that sub-FTL communication is required to confirm the information sent only applies to encrypted messages whose nature was not understood by both parties on transmittal. When a unifying language of communication is introduced all of that is immediately thrown out the window.

You are attempting to counter my argument about apples with one about oranges. Randomness has nothing to do with guessing. It's a fact that information cannot be transmitted FTL. Nothing has ever disproved this, or been proposed to. You can point to things that happened instantaneously in retrospect, once you have measured them, but you can't get the jump on the universe. At least, not via quantum entanglement. I don't know anything about wormholes (not that you mentioned them).

By the way, phys.org isn't peer reviewed and neither is youtube. The peer-reviewed paper that you do refer to absolutely does not lend itself to your interpretation. Once again, there is nothing in peer-reviewed, accepted science, that points to the possibility of FTL transmission of information. If you want to speculate, that's up to you. But saying what I originally responded to - ftl travel is inevitable - is simply wrong, by any framework that currently exists or is reasonably expected to exist.
 
You are attempting to counter my argument about apples with one about oranges. Randomness has nothing to do with guessing. It's a fact that information cannot be transmitted FTL. Nothing has ever disproved this, or been proposed to. You can point to things that happened instantaneously in retrospect, once you have measured them, but you can't get the jump on the universe. At least, not via quantum entanglement. I don't know anything about wormholes (not that you mentioned them).

By the way, phys.org isn't peer reviewed and neither is youtube. The peer-reviewed paper that you do refer to absolutely does not lend itself to your interpretation. Once again, there is nothing in peer-reviewed, accepted science, that points to the possibility of FTL transmission of information. If you want to speculate, that's up to you. But saying what I originally responded to - ftl travel is inevitable - is simply wrong, by any framework that currently exists or is reasonably expected to exist.

Nothing needed to be proposed to prove it because the Bell Test was proposed to prove that information CAN'T travel faster than light and it failed. If the test fails, that means that information was transmitted faster than light.

The paper from nature that you linked back to me argues exactly that, and the crappy youtube video was made by the people who did the test. Like I said, don't blame me for their poor taste in music and sub-par editorial skills. I only linked that video because Fennster couldn't open .pdfs on his phone.

Second article I linked. Again, in the journal nature since you can't cross-reference for yourself.

http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journal/v9/n8/fig_tab/nphoton.2015.110_ft.html

First article.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v512/n7515/full/nature13586.html

So every paper I linked has been published by the very journal you used as an example of a peer reviewed publication.

Thank you. Now you can get off of that topic.

Randomness has everything to do with guessing, because with language you can define randomness. You've been using the very solution to your own self-perceived problem to argue against a solution.

Let me help you.

I and my partner have agreed on a set standard for communicating before departing for wherever it is we wish to go. In our possession are devices with which we can use to share entangled photons. This is the language with which we have chosen to communicate.

Photons are isolated so that they can be numbered. Each device contains a synchronized clock. Photons will be read on the uptick, and the entanglement of other photons will be broken on the downtick. Qualities of spin will either be an on or an off, none of the exotic qualities. We'll keep it simple today.

On the first uptick the speaker scans the first photon, and the listener scans it immediately afterward. The speaker immediately knows that the listener received an "on" signal, now he must communicate that "on" was indeed what he meant to say.

On the downtick we are going to observe photons 2 and 3. If the entanglement is still intact on photon 2, then that is a confirmation. The listener now knows that "on" was the correct signal because it was confirmed at a speed faster than light. If "on" was not the intended signal, the speaker would have broken the entanglement on photon 2, thus communicating that the first piece of information that was communicated was not on but off.

The third photon is only used in the case that one party or another believes that an error has occurred in the message. For instance, if the entanglement of the particle on the uptick is broken, you would break the entanglement on both the second and third photon to start the message over again.

And yes, it all happens at a speed faster than light.

Now that's just a truly simplistic example of how it could be done. I am proverbially banging rocks together. When you factor into account things like Entanglement Swapping between Photons that have Never Coexisted, Hyperentanglement, the persistence of information in broken entanglement bonds, etc... things get scary.

