Hot takes for planet zoo

[Milurian]

See, I don't really get that argument. whether or not a species is "iconic" is super subjective. I consider superb lyrebirds to be an icon of Australia when barely anyone's heard of them. I don't really get why species are only seen as mono-continental (the greater flamingo and grey wolf are worse offenders, granted), it's just an arbitrary limitation to limits creativity and thinking. Maybe we should normalise the idea of white-tailed deer as Amazonian species, even if it seems weird at first. Doesn't hurt anybody and it enables more freedom.

For something to be iconic it has to be functionally present in the environment. Whilst yes the white tailed deer does range into the amazon it both doesnt have a large range there and it isnt a large proportion of its own range.
The white tailed deer is a south american animals and an amazonian animal but it is definitely not iconic to the amazon only ranging in the outskirts of the forest and in areas where there is not alot of people. It could be considered an iconic south american animals but that is fairly nuanced with its status as an iconic north american animal getting in the way and the fact it only ranges in the north west even if its very common there. Add that to the large majority of internationally known areas of south america being outside white tail deer habitat and it doesnt generally get perceived as iconic.

Grey wolves as a whole have never been seen as mono continental just that the generic one we have is HEAVILY inspired by a north american subspecies both in name, scenery and style so to some people its only usable in that context. The greater flamingo isnt mono continental either and I havent heard anyone say otherwise except maybe that there isnt enough other animals to build a proper Mediterranean section and doesnt really fit with our asian animals.

 

[Mjmannella]

For something to be iconic it has to be functionally present in the environment. Whilst yes the white tailed deer does range into the amazon it both doesnt have a large range there and it isnt a large proportion of its own range.

I don't know what's meant by being "functionally present". White-tailed deer are functionally in the Amazon. What exactly is the cut-of threshold for constituting a "large range"?
This is what I mean by the notion of something being "iconic". Everything is iconic to someone, you can't quantify it objectively.

It could be considered an iconic south american animals but that is fairly nuanced with its status as an iconic north american animal getting in the way

Leopards are well-established as being both African and Asian, why can't the same apply to other multi-continental species? Is this something that needs to be mutually exclusive?

Grey wolves as a whole have never been seen as mono continental just that the generic one we have is HEAVILY inspired by a north american subspecies both in name, scenery and style so to some people its only usable in that context.

I've harped on this before, but grey wolves look like grey wolves. I don't see how a couple of signs mean it's unusable in Eurasian sectors. While the term "timber wolf" is typically used for certain North American subspecies, it's not exclusively used in that manner. It's mainly used in a polyphyletic way to mean "grey wolves that live in forests".

maybe that there isnt enough other animals to build a proper Mediterranean section

We have red deer, crested porcupines, and caracals. Those are all species found on Mediterranean coasts.

doesnt really fit with our asian animals.

We have lots of water-loving species from Asia like gharials, elephants, water buffalo, and otters. Heck, you could even make a fun oasis-like build with flamingos and dromedaries.

 

[RightWhale]

I dont know I feel it will happen much sooner considering we have our second pack with 2 birds and since arid we have been getting at least 1 bird per pack EXCEPT THE PACK LITERALLY DEDICATED TO US. I think that as we get more animals birds will inevitably come closer to the front of what's viewed as essential.

I hope so, but after 5 years of getting maybe 2-3 birds a year it’s hard for me to sit back and think “yeah, it’s all gonna change now”

Say we went back to 4 packs a year, and we get two birds a pack. Then I will concede.

 

[synthetase]

Its like Red Foxes vs Bat-eared Foxes, IMO...
Yes, the Red Fox is found in African Grasslands. Yet, those grasslands are so Northern in the continent that it barely counts. The Bat-eared Fox is more typical of African Foxes. So is the Fennec but the Fennec is limited to Deserts. I selfishly want a smaller dog like animal of the Grasslands of Africa, even if its an Aardwolf. Or maybe Madagascar Flying Fox LOL.

