How could players be encouraged to put themselves into dangerous pvp scenarios, even when they don't have to?

[Riverside]

An entire wing of our squadron was dedicated to helping CMDRs get started in the "baby bubble" (starting area), helping them build ships, etc, with no seduction involved (as in, we'll only help if you join us).

There was also a huge benefit to joining a squadron because you learned who the ganker squadrons were and had backup if you ran into them. Squadrons know the other squadrons on their respective platforms. Ever since I was part of a squadron, if I see certain clan tags I know what I'm in for.

I worked alone for years, using any help I could get from random players I met in the game. One of them formed a small squadron supporting one of the factions I supported & I joined them. In general I derive motivation & inspiration to take on projects & challenges/achievements from people I meet in the game. Sadly the community has largely moved away from enabling that kind of play, most of the big groups started the way I continue to play, one person or a small group figuring things out as they go.

Not sure I could ever really bring myself to join a large group, I've worked with a few though, and against others. One of the rare occasions where the squadron I'm in used a private group was when helping an ally against another ally where the group we opposed had chosen a selfish path rather than one that benefitted both parties and I didn't want to be known to be going against them. We lost out on that occasion anyway

Another time I changed to group was against a group who had a member that was struggling with stress (anecdotally) and I didn't want to be the cause of any more for them thinking I might interdict (I wouldn't anyway (not a guarantee)). imo that player probably should have switched to group or solo themselves if the circumstances were as I interpreted them. I can't control what other players choose to do but I can control how I behave, react & respond.

 

[Robert Maynard]

That's why I think if changes are made to make Open safer, people should be prepared to lose the ability to affect BGS in systems where PMFs are active, while they are in Solo/PG.

Why should PvE players who support their PMF be denied the ability to do so in their preferred game mode? All players enjoy the ability to affect the BGS with no requirement to engage in PvP to do so - regardless of which game mode they play in - and there's no requirement for player groups requesting a PMF to be inserted into the game to engage in PvP either.

Frontier reserve the removal of a player's effect on the galaxy as a form of punishment for those who break the rules, most recently, anecdotally, those shadow-banned for their involvement in the Carrier Slaving scheme.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Why should PvE players who support their PMF be denied the ability to do so in their preferred game mode? All players enjoy the ability to affect the BGS with no requirement to engage in PvP to do so - regardless of which game mode they play in - and there's no requirement for player groups requesting a PMF to be inserted into the game to engage in PvP either.

Because someone feeling entitled to their power fantasy says so.

 

[Dragsham]

Why oh why do we attempt to change the main architecture of elite? This Q at a cmdr well known for anti pvp.
In my opinion the answer is because the game, in its current state. Is broken.
So are you saying we should not change anything at all. Keep the game as is? 3 modes where cmdrs can hide and destroy bgs pp work.... well I agree, they can and do.. because its as is, doesn't mean its right. Does it?
The fact is the games broken, and stoicly advocating no change quoting chaper n verse on the games current broken architecture is dumb.
We are here discussing possibilities. We don't need cmdrs telling us what we already know.
And reinforcing the belief that elite is perfect as is....because its not. Far from it.
We are here in the forum discussing ideas and ways to improve gameplay that suits everyone not just pvpers or any group.
Creating a vibrant lively community that is both safe and fair. Pvp ISNT nessesary or forced. We know!!
I know why l bought elite. And l respect others for why they bought it.
I don't need to be countered at every post by semantics and the current status quo.

o7

 

[Robert Maynard]

In my opinion the answer is because the game, in its current state. Is broken.
So are you saying we should not change anything at all. Keep the game as is? 3 modes where cmdrs can hide and destroy bgs pp work.... well I agree, they can and do.. because its as is, doesn't mean its right. Does it?
The fact is the games broken, and stoicly advocating no change quoting chaper n verse on the games current broken architecture is dumb.

