Help me understand what is it you get to do after getting longer jump ranges.

[Kenaz]

It's been mentioned before elsewhere too, but is still a good point, that space should be a compelling and immersive place, not just something to be skipped over and ignored while on your way somewhere else. I can see how doing this might be difficult to implement and might even make some players more frustrated with things than they are now, but overall I think it would improve the game, giving people more interesting things to do without having to travel as far to find them.

I agree with you. and this game isn't Starwars: Battlefront/ Xwing vs TIE / Descent Freespace. I'm saying what if there was a mode fore that. There was a poll here a few days ago if you should be able to bring your ship into CQC. I voted "no" which was the minority view. So lets go with it. What if you could bring your ship in for some massive 16 v 16 space station battle (that's not called CQC... but called something else)? would that do it for the combat pilots that feel isolated in this game? or is there something else?

I feel like for everything ppl have complained about, there's a solution. a non jump range adjusting solution.

except if you really enjoying ganking unsuspecting defenseless newbies. Which is totally legitimate. not judging. If you love ganking unsuspecting defenseless newbies and that's the only reason you bought this game. then yes. the only way to make you happy would be to increase jump range on your massive FDL or Corvette. but no one has voiced that opinion. So i continue to operate on the assumption that the underlying problem is addressable without messing with jump range

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I don't want a buff across the board or anything like that. I would like a buff to the bottom end of the spectrum purely for Quality of Life reasons.

The other day I went to outfit my Corvette again for Conflict Zones and I ran into the issue where my usual outfitting station changed stock and no longer carried the 6A Frameshift Drive I needed. The nearest place to get one was 43Ly away, so I settled on the 6B and stripped off all of my HRPs just to make a meager 10Ly jump range. That 43Ly trip took ten jumps because at 10Ly you aren't jumping in a straight line; You're taking the long way around. When I arrived to buy my 6A FSD, that station didn't have the 5D Hull Reinforcement Packages, so back I went, this time with a 12Ly jump range and still had to do 8 jumps.

So can I translate this into
1) ship transport to CZ system
2) amazon module delivery service?
would these things solve your issue, or did i miss something?

jump range as a balancer or not goes to the other thread

 

[GilliganTX]

The actual problem is that the bubble is homogenous: there is no difference if I'm sitting in a high-security Empire system as a King that is allied to the local faction or a zero-security Federation system as a nobody that is hostile to the local faction.

It's because of this that people want to be able to go from anywhere to anywhere: they don't see any difference between systems.

FD need to make your interactions with the systems matter. That will cause people to view different parts of the bubble differently and stop thinking about them as just "somewhere with a CG" or "somewhere with a good trading route".

I like this. Rep to you.

I don't want a buff across the board or anything like that. I would like a buff to the bottom end of the spectrum purely for Quality of Life reasons.

The other day I went to outfit my Corvette again for Conflict Zones and I ran into the issue where my usual outfitting station changed stock and no longer carried the 6A Frameshift Drive I needed. The nearest place to get one was 43Ly away, so I settled on the 6B and stripped off all of my HRPs just to make a meager 10Ly jump range. That 43Ly trip took ten jumps because at 10Ly you aren't jumping in a straight line; You're taking the long way around. When I arrived to buy my 6A FSD, that station didn't have the 5D Hull Reinforcement Packages, so back I went, this time with a 12Ly jump range and still had to do 8 jumps.

Sob story aside, why does it matter how many jumps I have to do? Just put on a scoop and some extra tanks, right?
That would be true if jumping didn't force you to do nothing, but require you to be present. There's no way to auto-travel, but you physically cannot do anything while traveling because your HUD is largely disabled right from the moment you start charging your FSD. At least let me use that time to go get a drink, you know?

So again

• I am not asking for a "teleport anywhere" button
• I am not asking for jump range increases for all ships
• I am not asking to make exploration easier
• I am not asking to make space feel smaller
• I am not asking for combat ships to have the same jump range as exploration ships
• I am not asking for combat ships to have the longest jump ranges in the game
• I am not asking for combat ships to be the most desired ships in the game

I am asking for the Federal Corvette, Fer De Lance, the Type-9 Heavy, and any other ships with abysmal laden jump ranges to get a small quality-of-life improvement so they don't have to stare at 10 loading screens to travel 43Ly while any reasonable ship in the game does no more than 4 to cover that distance.

