Hey! There are 2 different systems named "I Carinae"

Neilski

Neilski
It baffles me that the game has this particular failing. Can't imagine why they allowed as many as 4 (or are there even worse cases?) systems to share a name. And of course, as has been mentioned in another thread I saw, it totally buggers up navigation to such systems.
 

aRJay

aRJay
Neilski said:
It baffles me that the game has this particular failing. Can't imagine why they allowed as many as 4 (or are there even worse cases?) systems to share a name. And of course, as has been mentioned in another thread I saw, it totally buggers up navigation to such systems.
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That is what a billionth of a percent of all systems?
 

Ashnak

Ashnak
Neilski said:
It baffles me that the game has this particular failing. Can't imagine why they allowed as many as 4 (or are there even worse cases?) systems to share a name. And of course, as has been mentioned in another thread I saw, it totally buggers up navigation to such systems.
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Hmmm... looking atthe list @andrewg_oz linked, they all seem to be named, i.e. real life star catalogue, systems. One characteristic of such systems is that usually, only two of the coordinates are excact (the two angles describing the direction from Earth), the third (distance from Earth) has some (for non-astrophysicists: glaringly obvious and enormous) uncertainty.
Now, you feed the star catalogues into stellar forge and ask it to create a system that mathces the catlogue data in one sector. But: the radius coordinate is not well enough defined, so when stellar forge works through the adjacent sector, it can again create that system....
At least that's one guess I can come up with off the top of my head.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Ashnak said:
Hmmm... looking atthe list @andrewg_oz linked, they all seem to be named, i.e. real life star catalogue, systems
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Necessarily so. All systems have a unique ID, and their procedural name is just a translation of that ID into something vaguely pronounceable in a way that can't create duplicates.

I think you're right about "Same system in two different places from two separate star catalogues" being the explanation.
 

varonica

varonica
Oh lol, I know sets of up to 4 systems with identical names, mostly in the 2mass and NGC catalogue sets, funny how that happens.
 

Neilski

Neilski
aRJay said:
That is what a billionth of a percent of all systems?
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I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Being unable to navigate to a system by name is a problem. If someone visits a system and tries to go back there later, a name clash can prevent them from easily doing so.
Moreover, since the clashes are apparently all (as @Ashnak says) in "manually" (i.e. not procedurally) named systems, the percentage and general fail-factor is probably rather higher than you think.
I don't actually know if ED has tens of thousands of star catalogue names or hundreds of millions - maybe someone has made a good guess at this? Very few of the systems far away from the bubble ever seem to have "real" names, but 1 in every 1000 would still mean ~400 million of them :)
Ashnak said:
Now, you feed the star catalogues into stellar forge and ask it to create a system that mathces the catlogue data in one sector. But: the radius coordinate is not well enough defined, so when stellar forge works through the adjacent sector, it can again create that system....
At least that's one guess I can come up with off the top of my head.
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Sounds very plausible to me...

Are any of the duplicates populated (pre-colonisation, I mean)? That would increase the grief factor a little further.
 

forbiddenlake

forbiddenlake
Fun fact: you can calculate the proc-gen name from the id64, and use that, so;

Sol: Shudun Sector AA-A d0

V2345 Orionis: Col 69 Sector PE-E b13-3
V2345 Orionis: Col 69 Sector CB-L b9-2
V2345 Orionis: Col 69 Sector GH-J b10-34

I Carinae: Synuefe HH-V f2-10
I Carinae: Puppis Sector DL-Y d17

Let's just switch to those, eh?
 

cybort

C
forbiddenlake said:
Fun fact: you can calculate the proc-gen name from the id64, and use that, so;

Sol: Shudun Sector AA-A d0

V2345 Orionis: Col 69 Sector PE-E b13-3
V2345 Orionis: Col 69 Sector CB-L b9-2
V2345 Orionis: Col 69 Sector GH-J b10-34

I Carinae: Synuefe HH-V f2-10
I Carinae: Puppis Sector DL-Y d17

Let's just switch to those, eh?
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This is useful, but I doubt anyone can remember the id to calculate later...
 

ꝁestrel

ꝁestrel
Ian Doncaster said:
I think you're right about "Same system in two different places from two separate star catalogues" being the explanation.
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Yep this is the reason.

One system is i Carinae (HD 79447) from the Henry Draper catalog.

And the other is I Carinae (HR 4102) from the Yale Bright Star catalog.

The disambiguation is not a problem for most combined catalogs because they're case sensitive.
 

Frankymole

Frankymole
There is a system with an engineer that is a duplicated star in-game and thus in two places with different planets etc. All caused by a spelling error.
Beta-3 Tucani
Beta-3 Tucanae
 

andrewg_oz

andrewg_oz
forbiddenlake said:
you can calculate the proc-gen name from the id64
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I'd forgotten about that! EDSM should show the proc-gen name if it's different from the galmap name. That way if you needed to go to a particular one, it would be easy to enter the proc-gen name and get the correct destination.
 

Neilski

Neilski
varonica said:
There are 230,000+ visited catalogue systems, who knows how many unvisited, we can really only go by the data we have unless FDEV tells us.
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That's still a very useful data point. If you're getting that 230k+ from the Spansh dataset - which has around 150M systems - then it's suggesting that around 1 in each 650 systems is a catalogue system. (By now, players have visited close to twice as many systems as that in total, but of course not all of them contribute their data.)
Kestrel1 said:
The disambiguation is not a problem for most combined catalogs because they're case sensitive.
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Ahh... 😶
Frankymole said:
There is a system with an engineer that is a duplicated star in-game and thus in two places with different planets etc. All caused by a spelling error.
Beta-3 Tucani
Beta-3 Tucanae
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Inara tells me I've visited and ranked up with The Sarge, so I guess "Beta-3 Tucani" must take you to the correct star. Unless you're saying the engineer is present in both??
 
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