How and why is the meta killing the game?! Is it a problem with player expectations?

[WR3ND]

I mean, seriously, the more I think about it the more baffled and disappointed I become. I wonder why a significant portion of the forum posters even bother with the game at all. I don't think this is due to any fault of the game in particular, just maybe player expectations about it. The negativity here hurts my soul, for goodness sake.

Look, I have high hopes for the game as well and would certainly like to see more from it, but damn. Chill out for goodness sake. It's like a bunch of rabid flatulent ducks foaming at the beak around here. Quack!

Sorry if I've compromised your missions in death thralling or something, but taking a step back and looking at the greater picture of things, this mess is the heart I'm left with.

Spoiler

I guess there is a portion of people who don't like playing video games as a pastime.

I don't mean this to be a complaint thread, honestly, it's just an epiphany I came to.

Can't we just play the game sometimes? Can't we just not worry about meaningless grind and credits and materials and crafting for a while? Look, you all suck. I know it, you know it. It's OK to be bad at video games. Don't hate the game. [haha]

 

[Riverside]

One complaint left unaddressed leads to more, until it becomes the new normal to complain, like kids getting louder & louder in a classroom to make their voices heard over the clatter, until the teacher comes in & gives us the attention we crave.

Sandro has been engaged with the community today over the KWS, it's helping him to understand the way the game is used, and it's helping the people in that thread to understand what's useful feedback & what's not so much.

The community has been left fallow for so long there is an enormous list of 'feedback' to find in an even bigger pile of clutter that focused feedback & dedicated new threads are probably the only way to deal with it now, but it's being done & that's good.

So it's a mess, but it seems to be getting better. I hope the trend continues.

 

[DaggerSnake]

I try not to engage in any threads that are unproductive or just negative complaints for complaints sake. Posting just bumps them. Just moving on and letting that stuff die is the most powerful tool you have. It's hard though, sometimes people are looking through such narrow lenses, you just have to jump in.

At the end of the day you are in control of clicking on that launcher and if you're doing something you aren't enjoying...well, I guess...don't? Do something else?

 

[Whitmann]

For me it ain't the meta killing the game. It's the game - or more specifically the lack of interesting and/or new things in it.
That's why I'm not playing it. I'm sort of keeping in touch with the forums, because...habit? Allegiance? HOPE? But in a very real way I wish I could just walk away from it all, in its entirety.

 

[Yure]

Can't we just play the game sometimes? Can't we just not worry about meaningless grind and credits and materials and crafting for a while? Look, you all suck. I know it, you know it. It's OK to be bad at video games. Don't hate the game. [haha]

But there is no quests. No storyline to follow. So at the end all there is, is making money and getting better ships to fight which needs money, and looking at planetary bodies which very rarely you'll come across an odd one. Other than that t they are all the same.

And I know some people are harsh or do not provide proper criticism, but those that do, do it because we care. Some of the stuff we ask for are things that in the bigger scheme of things can be implemented fairly easily. Or to improve awesome game elements that feel way too unifinished.

Yeah it's a game, but when the game just consists of repetitive mission motions and mind numbing loading screens (jumps). Then is it a game?

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I feel like I missed some big drama leading up to this. What happened?

 

[Mohrgan]

But there is no quests. No storyline to follow. So at the end all there is, is making money and getting better ships to fight which needs money, and looking at planetary bodies which very rarely you'll come across an odd one. Other than that t they are all the same.

And I know some people are harsh or do not provide proper criticism, but those that do, do it because we care. Some of the stuff we ask for are things that in the bigger scheme of things can be implemented fairly easily. Or to improve awesome game elements that feel way too unifinished.

Yeah it's a game, but when the game just consists of repetitive mission motions and mind numbing loading screens (jumps). Then is it a game?

If you can't put yourself in the setting of the game, a future dystopian society in space, you'll never see why we have the systems we have. If you can't accept that your character is not the center of the story, and that there is no 'hero's path' to follow, you may never be satisfied.

FD are giving us just what they said they'd be giving us: a procedurally generated world of contracts, space ships in a digital replica of our known galaxy. It is necessary to realistically consider disconnects from what you want, and what we have. FD's material tells you exactly what to expect, is it fair to anyone, yourself included, to be disappointed when you get what was promised, but not what you hoped for?

 

[Kubicide]

I feel like I missed some big drama leading up to this. What happened?

Me too. OP is obviously upset at something - himself / herself maybe?