Entanglement is shaping up to prove that pretty much every causality paradox that Einstein woke up in a cold sweat over is actually true. Sorry. That's just how it is. The field on this subject is changing so rapidly right now the only people keeping up with it are the people directly involved. Don't keep arguing just because you're afraid to be wrong. We don't need to discuss how many fundamental laws and ineffable facts of the universe you learned while you were in school are no longer true to get to the bottom of this. I have my favorite subjects, and you have yours. I haven't read anything regarding the rapidly advancing field of plate tectonics in almost a decade. If it turned out to be a favorite subject of yours, I wouldn't contest every statement you made, I'd just politely ask what you've been reading on the subject and what your conclusions are.
 
You mean the Peltier Effect (or thermoelectric cooling) - it's like a thermocouple (Seebeck effect) in reverse. We used it to cool low noise amplifiers in the front end (first stage) of certain airborne radar receivers as it wasn't mass-efficient to use other types of cooling (e.g. refrigerant). I have been out of the electronics world for many years so I don't know how much it is used these days.

Edit> Just noticed earlier posts already mentioned the Peltier effect - sorry.
I was more referring to just the electric discharge providing the extra energy to kickstart the chemical reaction inside the Heat Sink, which then sucks energy away from the ship to continue the reaction. I'm looking at it from the perspective of a chemist rather than electrician, but at this point either could work to some degree.

Though I stand by my idea, being that it explains why it only uses energy to fire once, not for a extended period of time (you only have to hit the heat sink button once for it to fire, you don't need to hold it, nor does it continue to drain power after pressing it. That indicates to me, that it's using electricity to ionize something inside the heat sink.)
 
I was more referring to just the electric discharge providing the extra energy to kickstart the chemical reaction inside the Heat Sink, which then sucks energy away from the ship to continue the reaction. I'm looking at it from the perspective of a chemist rather than electrician, but at this point either could work to some degree.

Though I stand by my idea, being that it explains why it only uses energy to fire once, not for a extended period of time (you only have to hit the heat sink button once for it to fire, you don't need to hold it, nor does it continue to drain power after pressing it. That indicates to me, that it's using electricity to ionize something inside the heat sink.)

Oh is that how we're doing this? :D

Thinking as an engineer the one-time consumption could be explained by kickstarting the high velocity pump. Using capacitors to jump start electric motors at high voltages and amperage and then keep them running on much lower power draw is commonplace.

:p
 
Sorry for the hiatus. I was away. I will accept the patronizing tone, since I probably adopted it first. But thinking up a scenario in which you can communicate FTL is not the same as doing it, and nobody has done it. Also, I am not frightened of being wrong - it's happened before, and is bound to happen again. I would in fact love to be wrong, because I wish FTL communication/travel were possible as well. I would love for someone to demonstrate that it can be done. But you can't apply that interpretation to the articles you cite, because they do not say it. I really hope that in the future something might show FTL communication, but in one aspect you're definitely right - I have a lot tied up in Einstein being correct, because he usually is.

Bringing in other peculiarities of QM to obfuscate the matter further doesn't help, either. I get that this is a favourite subject of yours, but you seem to be approaching it somewhat subjectively.
 
Next thing for me to complain about is the module itself. Launching metal/material into space is not very good or efficient heat dispersal. Animals like elephants have a VERY low surface area to volume ratio, which means elephants build up heat extremely quickly. The same goes for large ships (hence why Capital Ships have special modules to keep them cool). An elephant has large ears (not to hear stuff) to disperse their heat. A ship in elite dangerous in this year should be waaaaaay past launching heatsinks. We need a deployable module which opens up a very large, foldable radiator unit. A large panel with strips of metal running from top to bottom which can be deployed and retracted at will. The rods are for more surface area (heat dispersal).

Another suggestion would be to fit a utility mount with a corrugated metal panel. This makes the ship look a lot nicer whilst still managing to disperse heat.

