Powerplay How I would like for Powerplay to be.

[Bard Voronwe]

Honestly it's really hard to find some common ground concerning Powerplay, mostly because there's very few people that studied (and understand consequentially) the general mechanics, these people are usually the different Powers' leaderships because, trust me, it takes years to start thinking about Powerplay tactics in a decent way (they're everything but intuitive).

On the other hand we've got another important factor, which is player engagement, which is currently very difficult considering that you must join an organised community and basically follow leaderships' orders to do something that matters.

Some things I am quite sure we all can agree on:

• powerplay modules available to tech brokers
• no more overheads
• reduce bgs and powerplay interactions
• different ways to gain merits, possibly dedicated missions

Then there's all the other and more technical stuff: triggers, balancement, advanced tactics etc. In this case everybody has their opinions, but some singular idea can be difficult to balance with the whole game mechanic, it's not easy at all. But some ideas like making only PvP to be considered are very exploitable considering how Elite Dangerous works (again: the fighters in CZs exploit is a perfect example), we need something unique but in the same time with many elements familiar to the great majority of players to make Powerplay more direct and decentralized. You don't know how many players I crossed who were harming my Power without even realising it. It's a terrible flaw in the main design.

 

[Northpin]

So why can't we all just focus on that. Improving PP. Cos it's crap atm.

Most of the ideas steam from "we are being 5c-ed from Solo/PG so we need to get rid of PG and Solo"

So all the PP improving ideas rely on Open Only stuff.
In a game that is simply not designed around Open Only. And not only that, not even designed with PVP in mind.

So you admit you don't care about Powerplay nor understand its mechanics and you are just here to spam. Cool to know. Now that you told what you have to tell, can we go back in topic?

No, i care about PP - not as much as i care about other aspects, but i still care.
Granted i'm not be the expert you are in PP, but i understand its mechanics more than what it needs to get a PP module with minimal effort and no wasted time.

On the other hand, you dont seem to grasp a lot of things, generally speaking, about Elite and multiplayer gaming and keep pushing things like open only and block working only for chat and so on...

Come with proposals that:

• will not remove PVE-ers from PP,
• do not make their contribution insignificant,
• do not make them shooting targets for murder-boards,
• do not force anyone to play with people they dont like playing with.

As a general reminder, ED is a sandbox with no endgame and PVP is pure optional (multiplayer does not mean PVP)

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Yup, I will ignore your assumptions I didn't propose anything different. Try read the first post thoroughly first. There's a great difference in game mechanics, I honestly do not want to talk about open play, and it's not the first time I said that. If you really would understand general mechanics with Powerplay you at least would notice how systems going turmoil singularly would be enough to make 5C something from the past (5C actions are based basically on the current overhead driven mechanic). You are still just talking about open Vs pvt/solo. There's other threads for that, feel free to tell you opinion about that in there.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Honestly it's really hard to find some common ground concerning Powerplay, mostly because there's very few people that studied (and understand consequentially) the general mechanics, these people are usually the different Powers' leaderships because, trust me, it takes years to start thinking about Powerplay tactics in a decent way (they're everything but intuitive).

The search for common ground is hampered by the apparent desire of some players to have an existing pan-modal game feature PvP-gated to Open - in a game where no main game feature is restricted to a single game mode and where other players (and therefore PvP) are an optional extra.

Some things I am quite sure we all can agree on:

• powerplay modules available to tech brokers
• no more overheads
• reduce bgs and powerplay interactions
• different ways to gain merits, possibly dedicated missions

In and of themselves, this list of proposals seems to be non-contentious and would likely be supported by players on both "sides" of the PvP/PvE debate.

But some ideas like making only PvP to be considered are very exploitable considering how Elite Dangerous works (again: the fighters in CZs exploit is a perfect example), we need something unique but in the same time with many elements familiar to the great majority of players to make Powerplay more direct and decentralized.

It is also easier for players to collude with no conflict than to earn contested rewards for engaging in PvP.

I honestly do not want to talk about open play, and it's not the first time I said that.

You are still just talking about open Vs pvt/solo. There's other threads for that, feel free to tell you opinion about that in there.

.... yet Section 4 of the OP seeks to have the feature made Open only and Section 3 seeks to let an Open only feature significantly affect how players affect the BGS in systems where a Power is present.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

The search for common ground is hampered by the apparent desire of some players to have an existing pan-modal game feature PvP-gated to Open - in a game where no main game feature is restricted to a single game mode and where other players (and therefore PvP) are an optional extra.

