How FD can fend off a hypothetical goon takeover (or even a real one)

[Seonid]

I think it fair to say that the Goon menace is unlikely, which must annoy the hell out of them and yet gives me a warm tingly feeling inside!

I wonder what the percentage of threads like these are created by posters with EVE avatars but not SA accounts...

 

[halo jones 101]

That won't stop people trying to solve problems that don't even exist with solutions that are not needed.

Indeed

 

[Cody]

That won't stop people trying to solve problems that don't even exist with solutions that are not needed.

<chuckles>

 

[Bikky]

400 billion star systems..... and you think the same player could find you more than once????????

there aren't enough people on the planet to have 1 griefer in every system.

As for PVP, I've been on since Premium Beta. I've been gooned twice in beta by players..... this is excluding Warzones, where it's free for all (well free for anything in red) and yes players will join together in those instances... just as the NPC's do. once I was interdicted by a player, who asked me if I fancied a fight to try out his asp.... 50% hull left and the fight broke off.... No deaths today.

Then there's piracy, if you don't hand over your goods and can't run then he's free to shoot you, not much of a pirate otherwise. Then if you have a wanted status on your head... look out because I'll be interdicting you and deploying weapons to claim that cash.

As it currently stands I've killed 20odd players, in beta, warzones and defending myself. I've killed several hundred NPC's. In Gamma I'm only Novice, but have killed no players as I've not seen any wanted ones yet. and the two warzones I was in didn't have any on the oppo team.

I Think griefing in ED might be unfounded, and it boils down to someone got killed by another player and didn't like it.

 

[AJ_Impy]

I find this thread amusing, but pointless. Very different games.

Besides which, we're already here.

 

[Stench]

400 billion star systems..... and you think the same player could find you more than once????????.

There will likely always be a core area. For example where players congregate to take advantage of events or other yet-to-be implemented features. This outlook is naive at best, without disrespect to you. And in of itself, make solo play entirely redundant were it panning out like you suggest..

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A large coordinated group could certainly cause disruption and annoyance, but most of the major things you could do in EVE are completely undermined by solo and private group switching.

I think that EVE paranoia has a detrimental effect on this game, so prefer not to worry about imagined problems. And like it or not, goons are people too! They can play ED and will.

You underestimate people.

I've played online games all my adult life (35 now) and in any persistent world, this problem exists. ANY.


Why would Elite be any different?

Sure you can swap into Solo mode, but what if you're doing something with friends? Or partaking in an event? At best your play is disrupted while you switch modes. At worst, the controlling group dominate the event.

 

[xslam]

The "Goons" or "Goon Squad" have been a presence in many MMOs

You can deal with goons more easily. As you know in EVE Online they will not attack you if you pay them. Here they live in same manner. Just pay them and fly safe.

 

[Stench]

You can deal with goons more easily. As you know in EVE Online they will not attack you if you pay them. Here they live in same manner. Just pay them and fly safe.

So give in to extortion. Pay others (in game) to be able to play your game. Riiiiiiight.
You realise that's how they want it to work right? You are enabling it.

 

[KING5TON]

I hope every goon member buys the game and tries it.
More sales = the expansions are more likely to appear.

 

[bassman]

I'm not convinced a serious enough problem exists in theory or practice to start tinkering with core game mechanics.

 

[xslam]

So give in to extortion. Pay others (in game) to be able to play your game. Riiiiiiight.
You realise that's how they want it to work right? You are enabling it.

Exactly.
As EVE online is zero sum game, a player can force another player or to lose part of gameplay or made player to work for him, if he cannot withstand in the direct fight. "Master" can use choke points and the "sovereignity" to deny players from visiting many ingame areas. He use combat power and numbers in his gang to be able to deny.

You may notice that many players who wants the solo mode prohibition also wants ability to transfer money between players.

 

[Jonny Quest]

I strongly suspect that Lave blocade *is* goons due to heavy use of a borderline exploit-y tactics.
And none of the things you proposed will stop them - as none of things you mentioned stop anyone from getting a starting preorder ship, kiting it with dumbfires, screw around and wipe save if dead due to ramming/ out of ammo.

That's why they target Lave, it is close to starting system in case they have to clean save.

No amount of bounties will stop that behaviour, no amount of blocking players (after clean save they get new cmdr name). And with the way instancing now works (sometimes you fly as a team,sometimes not) it is also very hard to counteract - Cmdrs can't just "gang up" and combat them.

 

[CmdrBream]

Try as I might, I now can't shake the imagine of being hounded out of a system by the shade of Harry Secombe.

 

[BBcokeley]

The "Goons" or "Goon Squad" have been a presence in many MMOs, and the current explosion of threads about griefing makes me suspect they might be around here too. Goons typically look to control the playing field if they can, and sometimes extort or kill other players. In Eve Online they have usually controlled much of the areas of space that aren't policed, and kill other players who enter.

