Ships History of ship buffs and nerfs - we could have 67 ships by now! (instead of 33)

[madbilly]

Hi everyone,

I made this table of ships in ED and how they've been changed since release. I used the patch notes but I think there's still some things missing, if you can point out any errors that would be helpful.

Why did I do this?

Since ED was released various ships have been given buffs, and sometimes nerfs. Some ships are now so different they might as well be a new ship - the type-7 is the most obvious example of this, but others too. Personally I'd prefer it if FDev just made new ships as a MkII or III and modified the model and artwork etc - like we have for the Cobra and Viper MkIVs - and reduced the prices of the MkI versions (or increased the price, in the case of the nerfs). This is what they did with the ship-launched fighters, so it's not difficult - I've included SLFs in the table below to show this.

This table is to show us how many different ships we could have, and hopefully to encourage FDev to take a different approach with future buffs and nerfs.

Spoiler

Ship

1.0

1.1

1.2

1.2.03

1.3

1.4

2.0

2.1

2.2

2.2.03

2.3

2.4

2.4.08

2.4 20th Dec 2017

3.0

Adder

First release

Multi-crew

Alliance Chieftain

First release

Anaconda

First release

Fighter bay added

Added new military slot 1x size 5

Multi-crew

Asp Explorer

First release

Multi-crew

Asp Scout

First release

New size 2 slot. Size 5 slot replacing a size 4 slot. Multi-crew.

Beluga Liner

First release

Mass reduced by ~14% to give FSD range similar to other similarly sized ships. Multi-crew

Cobra MkIII

First release

Multi-crew

Cobra MkIV

First release

Multi-crew

Diamondback Explorer

First release

Extra size 2 slot and is ~10% lighter

Diamondback Scout

First release

Dolphin

First release

Eagle (MkII)

First release

+1 size 1 slot

Added new military slot 1x size 2

F-63 Condor

First release

Increasing it's transverse acceleration from 10 to 20

F-63 Condor Aegis

First release

Federal Assault Ship

First release

Moved utility hardpoint out of line of fire

Added new military slots 2x size 4

Multi-crew

Federal Corvette

First release

Fighter bay added

Added new military slots 2x size 5

Multi-crew

Federal Dropship

Cheaper

Added new military slots 2x size 4

Multi-crew

Federal Gunship

First release

Fighter bay added

Added new military slots 3x size 4

Multi-crew

Fer-de-Lance

First release

Cheaper

Increased the manoeuvrability Increased its power plant from 5 to 6 Increased its heat dissipation

Rebalanced heat efficiency to offset the increased power plant change

Multi-crew

Hauler

First release

Doubled hull health

Imperial Clipper

First release

Multi-crew

Imperial Courier

First release

Imperial Cutter

First release

Fighter bay added

Added new military slots 2x size 5

Multi-crew

Imperial Eagle

First release

Added new military slot 1x size 2

Imperial Fighter

First release

Keelback

First release

Fighter bay added. Increased armour by ~36%, shields by ~22% and hardness base stats. Increased a size 3 slot to a size 4 slot.

Doubled hull health

Multi-crew, second seat added

Orca

First release

Tweaked flight model

HALVED! mass to increase jump range and effectiveness. Multi-crew

Python

First release

Speeds, turn rates and accelerations reduced by ~17%, base shield strength reduced by ~33%! Still, faster than a Hauler and more manoeuvrable than an Anaconda.

Multi-crew

Sidewinder

First release

+1 size 1 slot

Taipan

First release

Taipan Aegis

First release

Taipan AX

First release

Type-10 Defender

First release

Increased the power distributor slot to size 7

Type-6 Transporter

First release

Fixed incorrect armour hardness values

Doubled hull health

Type-7 Transporter

First release

Better toughness and increased slots 1x5->6; 1x4->5; 2x2->3

Doubled hull health

Mass lowered to 350 tons from 420 Power Plant increased to class 5 from 4 Power Distributor increased to class 4 from 3 Class 2 slot added

Type-9 Heavy

First release

Fighter bay added

Doubled hull health

Multi-crew

Added an extra Size 8 slot. Lowered mass by 150

Viper (MkIII)

First release

Reduce hull mass by 10 tons. Added new military slot 1x size 3

Viper MkIV

First release

Added new military slot 1x size 3

Vulture

First release

Cheaper

Added new military slot 1x size 5

Multi-crew

Note, when I say "67 ships", I'm not counting every box as a new ship. I've ignored "cheaper" (because this is what should happen, not buffs and nerfs), "multi-crew" and "fighter bays" because these capabilities were added when the feature was enabled in the game, so didn't actually change anything - except the Keelback which got it's fighter bay later, so counts as a change. Also, 67 excludes SLFs.