Remember: Jump range is not a good primary balancing lever. It only serves to drive people away from ships they would otherwise love to fly, because it's too tedious just to simply get around.

REP REP REP

I think this is a very well spoken summary of most aspects of the issue.

 

[Chris Simon]

Combat preferred pilots want a massive jump range increase. Most of the population base has clearly stated they don't want that.

So what other ways to solve the problem. Why do you want a larger jump range?
do you want a massive jump range to PvP?
meet up with friends?
gank newbs?
join CGs?
Epic Star Battles?

Can FD create a game mode where you can get what you want without messing with jump range?

I don't want MASSIVE jumprange boost. 3LY would be more than enough and I explained why.

 

[Kenaz]

I don't want MASSIVE jumprange boost. 3LY would be more than enough and I explained why.

So after crafting and engineers, if it gets you over that gap, you dont have any issues,
even if the bubble expands such that now CGs are much further away and take just as many loading screens to get you there.
and you're not really looking to have to jump any larger gaps (eg beagle point)
and if all other ships get a similar boost

 

[sewerratuk]

I don't want a buff across the board or anything like that.

Nor me, I just want MY FAS to have a 1000ly jump range and 6 huge hardpoints

 

[vsTerminus]

So can I translate this into
1) ship transport to CZ system
2) amazon module delivery service?
would these things solve your issue, or did i miss something?

A delivery service only solves the problem if it is affordable *and* more convenient. If it's slower than just flying there myself I will only use it for background ship transfers to move my fleet around. I will still manually fly around for friends/events/etc.

Module delivery service hinges on also having the capabilities to own/store modules and to shop remotely - neither of which are possible now. So maybe a buff in the mean time is warranted.

On a related note, encouraging use of one mechanic by making another prohibitively frustrating isn't typically good design. If a delivery system is done well you shouldn't have to give ships miserable jump ranges to encourage players to use it.

 

[GilliganTX]

IMO, module storage would circumvent a lot of the low-range issues for combat ships in regard to re-fitting for travel/combat.

 

[Kenaz]

A delivery service only solves the problem if it is affordable *and* more convenient. If it's slower than just flying there myself I will only use it for background ship transfers to move my fleet around. I will still manually fly around for friends/events/etc.

Module delivery service hinges on also having the capabilities to own/store modules and to shop remotely - neither of which are possible now. So maybe a buff in the mean time is warranted.

Thank you for clarifying.

On a related note, encouraging use of one mechanic by making another prohibitively frustrating isn't typically good design. If a delivery system is done well you shouldn't have to give ships miserable jump ranges to encourage players to use it.

I understand completely. Just in this thread, I want to explore non-jump range options. jump range discussions have so many other threads, we don't really need another one.

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IMO, module storage would circumvent a lot of the low-range issues for combat ships in regard to re-fitting for travel/combat.

thank you for your input. it's really helps to get a better picture of what people are thinking or wanting.

 

[hairychris]

Extended FSD jumps will make one die slightly more alone than everyone else?

Apologies...

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

TL; DR

1. This thread is NOT about jump ranges. Everyone talking about jump ranges go here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=229095

1. What is it that you NEED that increasing jump ranges will let you do? I.E. jump range is the symptom. You’re not going to do more jumps b/c you get longer jump ranges. What is it that you’re dying to do after you get to your destination?

topic not about jump range. Rather: What do you do at your destination if you had an 1,000 ly jump range?

People like in a courvette don't wanna jump with pitiful 12ly ranges around within the bubble to meet friends and play together because thats a amazingly stupid slowly task which servers no purpose. The demand for longer jump ranges come from the EXTREMELY low ranges some heavy ships have.

And what they wanna do when they arrive? play together do the CG or whatever they initially wanted to do there.