Whether the game is broken, or not, is a matter of opinion, not a matter of fact. It may be broken from the perspective of those who want to force any player who affects the game to be available to be engaged in PvP - from a different perspective it's a game with a shared galaxy affected by PvE actions in any game mode with no requirement to even play among other players, much less engage (or be engaged) in PvP. We all bought the same game on the same terms - that some can't accept the game for what it is is neither the fault of Frontier nor the fault of players who do accept it for what it is.

That said, changes over time in a game are expected and often embraced - it depends which changes and how they affect players. That some players want changes to be implemented that disregard those other players that would be adversely affected has been obvious for years.

We are here discussing possibilities. We don't need cmdrs telling us what we already know.

Indeed we are - noting that we don't all want the same things.

We are here in the forum discussing ideas and ways to improve gameplay that suits everyone not just pvpers or any group.

How would forcing players to play together improve gameplay for everyone? Also, discussing ideas, unless the discussion is expected to be an echo chamber of agreement, will include opposition to specific changes that would adversely affect players who don't share a preference for an optional play-style.

---

At this stage in the game's life, if fundamental change is to be implemented then I'd hope that it would be to duplicate the galaxy and give those who demand that players who affect "their" galaxy can be directly opposed an Open-only game mode to affect it from - leaving the existing tri-modal shared galaxy as it is for those who accept the game design. This wouldn't satisfy those who also demand that all players play together whether they want to or not - however no-one who bought this game did so on the basis of players being forced to play together.

 

[varonica]

How would forcing players to play together improve gameplay for everyone?

That special case of everyone where only people who think the same as they do count as players!

 

[TobiasFuzz]

Looking at the original question of this thread, the answer is obviously "Impossible". Imo, who posted here that there a players who doesn't want to engage with other human players at all, are correct. And what is in this special case, regarding this thread, meant with PvP? Players who did until now not were in PvP (have not the right ship and the experience in PvP combat) have no chance. For example, I managed to prepare as good as possible to escape players who want to gank me. But that alone costs me a huge amount of time (training the sop to drill level) and in game credits (buying mil hull reinforcements, MRP, HRP,...) and did not even start with the engineering grind. I don't consider this all called PvP. As longe as the efforts just to escape PvP are so high, who will take this long road of mostly grind and at least semi-fun activities?

 

[Dragsham]

I like the suggestion of a new galaxy for those who don't want to remain in the tri modal one we currently have.
And if this new galaxy isn't p2p too.
And it's got lethal black holes.
Grappling hooks.
Pvp
A community
Armed escorted cmdrs hauling
Shipping lanes safe from pvp.
High security systems a no go for notorious cmdrs unless they want to die with no rebuy.
And so on...yeah Robert nice suggestion I'm all for it assuming my stufz and account go with me

 

[Snowygerry]

I don't consider this all called PvP. As longe as the efforts just to escape PvP are so high, who will take this long road of mostly grind and at least semi-fun activities?

Seems you're trying escape after they are already in shooting distance.

"Classic evasion technique" is arrive in unscouted system, check history tab to see who's present, check radar to see if any hollow squares manoeuvre to get into your rear,

if so drop out of supercruise, high-wake to previously selected system.

No MRP, HRP or engineers are needed for that, can be done in a standard Adder

 

[TobiasFuzz]

Seems you're trying escape after they are already in shooting distance.

"Classic evasion technique" is arrive in unscouted system, check history tab to see who's present, check radar to see if any hollow squares manoeuvre to get into your rear,

if so drop out of supercruise, high-wake to previously selected system.

No MRP, HRP or engineers are needed for that, can be done in a standard Adder

Yes, of course. But sometimes
1. You get interdicted instantly when dropping out of witch space with no time to do anything else
2. I need to reach the destination in system and highwaking is not the first option

 

[Robert Maynard]

And so on...yeah Robert nice suggestion I'm all for it assuming my stufz and account go with me