Like I said at the beginning, if you know of any change I've missed please tell me and I'll try to keep this table up to date.

Again, 67 ships! Come on FDev, you know it makes sense

Cheers

PS - my maths may also be wrong, it's maybe 66 or 68

 

[CMDR MAIN SEQUENCE]

Nice work, was thinking about doing something like this myself so you've saved me the effort

Re FAS - "Moved small hardpoint" in 2.0 - this must be a mistake in the 2.0 patch notes (quoted below) as of course the FAS does not have small (or tiny?) hardpoints.

- Moved the Small hard point from the underside to the side, so the hardpoints can fire without shooting into them on the Federal Assault Ship
- Fixed tiny hardpoint placement and tweaked hitcheck on Federal Assault Ship

 

[CMDR Fingerrod]

First, props to you for putting this together. I think many ED players take breaks for months at a time, and coming back to something like this is helpful.

If anything, I like to see FDev take an additional step and offer random variations of the ships at shipyards. I know the idea of RNG already upsets people, but in a living universe one would have to think there would be variations even within a ship model.

Balance them out or make them rare, I really do not care. Imagine a Cobra that loses two size two compartments but gains three size ones, or a Vulture that downgrades a size 5 to a size 4 but gains a larger fuel tank. Overtime they could add several variations to existing ships breathing life into them for years to come. This community would do some pretty cool things with them.

 

[Madrax573]

So when a ship gets 'tweaked' to improve balance you'd prefer it to just be made into a MKII or whatever and the original become the MKI?

That would lead to so many complaints about ships being OP or next to useless.... Just because it get a balance tweak doesn't mean it should become a new ship IMO. More ship doesn't always mean more variety or balance. And balancing things by cost is next to useless in an online game....

I would rather see different ships from the Elite universe (Moa, krait (soon maybe), etc) than this IMO.

 

[57thStIncident]

Interesting summary. I don't know how many of these really deserve to have been 'new models', seems a lot of it was done for balancing reasons, probably influenced by the weapon power increase etc. that engineering provided. Do you think the different variants of F63 or Taipan are really different ships?

I can imagine that some of these could have been represented as new models e.g. Mk II etc., and that possibly CMDRs would have needed to trade in their old ships at some cost to upgrade.

Making this more realistic though it might even depress the cost of the old ship, which I can imagine that might not be all that popular with existing owners.

I do generally like the idea of variants though -- e.g. Type 6/Keelback, Eagle/Imp Eagle, Viper III/IV, AspS/AspEx, DBS/DBX, Type 9/Type 10. Some of the 'cousins' are closer than others. I hardly consider Cobra III and Cobra IV to be related -- these two feel more like Type 6 vs. Type 7.

I know some would probably prefer adding all-new assets but I think more variety is a good thing, even if FDev can economize a little.

 

[damon8r351]

On the Type-7's recent changes:

-Hull mass lowered to 350 tons from 420 tons
-Power Plant increased to class 5 from class 4
-Power Distributor increased to class 4 from class 3
-Class 2 optional slot added

"Improve its jump range" is technically correct, but doesn't reflect the details of what was done.

 

[madbilly]

Nice work, was thinking about doing something like this myself so you've saved me the effort

Re FAS - "Moved small hardpoint" in 2.0 - this must be a mistake in the 2.0 patch notes (quoted below) as of course the FAS does not have small (or tiny?) hardpoints.

Thanks! Glad you ofund it useful. On the FAS, I've never had one so overlooked this point. I think that "tiny" hardpoints are for utilities, so what I think the notes mean is that they moved a utility hardpoint out of the line of fire of a weapon hardpoint. Now I realise this I think it's a bug, so doesn't count as a new version.

OP editted to clarify this and to remove all that white space that I missed before!

 

[madbilly]

First, props to you for putting this together. I think many ED players take breaks for months at a time, and coming back to something like this is helpful.

If anything, I like to see FDev take an additional step and offer random variations of the ships at shipyards. I know the idea of RNG already upsets people, but in a living universe one would have to think there would be variations even within a ship model.

Balance them out or make them rare, I really do not care. Imagine a Cobra that loses two size two compartments but gains three size ones, or a Vulture that downgrades a size 5 to a size 4 but gains a larger fuel tank. Overtime they could add several variations to existing ships breathing life into them for years to come. This community would do some pretty cool things with them.

Thanks! Personally I've just arrived at Colonia after exploring for almost two years, so some of the ships have changed considerably - my T6 has been sat in the bubble being quietly upgraded without any need for engineering!

I like your idea of variations of ships at different shipyards. Perhaps these are options we can choose when we purchase the ship, and not all shipyards offer all options. E.g. You have to go to the factory to get all options. Cool idea, lots of potential.