 

[caninesrock]

-I actually really love the coyote in the upcoming pack. (Although this does mean a Red Wolf is probably never happening now, so that makes me a little sad.)

-I kind of wish one of the 2 remaining animals is a Bush Dog even though that would be 2 canids in one pack.

-I would be ok with the American Black Bear in this pack as long as they also have a Coati.

- Let's finish off the hyena family with the Aardwolf and Brown Hyena.

 

[synthetase]

-I kind of wish one of the 2 remaining animals is a Bush Dog even though that would be 2 canids in one pack.

Me too! I don't think the game needs anymore canids but I'd still love to see/ make an exception for an unique one! Raccoon Dog would also be pretty cool in the future if Bush Dog doesn't show up...

 

[Milurian]

I don't know what's meant by being "functionally present". White-tailed deer are functionally in the Amazon. What exactly is the cut-of threshold for constituting a "large range"?
This is what I mean by the notion of something being "iconic". Everything is iconic to someone, you can't quantify it objectively.

Leopards are well-established as being both African and Asian, why can't the same apply to other multi-continental species? Is this something that needs to be mutually exclusive?

Even in the example you used leopards whilst yes are well established as both asian and african they are more associated with africa being considered on of the top 5 tourist animals. If you had actually red the sentence you quoted and the paragraph it was from I did say that considering the white tail deer iconic to south america is nuanced which means there are multiple factors influencing each other and may vary between people one of which is the strength of the deers association with north america but as already pointed out and explained there are others.

Functionally present and large range are fairly subjective terms but so are alot of terms used to describe the cultural and societal impact of something. In essence they mean that either a significant proportion of the animals range and population are in the amazon or it is seen in significant numbers within the heart of the amazon.
The white tail deer exists only along the northern edge of the forest so towards the functional biological diversity of the forest it does very little as it only really interacts with the transitional zones and doesnt not hold significant numbers within the forest. This is also combined with the fact that the white tails range and population are very big so the small proportion of its range and numbers that are in the amazon play no significant role to the population as a whole.
All of this combined with the other ideas I mentioned previously influence the subjective but still important cultural view that white tail deer are not amazonain species any more than the greater rhea is.

In very simple terms

• the amazon is only a small part of its habitat
• it doesnt get far into the amazon or have a big population there

You can quantify whether something is iconic you just have to ask a large sample of people what are their views and that is an objective measure of something that is entirely subjective.


also I do agree with you on the wolves but others for valid reasons dont agree and that is also fine.

 

[Mjmannella]

leopards whilst yes are well established as both asian and african they are more associated with africa being considered on of the top 5 tourist animals.

On the flipside, Asian leopard subspecies are far more prevalent in conservation programs and zoos. This gives them recognition as an Asian species.

If you had actually red the sentence you quoted and the paragraph it was from I did say that considering the white tail deer iconic to south america is nuanced which means there are multiple factors influencing each other and may vary between people one of which is the strength of the deers association with north america but as already pointed out and explained there are others.

That nuance was detracted right after with the remark of its North American recognition "getting in the way", which was the focus of my reply. Apologies if I didn't make that clear.

All of this combined with the other ideas I mentioned previously influence the subjective but still important cultural view that white tail deer are not amazonain species any more than the greater rhea is.

I'm willing to agree with that. Greater rheas are indeed found the the Southwestern parts of the Amazon Rainforest, so I would consider them as such.

 

[Milurian]

On the flipside, Asian leopard subspecies are far more prevalent in conservation programs and zoos. This gives them recognition as an Asian species.

That nuance was detracted right after with the remark of its North American recognition "getting in the way", which was the focus of my reply. Apologies if I didn't make that clear.

I'm willing to agree with that. Greater rheas are indeed found the the Southwestern parts of the Amazon Rainforest, so I would consider them as such.

maybe I could of picked a better term that getting in the way but the point was still valid. Which was that the extent of the influence in north america negatively impacts its ability to be perceived as south american. I truly thought you just missed my point.