Also the entire "jump system" is still weird Why do I need to jump between systems, when I had a ship able to jump 12LY and I have a distance of 30 LY between to system people should be able to make jumps to coordinates between. Thats not exactly the definition of "Infinite Freedom" seems more likevery much "mechanics limited freedome"

 

[Kenaz]

People like in a courvette don't wanna jump with pitiful 12ly ranges around within the bubble to meet friends and play together because thats a amazingly stupid slowly task which servers no purpose. The demand for longer jump ranges come from the EXTREMELY low ranges some heavy ships have.

And what they wanna do when they arrive? play together do the CG or whatever they initially wanted to do there.

Also the entire "jump system" is still weird Why do I need to jump between systems, when I had a ship able to jump 12LY and I have a distance of 30 LY between to system people should be able to make jumps to coordinates between. Thats not exactly the definition of "Infinite Freedom" seems more likevery much "mechanics limited freedome"

So what IF there was one locked system everyone could "jump" to from the galnet menu. 1 load screen and all your buddies are there. What does that system need? Cz? Cg? Pvp? Newb ganking?

 

[vsTerminus]

in this thread, I want to explore non-jump range options.

My favorite solution could happen with crafting. Think variations of the standard FSD:

- Decreased max range but less affected by weight. Brings up the laden jump for heavy ships, but prevents them from being used to explore.
- Increased range when jumping to a Nav Beacon, decreased without one. Great for being mobile in the bubble, not so good for long range smuggling or exploring.
- etc

 

[GilliganTX]

thank you for your input. it's really helps to get a better picture of what people are thinking or wanting.

At least for me, I want the ability to log on, see my friend is also on, then take my ship and play with them with out TO MUCH hassle.

I think Terminus did a good job of describing some of the hoops you have to go through to take a Corvette, a top of the line starship, through a paltry galactic distance.


So I log on, see my friend is playing in a HAZ RES in a system 70 LY away.

Now days, since I have the capitol, I would take my Asp to where he's at and just buy a new ship.

In the past, when I did not have that luxury, I would try and fit my ship for travel, because I had it combat fit for the combat zones I was farming last week (wars over now, now CZ's). So I strip the HRP, add a fuel scoop, but, oh wait, this outpost only has an E1 scoop, crap. I can either just deal with it and make the 10 jump journey, stopping every star to top up because two un-scoopables in a row and your SOL, time to call the rats. And because that outpost only had the E1 scoop, it takes 3 minutes to refill from each jump. So you're looking at at least 30 minutes travel time - I sure hope he's going to be there a while, because odds are the system he's in wont have jack for outfitting and I'll have to search systems nearby him to re-fit for combat, another 15 minutes gone.

But, oh great, he's not, because we're in different time zones...


OR, instead of taking the E1, I take 4 minutes to find a near-by high tech system, which HOPEFULLY has the one module I'm looking for, so 15 minutes there, and now at least I can refill faster, so I cut my journey time in half, which still totals 30 minutes to get there, then fitting for combat again.


Then do it all again next week.




If the game was not billed as an MMO, i'd be okay with this. I bought an MMO, I want to shoot laser beams at things with my friends with out having to jump through 13 hoops, on fire.




If, when I initially arrived at the system I was fighting the war in a week prior, I could store my a4 fuel scoop, then fit with HRPs, so that I know I can quickly grab my scoop, and move out if I need to, would be a massive, massive boon.

 

[sewerratuk]

Newb ganking?

Don't get another thread highjacked

 

[AH_ImADot]

I think the solution is to limit all CG's and PvP to systems within a sphere with a 12ly radius. Leave the rest of the galaxy to the rest of us.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I think Terminus did a good job of describing some of the hoops you have to go through to take a Corvette, a top of the line starship, through a paltry galactic distance.

Why don't aircraft carriers fly at mach 8?

If the game was not billed as an MMO, i'd be okay with this. I bought an MMO, I want to shoot laser beams at things with my friends with out having to jump through 13 hoops, on fire.

Have you heard of CQC?

 

[_Fissure]

The actual problem is that the bubble is homogenous: there is no difference if I'm sitting in a high-security Empire system as a King that is allied to the local faction or a zero-security Federation system as a nobody that is hostile to the local faction.

It's because of this that people want to be able to go from anywhere to anywhere: they don't see any difference between systems.

FD need to make your interactions with the systems matter. That will cause people to view different parts of the bubble differently and stop thinking about them as just "somewhere with a CG" or "somewhere with a good trading route".

