How do jump range limitations make the game better? Anaconda's unrealistic hull mass.

[mistohise]

Don't worry guys, I got this.

There's a group of fun hating players in this game. Frontier does everything this fun hating group wants. This group likes nothing more than depriving other people of fun. Including limiting FSD range of combat ships.

You think I'm talking rubbish? Wait till this thread reaches page 10

You're entirely right. You can see it by the way in which this thread, which opened with someone saying "please buff other ships jump range" turned into "nerf the Anaconda!!!".

It even spawned its own child thread, where someone said "nerf the Anaconda and the Python". The ing Python. You know, the ship in the game that already had more of a nerf than probably all the other ships put together, and people still moan about it.

 

[Red Anders]

I'm only civilized conversationally when I'm in the presence of civilized people. So you all could take your own advice. I'm not required to be nice to anyone.

Same. Here you go.

Spoiler

Dry your eyes little one.

 

[n13L5]

Easiest way to compare ships is with Coriolis then you can see how things balance out stats-wise. The most important thing to note regarding the Anaconda is its mass reduction doesn't affect the amount of armor it's capable of equipping... in fact, the mass doesn't affect the armor at all.



I think the Fer-de-lance could definitely use a fuel upgrade- perhaps bumped to the next level at least so its overall range isn't as limited but it's jump-range stays the same. For a "medium-class combat ship" it's a bit hampered in this arena. I also agree there should be a tradeoff, and the example you gave is a good one.

I disagree that combat ships must be "balanced" with extremely poor range. There's enough other things they can't do.

And getting around is a basic necessity.

I'm not saying it should match the best jump ranges in the game, like Anaconda, ASP and DBX, but ANY ship larger than an Eagle should have a jump range in the low 30's, when fully fitted for combat. If you fly it with undersized modules and obviously not combat ready, it should get high 30's, so there's a way to get around, that doesn't kill an extra half hour of your very real time for balancing very unreal virtual stuff in a godforsaken computer game.

Why should I need to own 3 FDLs and 3 Vultures, just so I can avoid the tedious time grind of moving them? My precious time which I can never get back...
You know, all ownership is illusory for creatures that live a short 70, 80 years time and are gone. The ONLY precious thing you really have is your time.

Why does it cost half the re-buy, just to transfer them? In the long run, its simply cheaper to buy and fit several of those ships with a can't-be- jump range.
There's something wrong when its more fun to take a than dealing with that hideous jump animation over and over and over...
And you can't walk away, or you'll crash into the next sun on arrival. well done, FD! Its really a game for people with Stockholm syndrome.

 

[Bikky]

Great, so my combat anaconda with it's 23ly jump range because of all the heavy weaponry, and the hull armaments, and the massive shield generator, is now allowed to jump it's exploration distance of 47ly?

Cool, I can explore massively in a fully battle hardened vessel, that people can't out-jump

Oh hang on, fedev have already done your bidding.... take the heavy stuff off your combat ship, and it jumps further.

 

[Pielander]

I disagree that combat ships must be "balanced" with extremely poor range. There's enough other things they can't do.

And getting around is a basic necessity.

I'm not saying it should match the best jump ranges in the game, like Anaconda, ASP and DBX, but ANY ship larger than an Eagle should have a jump range in the low 30's, when fully fitted for combat. If you fly it with undersized modules and obviously not combat ready, it should get high 30's, so there's a way to get around, that doesn't kill an extra half hour of your very real time for balancing very unreal virtual stuff in a godforsaken computer game.

Why should I need to own 3 FDLs and 3 Vultures, just so I can avoid the tedious time grind of moving them? My precious time which I can never get back...
You know, all ownership is illusory for creatures that live a short 70, 80 years time and are gone. The ONLY precious thing you really have is your time.

Why does it cost half the re-buy, just to transfer them? In the long run, its simply cheaper to buy and fit several of those ships with a can't-be- jump range.
There's something wrong when its more fun to take a than dealing with that hideous jump animation over and over and over...
And you can't walk away, or you'll crash into the next sun on arrival. well done, FD! Its really a game for people with Stockholm syndrome.

+1 rep for this! You've summed up exactly what's wrong with limited jump range.

Short jump ranges do absolutely nothing but add more grind to an already grindy game. It would make sense if the Corvette had a more limited cargo capacity (using limited compartments) or a higher price tag, but making it more time-consuming to move it to where people want to use it just makes no sense, and does nothing to add balance to the game.

 

[Brrokk]

Great, so my combat anaconda with it's 23ly jump range because of all the heavy weaponry, and the hull armaments, and the massive shield generator, is now allowed to jump it's exploration distance of 47ly?

Cool, I can explore massively in a fully battle hardened vessel, that people can't out-jump

Oh hang on, fedev have already done your bidding.... take the heavy stuff off your combat ship, and it jumps further.

This. If jump range is important to you, think about it during outfitting. Fit less heavy stuff.