This could happen in this game too. We could have swarms of players blocking off certain systems (e.g. those with rare goods, like Lave) from other players; either killing them outright if they enter or extorting them for cargo. A more ambitious goal might be to take control of all of Alliance or even more, shutting those worlds off from non-members. And when I say take control, I don't mean that in the way the game is supposed to work: gaining influence with systems and so forth, but on top of that, by locking out other players. This is all hypothetical, as I said. I don't know what they're up to.

To protect against such a scenario, FD could:

1. Hand out a bounty penalty for killing a clean CMDR of 100.000 cr. (The Pilots Federation protect their own.)
2. Not let bounties be cleared by death. (Are they now? I'm unsure.)
3. Not let bounties be cleared by paying money at a station.
4. Let players work to clear their bounties by killing wanted NPCs or players in the same system. The bounty awarded from the kill is subtracted from the player's penalty bounty.
5. Set a maximum amount of 10.000 cr to be subtracted from the penalty per kill, to prevent players working together from easily clearing bounties by killing each other.
6. Make security forces actively hunt commanders that are wanted in the system: chase, interdict and try to kill.
7. For a bounty <100k, they send a Sidewinder; for 100k-199k, an Eagle; 200k-299k, a Viper; etc. Quality of interdiction also goes up.
8. No police forces in anarchy systems.

In this manner, PVP would be free in anarchies, and still possible in friendlier space, although you might make yourself unwelcome; players would help police the systems, and working off your bounties might be more appropriate than "bribing" a station to forget. (And there would be no "carebear" space for goons to cry about.)

SOLO
(repped cause you went in full detail)

 

[Privata]

I hope they play elite I want someone to fight other than the AI , who is braindead ATM

 

[Robert Maynard]

And none of the things you proposed will stop them - as none of things you mentioned stop anyone from getting a starting preorder ship, kiting it with dumbfires, screw around and wipe save if dead due to ramming/ out of ammo.

.... a minimum time between commander wipes would help. As would introducing a delay (proportional to debt / bounty) between wipe request and actual wipe for commanders in debt or with bounties outstanding (as discussed in a DDF thread).

 

[Stench]

Exactly.
As EVE online is zero sum game, a player can force another player or to lose part of gameplay or made player to work for him, if he cannot withstand in the direct fight. "Master" can use choke points and the "sovereignity" to deny players from visiting many ingame areas. He use combat power and numbers in his gang to be able to deny.

You may notice that many players who wants the solo mode prohibition also wants ability to transfer money between players.

Ok I am not sure if we're agreeing or disagreeing here.

There is NO WAY players should be allowed to control a game. None. Either by balancing systems of play or by making attempts to control past a certain level exceptionally difficult so as not to eliminate player faction vs player faction completely - that is a part of any MMO.

However, paying PLAYERS to play freely? Either in cargo or in-game funds (if it is ever possible?) NO. Big. Fat. No.

 

[Endziel]

I strongly suspect that Lave blocade *is* goons due to heavy use of a borderline exploit-y tactics.
And none of the things you proposed will stop them - as none of things you mentioned stop anyone from getting a starting preorder ship, kiting it with dumbfires, screw around and wipe save if dead due to ramming/ out of ammo.

That's why they target Lave, it is close to starting system in case they have to clean save.

No amount of bounties will stop that behaviour, no amount of blocking players (after clean save they get new cmdr name). And with the way instancing now works (sometimes you fly as a team,sometimes not) it is also very hard to counteract - Cmdrs can't just "gang up" and combat them.

There is no blockade in Lave. I've been there several times over the past few days, and no one has interdicted me, don't see any suspicious stuff going on at station or outposts. Your delusions are amusing though.

 

[Titus Balls]

People said when we started - despite not having any link to the Eve TEST except we also formed on Reddit - that we would destroy and ruin this game.

Despite our best efforts* this hasn't happened and quite frankly there really isn't any way to. Even with Wings - being limited to 4 players per wing, and 32 per instance *at best* - I don't really see a way.

The only effect they could have is to try crash or boost a system and possibly have an effect on the surrounding area - but others have already been doing that without any goon influence (but then that's kind of the point of the game).



* No effort at all

 

[Stench]

I strongly suspect that Lave blocade *is* goons due to heavy use of a borderline exploit-y tactics.
And none of the things you proposed will stop them - as none of things you mentioned stop anyone from getting a starting preorder ship, kiting it with dumbfires, screw around and wipe save if dead due to ramming/ out of ammo.

That's why they target Lave, it is close to starting system in case they have to clean save.

No amount of bounties will stop that behaviour, no amount of blocking players (after clean save they get new cmdr name). And with the way instancing now works (sometimes you fly as a team,sometimes not) it is also very hard to counteract - Cmdrs can't just "gang up" and combat them.

Exactly - this is exactly how it starts. Informal alliances between players with the same intention. Then they get organised. Then it becomes a substantial problem for other players.

There is more wobble room in ED because of the size of the game area, but there is STILL a starter area to be targeted.

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SOLO
(repped cause you went in full detail)

And what about those of us who want to play openly, with interaction with players, but not subject to the whims of others (within established levels such as exposure to piracy)?