In and of themselves, this list of proposals seems to be non-contentious and would likely be supported by players on both "sides" of the PvP/PvE debate.

It is also easier for players to collude with no conflict than to earn contested rewards for engaging in PvP.


.... yet Section 4 of the OP seeks to have the feature made Open only and Section 3 seeks to let an Open only feature significantly affect how players affect the BGS in systems where a Power is present.

Yup, many text lines and you are still trying to focus the discussion over open Vs pvt/solo, basically because that's your goal: to flood any thread and make a mess out of it. Again: we all know your opinion about that, noted, let's talk about Powerplay please.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yup, many text lines and you are still trying to focus the discussion over open Vs pvt/solo, basically because that's your goal: to flood any thread and make a mess out of it. Again: we all know your opinion about that, noted, let's talk about Powerplay please.

The OP introduced it - so presumably it will be discussed, despite attempts to exclude it from the discussion.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

The OP introduced it - so presumably it will be discussed, despite attempts to exclude it from the discussion.

The OP introduced many other things which are being ignored too. We have a couple of users still trying to divert the discussion on that while we are trying to talk about something else: isn't this flooding a thread about advanced powerplay mechanics? As I said before: we all know you don't like anything open only related, that's not new and there is no need to repeat it to suffocate a discussion. Can we go back to game mechanics now? How Powerplay missions should be if only we had them, how much upkeeps should be increased, if triggers should be modified considering that BGS would not affect them to keep the game balanced etc? I think these things might be for the developer eventually reading this looking for competent feedback about Powerplay. Please don't flood my thread. You've got plenty of dedicated threads to do so.

 

[A C Ender]

The OP introduced it - so presumably it will be discussed, despite attempts to exclude it from the discussion.

The OP suggested making PP optional for anyone not interested in themselves engaging with macro-politics of the Galaxy. If you're just interested BGS, the proposal does not affect you in any major way. The open suggestion is -only- for those who opt into powerplay. Everyone else is by the suggestion free to continue in whatever mode they want.

The only possible arguments against that aspect of the proposal is for people who (have been) doing PP through Solo/PG. However, only one single post in the thread so far bring that up. All the other posts are regular open-only complaints, ignoring that PP in itself would be completely optional.

Don't think that PP would be optional if it reduced BGS inf? Great, then discuss the PP effect (or lack there of) on BGS instead!


TLR; There are only one legitimate objections to an opt-in powerplay being limited to open: Those who historically do PP in solo/PG. If you really want to keep grinding the anti-open-only agenda, at least focus on the topic at hand (power play).

 

[Robert Maynard]

The OP introduced many other things which are being ignored too. We have a couple of users still trying to divert the discussion on that while we are trying to talk about something else: isn't this flooding a thread about advanced powerplay mechanics?

If Powerplay is so advanced, why can players pledge immediately after leaving the starter systems?

As I said before: we all know you don't like anything open only related, that's not new and there is no need to repeat it to suffocate a discussion.

Just as there are those who seek to stifle opposition to Open only proposals....

Can we go back to game mechanics now?

Delighted to - on the understanding that improvements to game mechanics would be for the benefit of players in all game modes.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The OP suggested making PP optional for anyone not interested in themselves engaging with macro-politics of the Galaxy. If you're just interested BGS, the proposal does not affect you in any major way. The open suggestion is -only- for those who opt into powerplay. Everyone else is by the suggestion free to continue in whatever mode they want.

The proposal to penalise player BGS actions by 50% and 75% depending on the SuperPower affiliation of the Faction in relation to the Power in the system affects the BGS, quite significantly.

The only possible arguments against that aspect of the proposal is for people who (have been) doing PP through Solo/PG. However, only one single post in the thread so far bring that up. All the other posts are regular open-only complaints, ignoring that PP in itself would be completely optional.

The only possible arguments in the opinion of some, certainly. Not all players share that opinion. The fact that the OP contains the usual Open only proposal leads to the regular Open only complaints. Powerplay is already completely optional, just as PvP is completely optional within Powerplay as implemented.

Don't think that PP would be optional if it reduced BGS inf? Great, then discuss the PP effect (or lack there of) on BGS instead!

See above.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

If Powerplay is so advanced, why can players pledge immediately after leaving the starter systems?

Just as there are those who seek to stifle opposition to Open only proposals....

Delighted to - on the understanding that improvements to game mechanics would be for the benefit of players in all game modes.