 

[madbilly]

So when a ship gets 'tweaked' to improve balance you'd prefer it to just be made into a MKII or whatever and the original become the MKI?

That would lead to so many complaints about ships being OP or next to useless.... Just because it get a balance tweak doesn't mean it should become a new ship IMO. More ship doesn't always mean more variety or balance. And balancing things by cost is next to useless in an online game....

I would rather see different ships from the Elite universe (Moa, krait (soon maybe), etc) than this IMO.

Firstly, I totally agree with you about wanting to see more completely new ships, especially more of the ships from previous games.

Sometimes the new ship could be a Mk II, III, whatever, and cost a little more. In the case of the Python and FdL nerfs the original are like the rally homologation specials of the 20th century - the early models were the proper rally spec, whereas the later ones (after the homologation run was complete) got watered down - so in the case the original should be called "RS" or something! If the specs change a huge amount then it's not the same ship at all, it should be a new ship.

I disagree about using cost for balancing - that is basically how ALL balancing is already done in the game. Want the best medium ship for combat? Okay then you probably want an FdL, but you have to pay for it. Can only afford an Asp Scout? Well, then that's all you can have.

 

[madbilly]

Interesting summary. I don't know how many of these really deserve to have been 'new models', seems a lot of it was done for balancing reasons, probably influenced by the weapon power increase etc. that engineering provided. Do you think the different variants of F63 or Taipan are really different ships?

I can imagine that some of these could have been represented as new models e.g. Mk II etc., and that possibly CMDRs would have needed to trade in their old ships at some cost to upgrade.

Making this more realistic though it might even depress the cost of the old ship, which I can imagine that might not be all that popular with existing owners.

I do generally like the idea of variants though -- e.g. Type 6/Keelback, Eagle/Imp Eagle, Viper III/IV, AspS/AspEx, DBS/DBX, Type 9/Type 10. Some of the 'cousins' are closer than others. I hardly consider Cobra III and Cobra IV to be related -- these two feel more like Type 6 vs. Type 7.

I know some would probably prefer adding all-new assets but I think more variety is a good thing, even if FDev can economize a little.

I listed AX and Aegis versions of the Taipan and Condor separately because they actually have different manoeuvrabilities and speeds than the other variants. Oddly, the Aegis Imperial Fighter does not. (as far as I know - I'm happy to be corrected).

Depressing the cost of the old ship is actually what I had in mind. The cost of the new variant stays the same as the initial cost of the previous variant, but the cost of the previous variant is reduced. As for not being popular with existing owners: ship purchase discounts and premiums already exist, and there is already a precedent for changing the price of ships: FDS, FdL and Vulture in 1.2.03.

On the Type-7's recent changes:

-Hull mass lowered to 350 tons from 420 tons
-Power Plant increased to class 5 from class 4
-Power Distributor increased to class 4 from class 3
-Class 2 optional slot added

"Improve its jump range" is technically correct, but doesn't reflect the details of what was done.

Thanks for the breakdown. Yes the patchnotes don't really do it justice, I'm sure there are many other examples of this too, I'll do more research if I have time.

OP updated, thanks!

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

more ship variants for the sake of balancing sounds like a bad idea,
when the whole micro-transaction only allows you to buy decorations for single ships.

how would you react if you have just bought a shipkit + paintjob for a ship,
and then they release a variant for it just to fix one of the issues it had.

 

[madbilly]

more ship variants for the sake of balancing sounds like a bad idea,
when the whole micro-transaction only allows you to buy decorations for single ships.

how would you react if you have just bought a shipkit + paintjob for a ship,
and then they release a variant for it just to fix one of the issues it had.

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. Still, FDev could just massively reduce the price of paintjobs and shipkits again like they did last year.

 

[madbilly]

OP updated with as much detail as I could glean from the forums and BIG thanks for coriolis.io changelogs

 

[Guywired]

You know.. I really REALLY love this idea.

I mean.. Frontier has for awhile treated in game items from paintjobs to ships (looking at you Cobra Mk4) as collectors items.

I think it would be pretty cool if they issued updates to ships with a new "MkX" to them and then either kept both in the game as they have the Viper/Cobra variants or just pull the old version from the stores and let collectors still horde them.

Honestly that would be a lot of fun and to the OP's point, really open up some variety in ship ownership between NPC's and CMDRs.

 

[madbilly]

You know.. I really REALLY love this idea.

I mean.. Frontier has for awhile treated in game items from paintjobs to ships (looking at you Cobra Mk4) as collectors items.

I think it would be pretty cool if they issued updates to ships with a new "MkX" to them and then either kept both in the game as they have the Viper/Cobra variants or just pull the old version from the stores and let collectors still horde them.