Stuffz would go with the player, however exploitation would be trivial if players could move assets between the divergent galaxies so the move would very probably need to be a one time thing.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Why oh why do we attempt to change the main architecture of elite? This Q at a cmdr well known for anti pvp.
In my opinion the answer is because the game, in its current state. Is broken.
So are you saying we should not change anything at all. Keep the game as is? 3 modes where cmdrs can hide and destroy bgs pp work.... well I agree, they can and do.. because its as is, doesn't mean its right. Does it?
The fact is the games broken, and stoicly advocating no change quoting chaper n verse on the games current broken architecture is dumb.
We are here discussing possibilities. We don't need cmdrs telling us what we already know.
And reinforcing the belief that elite is perfect as is....because its not. Far from it.
We are here in the forum discussing ideas and ways to improve gameplay that suits everyone not just pvpers or any group.
Creating a vibrant lively community that is both safe and fair. Pvp ISNT nessesary or forced. We know!!
I know why l bought elite. And l respect others for why they bought it.
I don't need to be countered at every post by semantics and the current status quo.

o7

I had never a problem with others playing solo and affecting the BGS. Nor any of my group much. It's just in your head.

 

[Ettanin]

A separate galaxy in a non peer to peer manner would effectively make this game an MMO. A massive undertaking for Frontier of which i am certain they are neither ready nor willing to commit to.

Also, as the game concentrates around hotspots, consider this:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34RPwDfLpKg


PvP focused games with punishment for defeat are generally not casual friendly. As Elite Dangerous lacks depth in it's gameplay loops and also expects players to cover all gameplay aspects (as required for Engineering) of this game, the novelty of such a separate system would wear off (of course, for fairness reasons, stuph cannot be taken over from the trimodal galaxy, requiring the grind again) and the constant and unavoidable plaguing by griefers and gankers will cull casual and new players, emptying that copy of the universe. This will ultimately lead to the demand to shut the trimodal galaxy down.

No, there are too many inconvenient factors and glaring issues in this game to make it a true MMO. The current implementation, power creep and grinding necessary make the danger of forced pvp totally unbearable for the common player.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The current implementation, power creep and grinding necessary make the danger of forced pvp totally unbearable for the common player.

Not forgetting that the fact that PvP has been optional in all game features (except CQC, of course) from release means that some players will have bought the game with no intention to engage in PvP regardless of any changes.

 

[Misty_Dark]

My squadron leader used external tools like Inara to check logs of people in system, squadron or no.

That idea wouldn't work as others can come in system and affect BGS by simply slaughtering security forces, and if the system is in certain states (War) it actively encourages combat. A squadron needs to be able to fight off invaders.

quite alot of if' and but there... and and relies on that the other player share their information... which noone is required to. noone is even required to answer you. and then what?

 

[Brrokk]

...
2. I need to reach the destination in system and highwaking is not the first option

I'm pretty sure that another player will have a hard time destroying the trade Cutter I sometimes use in Open, but the game lets them force me to redo the flight into the system, again and again, high-waking each time. I would consider that a grind and I never do grind. Why should I let someone else waste my time like that?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

In fact, it's basically the whole thing I said in the OP. You might give it a read.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

In my opinion the answer is because the game, in its current state. Is broken

Not its not, unless you are referring to the state of Odyssey, which FD are working on, and requires no changes to modes to fix.

Maybe you would like to see some changes in how things work, so do i, but it doesn't mean its broken.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

I'm pretty sure that another player will have a hard time destroying the trade Cutter I sometimes use in Open, but the game lets them force me to redo the flight into the system, again and again, high-waking each time. I would consider that a grind and I never do grind. Why should I let someone else waste my time like that?

That's a point and I can not exactly explain why I do things they way I do them.
At first I try to reach my destination. Normally after the 3rd try and still failing (forced to highwake) I stop doing that. When I have my squadronbuddy at hand she tries to lure the gankers away, give me go by TeamSpeak, and I jump in and try to do the run while the gankers chase my teammate. If there is only one ganker, we have one ship build extremely tanky and let us interdict. Then the tanky one occupies the ganker as long as possible while the other one lowwakes and try the run. Sometimes that works, and when not... Change to solo. All this effort for selling some bio waste at a specific station.

 

[Snowygerry]

Yes - it seems you have actually chosen the most difficult role there is to play in ED, smuggling large quantities of goods into a heavily guarded system, in open.

Not sure many people here do that - respect