Deploying a foldable radiator module should reduce heating effects by 20%. If you would be on 100% heat for whatever reason, then you deploy this, it goes down to 80%.

Hi. The problem with this is that there is no atmosphere for the heat to convect (remember the miss-named radiators on our houses are actually convectors) so the only way to expel heat is via radiation, like the sun, or the way it currently works.
 
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I don't want to complain

But... Have some constructive criticism:

EDIT: it doesn't cool you down to 0 kelvin, as pointed out below. My point doesn't change, so please don't talk about the current temperature in the comments correcting me.

So right now, to purge heat you fire out shrapnel or pieces of metal into space. Sure, it works fine. It uses power? Surely this wouldn't be mechanical or only uses a minute amount of power to flick a switch? It's not like it uses any more than an LED light to release a piece of metal?

Power aside, heat sinks reduce your heat to 0%. I don't think this is acceptable. 0% heat is close to absolute 0 (I assume) but your modules are always producing heat from the reactor, so reaching anywhere near absolute 0 is not possible.

Next thing for me to complain about is the module itself. Launching metal/material into space is not very good or efficient heat dispersal. Animals like elephants have a VERY low surface area to volume ratio, which means elephants build up heat extremely quickly. The same goes for large ships (hence why Capital Ships have special modules to keep them cool). An elephant has large ears (not to hear stuff) to disperse their heat. A ship in elite dangerous in this year should be waaaaaay past launching heatsinks. We need a deployable module which opens up a very large, foldable radiator unit. A large panel with strips of metal running from top to bottom which can be deployed and retracted at will. The rods are for more surface area (heat dispersal).

Another suggestion would be to fit a utility mount with a corrugated metal panel. This makes the ship look a lot nicer whilst still managing to disperse heat.

Deploying a foldable radiator module should reduce heating effects by 20%. If you would be on 100% heat for whatever reason, then you deploy this, it goes down to 80%.

The small panel should only decrease it by 10%, being considerably smaller. These modules also don't require ammo, this being cost efficient as well as realistic.

Idea inspired by Kerbal Space Program and life on earth.

Feedback would be appreciated, thank you - have a nice day

Wouldn't it be interesting if you could instead simply add more radiators, at the cost of armour? ie: For each radiator panel you add to vent heat, you lose a %age of your hull armour. You can therefore tailor your ship to heat/armour accordingly.
 
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Wouldn't it be interesting if you could instead simply add more radiators, at the cost of armour? ie: For each radiator panel you add to vent heat, you lose a %age of your hull armour. You can therefore tailor your ship to heat/armour accordingly.

Imagine then, when we finally get stealth related missions (spying on enemy bases/ships in an asteroid field) or smuggling etc etc, and you could forgoe a lot of your armour to instead mount radiators to lower your temp down more efficiently... ;)
 
Imagine then, when we finally get stealth related missions (spying on enemy bases/ships in an asteroid field) or smuggling etc etc, and you could forgoe a lot of your armour to instead mount radiators to lower your temp down more efficiently... ;)
Ships are detected by the heat they emit.

Radiators emit heat. See what's gone wrong there?
 
Ships are detected by the heat they emit.

Radiators emit heat. See what's gone wrong there?

Fair point... Handwavium - "heat condensers"...

So, you could use/dedicate hull space to fit "heat condensers" which lower your temperature at the cost of hull strength :)
 
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Heat sink works like a high tech Maxwell's demon. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell's_demon

This, basically. They're transferring the heat energy from one part of the ship to another, just like a fridge cools down the inside by pumping it to the radiator on the back. Then it's effectively throwing that hot part away.

The only slightly weird bit is why that (now really hot) sink doesn't pop up on everyone's scanner, letting them see that there's a ship somewhere, even if it's not where the sink is now.

I've not played with missiles - do they track the sink, like they would chaff, or is the AI onboard smart enough to notice that the really hot thing they're tracking is no longer shaped like a spaceship?
 
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