Honestly that would be a lot of fun and to the OP's point, really open up some variety in ship ownership between NPC's and CMDRs.

I like the idea of older variants becoming unavailable to buy anymore, but CMDRs who already have the older versions can hoard them! I presume rebuy would still be possible to get the older version right?

This is a nice idea, like a reverse "Horizons only" limitation... more like the Cobra MkIV limit, that you had to have been playing ED since the early days to get these specs of ships - even if, apart from the Python, the older versions are rubbish!

 

[znôrt]

I think it would be pretty cool if they issued updates to ships with a new "MkX" to them and then either kept both in the game as they have the Viper/Cobra variants or just pull the old version from the stores and let collectors still horde them.

Honestly that would be a lot of fun and to the OP's point, really open up some variety in ship ownership between NPC's and CMDRs.

dunno, 2.0 fdl was spectacularly broken, if we still had it around there would be little variation and no balance at all ... oh wait!

i'm not against this idea, but it is naive to think you can maintain variations for free. once created every ship variation would need to be maintained as a separate ship, and would play in the overall complexity. you simply can't maintain 60 ships for the effort of maintaining 30.

 

[Guywired]

dunno, 2.0 fdl was spectacularly broken, if we still had it around there would be little variation and no balance at all ... oh wait!

i'm not against this idea, but it is naive to think you can maintain variations for free. once created every ship variation would need to be maintained as a separate ship, and would play in the overall complexity. you simply can't maintain 60 ships for the effort of maintaining 30.

I think it's fair to assume that maintaining that list wouldn't be as cheap as maintaining the current list. But let's not assume that cost AND let's recognize that having a HUGE living universe complete with a wide variety of ships to chose from and tinker with is the point of Elite: Dangerous. Without the 'problem' of having a lot of ships to chose from, I'm not sure you really even have a game.

HOWEVER, I do have to concede that a ship can be so broken that it's variant should be unavailable going forward.

And it could be argued that's the case with the existing ship library. You have a point there.

Maybe it gets "balanced" by forcing the upgraded variant on the rebuy screen?

I don't know. That's a tough nut right there.

 

[madbilly]

dunno, 2.0 fdl was spectacularly broken, if we still had it around there would be little variation and no balance at all ... oh wait!

i'm not against this idea, but it is naive to think you can maintain variations for free. once created every ship variation would need to be maintained as a separate ship, and would play in the overall complexity. you simply can't maintain 60 ships for the effort of maintaining 30.

No it wouldn't be free. I also agree with your feeling about variation and balance but in a different way - I don't really care about balance. Personally I would prefer that the effort that currently goes into "balancing" existing ships went into creating completely new ships. FDev don't know exactly what I want in a ship, so I want as much variety as possible so I can find the ship that is most balanced for my preferred style (s?) of play.

Also this tweaking ships business is pretty disappointing from the "immersion" point of view. Since I've been out traveling the galaxy my type-6 say in a hangar somewhere (Alioth?) has magically gained a hull with twice the integrity and my DBX has got more space for equipment and lost weight, whilst the AspX that I'm actually flying in has had er, nothing. Hmm. Maybe Lakon sent out technicians to my hangars to do the modifications for free?

I think it's fair to assume that maintaining that list wouldn't be as cheap as maintaining the current list. But let's not assume that cost AND let's recognize that having a HUGE living universe complete with a wide variety of ships to chose from and tinker with is the point of Elite: Dangerous. Without the 'problem' of having a lot of ships to chose from, I'm not sure you really even have a game.

HOWEVER, I do have to concede that a ship can be so broken that it's variant should be unavailable going forward.

And it could be argued that's the case with the existing ship library. You have a point there.

Maybe it gets "balanced" by forcing the upgraded variant on the rebuy screen?

I don't know. That's a tough nut right there.

I don't want to be forced to buy the new version at the rebuy screen! I'm very happy with my Mk1 Ford Focus RS, I don't want a Mk3!

 

[Guywired]

I don't want to be forced to buy the new version at the rebuy screen! I'm very happy with my Mk1 Ford Focus RS, I don't want a Mk3!

I totally get what you're saying. I do.

I'm not saying it HAS to be that way, but we do need to consider "broken" ships and unintended events. Those models should be purged to discourage exploits.

 

[madbilly]

I totally get what you're saying. I do.

I'm not saying it HAS to be that way, but we do need to consider "broken" ships and unintended events. Those models should be purged to discourage exploits.

Yes good point. I didn't explain that in my OP but I didn't consider (or list, generally) "bug fixes" for ships. Any ship that was broken needed to be fixed and I agree can be removed from play at the rebuy screen.