I don't want a buff across the board or anything like that. I would like a buff to the bottom end of the spectrum purely for Quality of Life reasons.

The other day I went to outfit my Corvette again for Conflict Zones and I ran into the issue where my usual outfitting station changed stock and no longer carried the 6A Frameshift Drive I needed. The nearest place to get one was 43Ly away, so I settled on the 6B and stripped off all of my HRPs just to make a meager 10Ly jump range. That 43Ly trip took ten jumps because at 10Ly you aren't jumping in a straight line; You're taking the long way around. When I arrived to buy my 6A FSD, that station didn't have the 5D Hull Reinforcement Packages, so back I went, this time with a 12Ly jump range and still had to do 8 jumps.

Sob story aside, why does it matter how many jumps I have to do? Just put on a scoop and some extra tanks, right?
That would be true if jumping didn't force you to do nothing, but require you to be present. There's no way to auto-travel, but you physically cannot do anything while traveling because your HUD is largely disabled right from the moment you start charging your FSD. At least let me use that time to go get a drink, you know?

So again

• I am not asking for a "teleport anywhere" button
• I am not asking for jump range increases for all ships
• I am not asking to make exploration easier
• I am not asking to make space feel smaller
• I am not asking for combat ships to have the same jump range as exploration ships
• I am not asking for combat ships to have the longest jump ranges in the game
• I am not asking for combat ships to be the most desired ships in the game

I am asking for the Federal Corvette, Fer De Lance, the Type-9 Heavy, and any other ships with abysmal laden jump ranges to get a small quality-of-life improvement so they don't have to stare at 10 loading screens to travel 43Ly while any reasonable ship in the game does no more than 4 to cover that distance.

Remember: Jump range is not a good primary balancing lever. It only serves to drive people away from ships they would otherwise love to fly, because it's too tedious just to simply get around.

These are two of the best posts that I've seen on the subject, and I think they really put I to focus some of the main issues people have with the topic at hand. These are the kinds of things that we and FD need to be looking at in an effort to improve the system we currently have now.

I especially like JGMs post, because it highlights the reasons behind players frustration with low jump range ships. I also like Terminus's post because it highlights so of the challenges players face when they try to overcome the issue of traveling with a ship that has a short jump range, especially considering the uncertainty of ship part availability.

I think these two posts can be used as the centerpieces for a serious discussion with FD about the current jump range system and what changes, if any, can or should be made.

 

[vsTerminus]

If the game was not billed as an MMO, i'd be okay with this. I bought an MMO, I want to shoot laser beams at things with my friends with out having to jump through 13 hoops, on fire.

So much this. It sucks when "Let's shoot some stuff" turns into an hour of one person flying around trying to get the ship and modules they need while the other person does 72 hops while reading INARA to help the other person find those modules they need.

I just want to play with my friends without an hour of setup time first.

 

[SirAdelaide]

1)

Auto pilot for jumps

Give docking computer jump control, have it arrive at stars, circumnavigate them to find next target, and jump on.

Pilot would need to consider fuel range, and possibly cancel auto pilot to spend time scooping. Would also need to remain present in case of interdiction.

So on the balance, the game isn't circumvented, but boring repetitive parts are somewhat automated, to allow the player to undertake other tasks.


2)

Allow interesting tasks during jumps

Don't lock side panels during jumps, let us check the route, gal map, news, stats etc.


3)

Speed loading

Preload the next star system in a series of jumps in the background during FSD cool off, to shorten load times. This alone could make a huge improvement to travel times

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So much this. It sucks when "Let's shoot some stuff" turns into an hour of one person flying around trying to get the ship and modules they need while the other person does 72 hops while reading INARA to help the other person find those modules they need.

I just want to play with my friends without an hour of setup time first.

Thus we have CCQ.

 

[GilliganTX]

Why don't aircraft carriers fly at mach 8?

Because they don't fly.

Have you heard of CQC?

So you're saying FD sold an open world sandbox MMORPG that you have to go into a closed arena mode with little to nothing to do with the larger sandbox for multiplayer gameplay? While, I am enjoying CQC, That's not quite the right answer, either.