But yeah, it's a game that some like "as is" and some don't. Better to have negative feedback than no feedback and wonder what happened to your customers... Does that make sense to you OP?

 

[Red Anders]

Can't we just play the game sometimes?

What fresh madness is this?

 

[MottiKhan]

There's a meta?

 

[Raumfahrer Spiff]

One complaint left unaddressed leads to more, until it becomes the new normal to complain, like kids getting louder & louder in a classroom to make their voices heard over the clatter, until the teacher comes in & gives us the attention we crave.

Sandro has been engaged with the community today over the KWS, it's helping him to understand the way the game is used, and it's helping the people in that thread to understand what's useful feedback & what's not so much.

The community has been left fallow for so long there is an enormous list of 'feedback' to find in an even bigger pile of clutter that focused feedback & dedicated new threads are probably the only way to deal with it now, but it's being done & that's good.

So it's a mess, but it seems to be getting better. I hope the trend continues.

Amen to that.




To OP's discussion:

What doesn't help is how we often let ourselves divide up into camps around the various debates that crop up, and then assume that "because some people agree with me, I'm right, so everyone should have to play the game based on x, y, z rules, because they benefit my gameplay." It's human nature to default to this, and almost every position is gonna have a selection of people that support it. We just have to remember that this is a game, not a natural right.

The only game changes we should ever be genuinely upset with are those that fully impede anyone's capability to "blaze their own trail," through any of the given domains in this open world of FDev's, since that is the premise that was sold to us.

Player expectation absolutely comes into it, because so many people go into this with this mentality that the trail they want to blaze should be given to them, but that's not the point of this game, the point is that you have to do the action of blazing yourself. You want this or that trail? Go blaze it, if you can.

You are given the option of certain tools and a set of starting conditions, and it is your task/challenge/game to use the tools to manipulate the given conditions, hopefully into the result you were aiming for--all based on your skills and the rule sets governing the tools and conditions. It's FDev's game, and so the choice of whatever those rules, conditions, and tools are belongs to them. Not us.

Ultimately there's an infinite possibility of ways that any given rule, or mechanic, or design choice, could be enacted. As long as whatever it is doesn't patently prevent someone from playing the game that they were sold, we need to get better at having dignity in defeat, when our ideas are sometimes passed up for one of the others among the many possible ways it could go.

Less of this toxic behavior of calling others toxic and pointing fingers and attacking each other personally, just because someone has a different vision for what the game could be. Whatever the game ends up being is FDev's responsibility, not the people posting suggestions or defending positions.

So many people on any side of any of these debates get so defensive and ugly (to the point that the argument ends up not even being about the game anymore), as if the game is supposed to be designed for them and them alone.

Whatever happens, happens. Deal with it. Unless it is objectively unfair, and provably making it impossible to do what the game sold you on; then is the time for constructive feedback--not vitriol and personal threats.

If you just don't like the way the game allows you to do those things, that means the game might not be meant for you. It's not the game's fault, or anyone else's really, you are just not the type of person that those aspect(s) of the game are designed to please.



IMHO.

 

[Belan]

The forums in any game only represent about 1% of the game's entire community. They are the vocal minority. Problem is, it's the only voice.

 

[crushdepth]

Fix the game!

 

[Yure]

If you can't put yourself in the setting of the game, a future dystopian society in space, you'll never see why we have the systems we have. If you can't accept that your character is not the center of the story, and that there is no 'hero's path' to follow, you may never be satisfied.

FD are giving us just what they said they'd be giving us: a procedurally generated world of contracts, space ships in a digital replica of our known galaxy. It is necessary to realistically consider disconnects from what you want, and what we have. FD's material tells you exactly what to expect, is it fair to anyone, yourself included, to be disappointed when you get what was promised, but not what you hoped for?

Oh I'm familiar with Role-playing... And I'm fine with not being the main hero. But where is the Space Trumps daily tweets? Where is The pirate king's most recent heist? What is Yuri from playing at? We are given these entities or events to support, but there is no meat and potatoes, just soup.

I guess I could wing up and RP it.... In that case where is my in gamedice roler? Where are my emotes? Where is my in game commander diary? Why can't I buy my own faction? Why can't I higher a crew of 5 to man my T10? These are elements that for a "sandbox" would be considered essential. So there is no main storyline and there is no tools to keep track of your role-playing. All there is making money and looking good.

What we have is good. What we have is not good enough. It's good but it can be great. And sure things take time and resources. But when simple quality of life things get overlooked (manual waypoints on planets, ) for a whole rehaul of a decently working crafting system, then people get miffed.