 

[n13L5]

So, trying to make a TLDR; version of these 14 pages:
- the anaconda this
- the anaconda that
- the anaconda is
- the anaconda can
- the anaconda has
- and this is why I want a buff in my corvette.

I think we reached a point where we need a new thread.

If you succeeded at summarizing his intent for this Thread, and owning all those ships, I can at least half agree with him.

Yes, give the Corvette a buff - especially the stinking jump range should be in the low 30's at least - combat fitted.
No, leave the Anaconda alone, it is what it is, its very useful and people love it. Sandro was right to decide to leave it be.

This isn't a game about balance - ships are a ladder climbed with credit. More Credits = better ship (mostly). That's what Elite has been since the 80's.

This is NOT one of my problems with the game.

I find it a much greater problem for example, that you need around 90 materials total to roll a single grade 5 engineering anything. For a ship that has 20 modules to engineer (and larger combat ships have more), that means you'll be endlessly hunting for stuff. And out of the 1,840 materials for the ship, 900 would be rare and very rare for the grade 5. And you can't call it "gud enuff" at 80% g5, cause if its not "completed", you can't put or change any experimental effect.

 

[Numenor1379]

This. If jump range is important to you, think about it during outfitting. Fit less heavy stuff.

Great, so my combat anaconda with it's 23ly jump range because of all the heavy weaponry, and the hull armaments, and the massive shield generator, is now allowed to jump it's exploration distance of 47ly?

Cool, I can explore massively in a fully battle hardened vessel, that people can't out-jump

Oh hang on, fedev have already done your bidding.... take the heavy stuff off your combat ship, and it jumps further.

This is not what is being talked about at all, good job not reading guys. The Anaconda would stay exactly as it is, no nerfs or buffs as FDev have already made clear they will never touch it.

The proposed Engineer would allow Hull Mass modifications to happen (ie: the big balance patch which really needs to happen) that would alter the flight characteristics of any ship. The Anaconda would get around this by having the G5 Lightweight mod already equiped on purchase.

One other comment on the "strip out your weapons" statement... try that with a Corvette, lightweight everything, run minimal modules and at best you'll have a 35ly range in a ship that would be completely useless. It is absolutely idiotic how low the range on the combat ships are. The above proposal would provide a way for players to change this if they wished.

 

[ilo]

If you succeeded at summarizing his intent for this Thread, and owning all those ships, I can at least half agree with him.

Yes, give the Corvette a buff - especially the stinking jump range should be in the low 30's at least - combat fitted.
No, leave the Anaconda alone, it is what it is, its very useful and people love it. Sandro was right to decide to leave it be.

This isn't a game about balance - ships are a ladder climbed with credit. More Credits = better ship (mostly). That's what Elite has been since the 80's.

This is NOT one of my problems with the game.

I find it a much greater problem for example, that you need around 90 materials total to roll a single grade 5 engineering anything. For a ship that has 20 modules to engineer (and larger combat ships have more), that means you'll be endlessly hunting for stuff. And out of the 1,840 materials for the ship, 900 would be rare and very rare for the grade 5. And you can't call it "gud enuff" at 80% g5, cause if its not "completed", you can't put or change any experimental effect.

Try this with FSD premium boost, you will get >42Ly of jump and almost 10% of the materials required for the engineers.
https://coriolis.io/outfit/federal_...2nbsg=.Aw18ZlA=..EweloBhAOEoUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=

 

[Numenor1379]

Try this with FSD premium boost, you will get >42Ly of jump and almost 10% of the materials required for the engineers.
https://coriolis.io/outfit/federal_...2nbsg=.Aw18ZlA=..EweloBhAOEoUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=

Aside from a racing Corvette, what good is that build? It can't explore, can't trade, and can't fight.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Frontier will not change Anaconda, they have already stated this. Also don't be flippant if you expect a logical, reasoned debate. Frontier has recently introduced two new combat ships, Type-10 and Cheiftain. Both exceed 20LY combat fit, and the universe has not imploded, the sky has not fallen.

The stupidity around the jump range for FDL and Corvette is illogical and pretty clearly emotional at this point. Two new ships, respectable (but not excessive) jump range. The sky didn't fall. Nor would it, if Corvette and FDL were lifted in range to align better.

The OP wants Anaconda brought in line with other combat ships, which isn't going to happen. A more constructive approach is to bring the two outliers, Corvette and FDL back into sane ranges. Just as has been done for Type-9, Orca, Beluga and really everything else that's had, traditionally, poor jump range.

The rest of your comment is pretty much flippant offhand commentary which doesn't really serve any constructive purpose.

But the T10 and the Chieftain are not nearly as good as the FDL and the Corvette respectively.

 

[NW3]

I also still like MadDogMurdock's "tethered jumps" solution to the bubble range problem (which is, lest we forget, what the first line of the OP is talking about). But since he and I seem to be the only ones talking about it, I guess it's doomed. To be fair, it would probably require a lot more coding on FD's part since it would effectively be a new travel mechanic and would need to tie into everything including galmap navigation. An Engineer who just tweaks the stats that the game is already using definitely seems like the least problematic solution anyone's come up with.