Again: not the only part of the discussion. And actually you have to improve comprehension: talking about advanced powerplay mechanics doesn't mean powerplay itself is somehow advanced, this is something you brought yourself. Honestly it would be clear for you if only you knew (or was interested in) what we are talking about. But still you are just flooding, and please, again, this thread doesn't need this. Thank you.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

PS well you think that Powerplay should have no effects on influence? Minor effects? We can talk about that for example (finally! Game mechanics!)

 

[Bard Voronwe]

May I ask you something? Do you think Powerplay has any effect over influence right now?

 

[Robert Maynard]

PS well you think that Powerplay should have no effects on influence? Minor effects? We can talk about that for example (finally! Game mechanics!)

In a hypothetical situation where Powerplay were made Open only then, in my opinion, Powerplay should not affect players who cannot affect the game feature when playing in their preferred game mode, i.e. it should be completely disconnected from the BGS.

 

[Robert Maynard]

May I ask you something? Do you think Powerplay has any effect over influence right now?

Having engaged in discussion with one player who noted that some Powerplayers use the BGS to make Powerplay easier in some situations, so some of those engaged in Powerplay also engage in the BGS as a part of how they engage in Powerplay.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

In a hypothetical situation where Powerplay were made Open only then, in my opinion, Powerplay should not affect players who cannot affect the game feature when playing in their preferred game mode, i.e. it should be completely disconnected from the BGS.

Fair enough. You talk about security levels, effects over commodities, black markets, etc?

Having engaged in discussion with some players who engage in Powerplay it seems that the BGS can be used to make Powerplay easier in some situations, so some of those engaged in Powerplay also engage in the BGS as a part of how they engage in Powerplay.

Another comprehension problem: that's BGS having an effect over Powerplay, I'm talking about the opposite. Do you think Powerplay has any effect over influence right now?
EDIT
And if you had read the first post you'd already know that part of the proposal is making BGS non influent over Powerplay, so Powerplayers would have no interests in BGS anymore.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Fair enough. You talk about security levels, effects over commodities, black markets, etc?

I was referring to the proposal in the OP to affect the influence of player actions dependent on Faction Superpower affiliation in relation to the Power's Superpower affiliation - but I'd agree that Powerplay should have no effect on the BGS in terms of security levels, effects over commodities, black markets, etc..

Another comprehension problem: that's BGS having an effect over Powerplay, I'm talking about the opposite. Do you think Powerplay has any effect over influence right now?

Some Power bonuses offer significant increases in the BGS effect of particular actions.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

I was referring to the proposal in the OP to affect the influence of player actions dependent on Faction Superpower affiliation in relation to the Power's Superpower affiliation - but I'd agree that Powerplay should have no effect on the BGS in terms of security levels, effects over commodities, black markets, etc..

Some Power bonuses offer significant increases in the BGS effect of particular actions.

Good. So, basically Powerplay affects bgs already in the very same way I explained it would in my proposal.

You know what the real difference is? Right now a pmf, especially one closer to HQs, has no mathematical way to got free of that Power, and even if it's far away there's no way for them to do the same if the system is actually fortified.

So you are basically afraid of something that right now is even worse for minor factions.

Can we say you are making it a problem out of it just for a matter of principle because of the open thing? Without actually knowing that with the mechanics I explained factions would have at least an opportunity to fight to gain the Power of their choice? Basically you are flooding again. Anyway, thanks for your contribution, I think that it's a shame it would not be a way to make the galaxy a little bit more different. Can we agree on the fact we disagree?

 

[A C Ender]

The only possible arguments in the opinion of some, certainly. Not all players share that opinion. The fact that the OP contains the usual Open only proposal leads to the regular Open only complaints. Powerplay is already completely optional, just as PvP is completely optional within Powerplay as implemented.

If modules are disconnected from PP, the only reason to pledge is if you want to engage with power play. If you don't want to engage in power play, you are not affected by any change which make a power-play pledge into an open pledge. Thus, the only legitimate reason to be against power play being open only is if you are engaged in power play, but from solo/pg, which is what I said would be the only legitimate argument against making PP open only. If you don't want to engage in PP, you have no reason to pledge at all, and can play whatever mode you want.

And if you had read the first post you'd already know that part of the proposal is making BGS non influent over Powerplay, so Powerplayers would have no interests in BGS anymore.

-Unless- someone who do PP also choose to play the BGS game. I think you meant that the BGS game would have no purpose for the Powerplay with the proposal.

 

[A C Ender]

I think the most interesting part of the proposal is the individual turmoil of systems. Being able to tailor what the power want to do, and lose (or keep) bad systems depending on the effort put in for that specific system is a lot more meaningful than the current implementation.

PP modules being given to tech-brokers should be a given regardless of implementation of any other PP changes...