 

[RightWhale]

In a good way finally getting some birds for the Americas takes some of the wind out of my sails. Like wow, we did it gang, bare minimum representation for birds in PZ. Granted the two most likely species, the American Flamingo and Greater Rhea don’t cover all of the Americas, at least it’s still something!

We did it guys, all of North America and South America now matches New Zealand and Europe in bird representation! I would like it but I’m not counting on a third bird in the next pack.

So now we move on to the next part, what do I consider to be the last “essential” birds. The list has certainly gotten smaller, but I am also not counting surprise (but welcomed) oddballs:

1. A duck/ Waterfowl
2. A tropical house bird (preferably another duck)
3. A new crane
4. A pelican
5. New gamebird/ pheasant
6. New penguin, preferably an Antarctic one
7. Secretary bird

While I’m not huge on the secretary bird I’ll admit it’s been #1 for so long. Still not counting on any WTE birds but they would be welcomed! I would also say I genuinely think just a couple more “clones” would go a long way. Obviously I still want my tropical duck species, but I’ll also admit if we get the more popular mandarin duck I wouldn’t be mad. Though personally I think the mandarin duck fills some similar slots to the Mute Swan (temperate waterfowl and good ambient animal).

Obviously would I love more? Of course! Do I envision North America and South America getting more bird representation? Not at all. But I think we get the right 7 or so birds, and I’ll be fairly happy. I’ll always want more of course, but it does get to a certain point of personal wants vs. what I think the game needs. (And also what I can see Frontier actually doing)

 

[synthetase]

In a good way finally getting some birds for the Americas takes some of the wind out of my sails. Like wow, we did it gang, bare minimum representation for birds in PZ. Granted the two most likely species, the American Flamingo and Greater Rhea don’t cover all of the Americas, at least it’s still something!
View attachment 424826
We did it guys, all of North America and South America now matches New Zealand and Europe in bird representation! I would like it but I’m not counting on a third bird in the next pack.

So now we move on to the next part, what do I consider to be the last “essential” birds. The list has certainly gotten smaller, but I am also not counting surprise (but welcomed) oddballs:

1. A duck/ Waterfowl
2. A tropical house bird (preferably another duck)
3. A new crane
4. A pelican
5. New gamebird/ pheasant
6. New penguin, preferably an Antarctic one
7. Secretary bird

While I’m not huge on the secretary bird I’ll admit it’s been #1 for so long. Still not counting on any WTE birds but they would be welcomed! I would also say I genuinely think just a couple more “clones” would go a long way. Obviously I still want my tropical duck species, but I’ll also admit if we get the more popular mandarin duck I wouldn’t be mad. Though personally I think the mandarin duck fills some similar slots to the Mute Swan (temperate waterfowl and good ambient animal).
View attachment 424827View attachment 424828View attachment 424829View attachment 424831View attachment 424832View attachment 424834View attachment 424835

Obviously would I love more? Of course! Do I envision North America and South America getting more bird representation? Not at all. But I think we get the right 7 or so birds, and I’ll be fairly happy. I’ll always want more of course, but it does get to a certain point of personal wants vs. what I think the game needs. (And also what I can see Frontier actually doing)

I hope (now that we FINALLY got another canid) that the next pack is an avian pack! The lineup you posted would be great!

• Mandarin Duck
• White-faced Whistling Duck
• Sandhill Crane
• Great White Pelican
• Golden Pheasant
• Rockhopper Penguin
• Secretarybird

I mean, that'd be a good pack. I'd enjoy it! The only thing about that pack is there's not much for mammal lovers so maybe they could throw in a bat (or even a random gliding animal like Flying Squirrel) for the (Walkthrough) Exhibit and call it Flying Animal Pack... Penguins are technically flightless, BUT they fly through water LOL.

 

[Markiz]

I hope (now that we FINALLY got another canid) that the next pack is an avian pack! The lineup you posted would be great!