Hmmm... I hunted around for "tethered jumps" and found the post you referenced...

What if the FSD had different ranges based on mode?

Tethered jumps would be between systems with Nav Beacons - the hyperspace route is well understood and the FSD can optimize the jump allowing extra range - say 50% more than now.

I'd be fine with something like that, even if, as an explorer, it wouldn't be all that useful to me. I'd suggest simplifying the concept: You could jump twice as far, but only to a system that has a nav beacon.

Unfortunately, I don't think the idea will appeal to FD, since they really seem to like the current travel mechanic, even though many of the players are begging for more jump range.

 

[NW3]

I kind of thought that the new engineers increased the jump range of our ships even further than the old ones.

Is this not the case ?

Yes, it's true. For my AspX, the increase was an additional 5%. That won't make much difference, unless you are traveling a long​ way.

 

[Blackcompany]

Combat centric game gas a policy of "the better the tools you use, the more loading screens you have to watch each session."

No wonder player numbers sucked even following a major update. It's like they're TRYING to kill interest in this game for everyone outside if a niche too small to support this dumpster fire of non-interactive wait walling.

 

[Mole HD]

This is better than Game of Thrones.... [haha]

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I disagree that combat ships must be "balanced" with extremely poor range. There's enough other things they can't do.

And getting around is a basic necessity.

I'm not saying it should match the best jump ranges in the game, like Anaconda, ASP and DBX, but ANY ship larger than an Eagle should have a jump range in the low 30's, when fully fitted for combat. If you fly it with undersized modules and obviously not combat ready, it should get high 30's, so there's a way to get around, that doesn't kill an extra half hour of your very real time for balancing very unreal virtual stuff in a godforsaken computer game.

Why should I need to own 3 FDLs and 3 Vultures, just so I can avoid the tedious time grind of moving them? My precious time which I can never get back...
You know, all ownership is illusory for creatures that live a short 70, 80 years time and are gone. The ONLY precious thing you really have is your time.

Why does it cost half the re-buy, just to transfer them? In the long run, its simply cheaper to buy and fit several of those ships with a can't-be- jump range.
There's something wrong when its more fun to take a than dealing with that hideous jump animation over and over and over...
And you can't walk away, or you'll crash into the next sun on arrival. well done, FD! Its really a game for people with Stockholm syndrome.

For comparison, pre-engineers era the best jump ranges were at the high 30's and the very best anybody could achieve was 41 Ly in a completely nude Anaconda.

Get over this already, I own combat focused ships with less than 20 Ly and you don't see me ranting about a buff, heck, when I started in my sidey it was a miracle it got beyond 15 Ly.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Aside from a racing Corvette, what good is that build? It can't explore, can't trade, and can't fight.

That's the point, if you truly want more jump range you have to own it.

 

[optiplex]

Don't worry guys, I got this.

There's a group of fun hating players in this game. Frontier does everything this fun hating group wants. This group likes nothing more than depriving other people of fun. Including limiting FSD range of combat ships.

You think I'm talking rubbish? Wait till this thread reaches page 10

You would be talking about Captain Nerf and the Nerfets

 

[Artistik]

It seems to me like the chief argument here is "the Anaconda is broken, so you should break MY ship too." Not that I don't see the original point, and I read the whole thread, so I've seen the point illustrated many, many times, but I sorta agree that boosting combat ships would only break that class just as the Anaconda is broken in your eyes. As a guy who likes to just explore and catalog planets, I'm okay with my ship not being a massive gun platform. And it seems that the reason behind the chief complaint is the OP wants to patrol the farthest reaches of the galaxy.

Patrol them... for what? From what I understand, there isn't much out there that needs combating, so the only ones that would be combated are players who are out to explore and catalog. In other words, it seems to me like the only reason the player needs to travel that far is to attack other players who have ships of lesser durability and armament. I could very well be wrong. But, as someone who has been frequently blasted by role-playing pirates, I'd say no thanks, we'll keep to the fringes, safe from your aggression, and you keep to your stomping grounds, leashed by your low jump range.

From the arguments presented here, I'd say the Anaconda does seem a little over powered, and I guess they aren't going to fix that, but if they "break" combat ships to match it, now there are more problems, not fewer. Imagine; they bump up your ranges to the 20-30 range. Now, you can catch more explorer builds that haven't been engineered to within an inch of their lives, and beat them up, so the Explorers complain that combat ships are "broken," and they give into that concern, and boost explorer builds. Eventually, every group will complain about the other getting "broken," and once every class is broken to match the Anaconda, the Conda crowd will lose it's mind because boosting everyone else except them is the same as nerfing them.

I am far too inexperienced in this game to present arguments like the original poster and the others who have backed their positions with data, but as the layman, complaining about a broken ship and proposing to solve it by breaking something else is not logical.

 

[RagingxPenguin]

People calling for FDLs/Vettes that jump 35+ light years... Say what?

Now that's a good one....