As far as perception. I just joined ED a year ago... I had no expectations on what was coming. So there was no perception on what to expect. I'm here now. I've played a bit. I love the community, but things could be better. We are asked for input because in theory the game is supposed to last ten years, so we give it in the hopes it will get better. If current state is what are expectations should be, great. I'll be moving along promptly after I beat the game by buying a corvette. But If we are expected to improve wether it be towards more "sandboxy" gameplay or a "narrative" driven gameplay, then we need the IN GAME tools to make that happen.

Perhaps the disconnect in perception and expectation lies in that previous Elite games had a story element to it along with groundbreaking gameplay?

 

[Roybe]

Playing the game does not preclude forum PVP...in many cases the game allows the other activity to occur...simultaneously!

 

[CMDR Corlas]

Gameplay balance issues affect everyone, to one degree or another. Even if the induvidual chooses to try to ignore that aspect of play.

"Blaze your own trail" is a marketing slogan in reference to an open-world ideal. It does not mean "you can do anything you can image, and anyone who says otherwise is bad". It means "you can do anything you want, within set gameplay mechanics".

Game mechanics therefore, and the balance issues they create, are always valid topics for discussion.

 

[kofeyh]

Frontier developed a game. People play it. The key issue seems to stem from the sudden realisation one player may have, that another player is also playing. This leads to an immediate existential crises. In any other game, someone else playing is the least of it's problems.

In elite? It's the end of everything.

 

[JonSnowman]

People like the game. Its unique, and has achieved some great things. But sooner or later you realise how much better it could have been. And then out of love for the game, you complain on the forums in the vain hope that it might one day be more than what it is.

 

[Darty]

If this game provided me with deep, engaging PvE gameplay that kept me busy, I wouldn't care about PvP meta at all and just play in solo or private group. But it doesn't, PvE stops being challenging or rewarding once you get good enough at the game to make enough credits to afford a decent combat ship. After reaching that point, I tried to expand my gameplay into powerplay (and therefor pvp), but I quickly found that PvP combat in this game is actually less interesting and engaging than PvE. It all comes down to who has the most meta build and using a bunch of magic spell debuff weapons to neuter and unique advantage their build might possibly give over a meta build. Every PvP encounter I have had, except for one, has felt just as one sided as a PvE battle, except sometimes I was on the side of the shieldless sidewinder wing. I've killed players and forced them to high wake using a terrible build that only gave me victory because I had better engineering mods than they did. On the flip side I have found myself completely at a loss as to how to fight actual PvP builds as doing so would require me to spend countless hours engineering (they are fixing this in 3.0 thankfully) and force me to use a VERY small set of ship and weapon combinations.

Maybe I'm just looking for too much out of this game. But as it is I am starting to struggle to find a reason to play. Powerplay is just a grindfest that occasionally is interrupted by one side killing or driving off the other without much of a fight. Of all the ships and builds in this game, PvP is mainly just FDL's, Clippers, and FAS, with the occasional corvette or cutter thrown in using PAs, Rail guns and frag cannons as their main weapons. The outcome of almost all PvP encounter's I have had could be determined just by looking at each side's build and engineering mods, with pilot skill basically determining if the losing side high waked or exploded.

I am new to all of this, so maybe my experience with PvP hasn't given me the full picture, but as it is right now I am seeing very little that interests me in the current PvP meta, and very little to keep me coming back to the game as a whole in general.

 

[WR3ND]

As stupid as the OP may seem at surface value, I sincerely appreciate all the thoughtful feedback in this thread so far. So, thank you for that. o7

It's been a bit of an unresolved bottled up issue that has risen to the surface for me here, partly brought on by finding out that one of my personal favorite and more compelling player factions in the game has had little to no activity for quite a while, and my introspection about the state and perception of the game as a whole because of that. I know... save the drama for your mama and all that. Thanks for humoring me a bit here.

For a little context, before this game I used to explore the galaxy in the astronomy space sim Celestia, getting myself lost and trying to find my way back home to Sol and Earth based on nothing but visual references. With all its faults, inconsistencies, and need for refinement, in comparison this game is amazing. I think this is something that is often overlooking in the grand scheme of things within the context and perception of advancement within the game. Also, as some of you may know, I do rather well for myself in the game it seems, surviving and playing the game my way without the use of larger ships in the game nor Engineered modules. I guess my perspective and outlook seems a little different than those of others I often find around here.

Yes, constructive criticism is a good thing, but I think sometimes the greater context is overlooked.