• Mandarin Duck
• White-faced Whistling Duck
• Sandhill Crane
• Great White Pelican
• Golden Pheasant
• Rockhopper Penguin
• Secretarybird

I mean, that'd be a good pack. I'd enjoy it! The only thing about that pack is there's not much for mammal lovers so maybe they could throw in a bat (or even a random gliding animal like Flying Squirrel) for the (Walkthrough) Exhibit and call it Flying Animal Pack... Penguins are technically flightless, BUT they fly through water LOL.

I can see Avian pack being the last pack whenever that time comes, to throw community a bone, when there's no more cute carnivores to sell

 

[synthetase]

I can see Avian pack being the last pack whenever that time comes, to throw community a bone, when there's no more cute carnivores to sell

There will ALWAYS be cute carnivores to sell...
Edit to add: I hope if Avian is the last pack that it would be bigger than usual. I think ~10 birds would still sell really well even without a mammal.

 

[RightWhale]

Sandhill Crane

Man, I think the grey crowned crane would be the better choice, but I would love to get one of the native cranes to NA. Such good conservation stories too!

 

[SanRazo]

Man, I think the grey crowned crane would be the better choice, but I would love to get one of the native cranes to NA. Such good conservation stories too!

Hefty fine if you hit one here in FL everyone steers clear of them

 

[TremendousTimAllen]

I hope (now that we FINALLY got another canid) that the next pack is an avian pack! The lineup you posted would be great!

• Mandarin Duck
• White-faced Whistling Duck
• Sandhill Crane
• Great White Pelican
• Golden Pheasant
• Rockhopper Penguin
• Secretarybird

I mean, that'd be a good pack. I'd enjoy it! The only thing about that pack is there's not much for mammal lovers so maybe they could throw in a bat (or even a random gliding animal like Flying Squirrel) for the (Walkthrough) Exhibit and call it Flying Animal Pack... Penguins are technically flightless, BUT they fly through water LOL.

Can someone help me out, I've seen the secretary bird at a couple of real zoos and both were in fully enclosed aviaries. Can they be kept without, similar to pelicans and flamingos? Or would they just fly away?

I think they're awesome and would be great in the game... but only if it makes sense

 

[bkfireshark]

Can someone help me out, I've seen the secretary bird at a couple of real zoos and both were in fully enclosed aviaries. Can they be kept without, similar to pelicans and flamingos? Or would they just fly away?

I think they're awesome and would be great in the game... but only if it makes sense

Secretary Birds can fly, but they predominantly spend their time on the ground. I've seen them in multiple exhibits with no roof or covering of any sort, so it can for sure be done

 

[NachoB]

I think they're awesome and would be great in the game... but only if it makes sense

I will never understand that self limitation that people impose on themselves with this rule. If you like the animal then is perfectly fine to want them for the game even if it isn't common in captivity or are not kept outdoors or in open habitats. Swans can fly, yet we have them in the game. Kiwis and platypus (don't know the plural here lol) are not kept in outdoor habitats, yet we have them in the game. Saigas are barely found in any zoo (if any) yet we have them in the game.

And if you want to be realistic with it, you can. Just build an enclosed enclosure and done. That's the great thing about Planet Zoo, the level of creative freedom that enables.

 

[Marvinb]

Can someone help me out, I've seen the secretary bird at a couple of real zoos and both were in fully enclosed aviaries. Can they be kept without, similar to pelicans and flamingos? Or would they just fly away?

I think they're awesome and would be great in the game... but only if it makes sense

Pelicans and flamingos can only be kept in open habitats if their wings got clipped, which would be the same for secretary

 

[DarthQuell]

Can someone help me out, I've seen the secretary bird at a couple of real zoos and both were in fully enclosed aviaries. Can they be kept without, similar to pelicans and flamingos? Or would they just fly away?

I think they're awesome and would be great in the game... but only if it makes sense

Just remember that many cats, primates, and some carnivorans are found solely in covered enclosures, yet we got them anyways.
If you wanna be realistic, just build a mesh over them. If you don't particularly care, don't worry about it