Powerplay How is Powerplay not open only yet?

Or, just putting this out there, maybe they know that most people don't do PvP and introducing OOPP will negatively affect the majority of players while benefiting a vanishingly small minority.
Do you mean the majority of people playing PP with any regularity? Because the majority of players don't do that, so would be unaffected by OOPP. A more balanced point to make would be that it would only benefit the (relatively) small number of players involved, and not even all of them, if we're to believe the naysayers on the forum. Of course that disregards potential interest. And the dev time to implement OOPP and a couple of accompanying measures would seem low.

For FDev it's a question of "what's the cost/benefit and what capacity do we have to spare". FDev may even decide that a bigger investment for a bigger payoff in engagement is a better option. But it would be nice if they didn't leave the existing PP communities out of considerations, probably about half of which groups spend all their time PPing in open (and for the rest it's a mixed bag) and enjoy encountering opposing players, for more reasons than simple pew-pew.
 
Vanishing minority indeed, but it wasn't always that way... the PvP community was thriving in the first couple of years in the Lave cluster, but sadly the design direction of the game has pretty much decimated that promising early side of ED and most of those players quit a long time ago.

As someone who has been playing ED since the start, I've pretty much given up on the game providing a satisfying PvP experience, I know Fdev have never or will ever have it on their priority list despite it being an absolutely huge area of potential growth for the game. Remember it's only a small subset of the overall community because of how the game has developed... not because there is no demand for it (there are literally thousands upon thousands of PvPers who have given up on the game and quit for good because of the poor developer support for the playstyle).

But it doesn't matter, I've been here before. I'm not going to get drawn into a never-ending debate with PvP haters.. It's a waste of everyone's time. Every argument for and against OO PP has been stated numerous times. I'm just going to wait for a similar game that supports PvP properly now.
For some PP even in it's half baked, foot in too many camps form is still worthwhile. I think it's an individual choice and there is, as you suggest, a lack of alternative games to get the same experience.
 
It's an interesting thread, and reveals some of the hopes, fears and concerns involved around OOPP.

What if for a moment we accept that FDev will "never do open only anything" (plausible). And that really the game is a multiplayer capable game, rather than true MMO; even when everyone is in open it can be frustrating (<ahem> instancing). An alternative has been discussed repeatedly, of harder NPCs replacing the threat of players in closed modes to create a more level playing field across modes. To me, this almost feels the wrong way around, NPCs are commonplace, players are rare, partly due to instancing.

So here's another idea - players replace NPCs, when players are present. This requires that there exist some (opt-in*) NPCs that present an obstruction equivalent to the average player, in terms of being able to successfully interdict, to hold a player in instance, and to require a player in an engineered ship to actively avoid destruction, even at times in no-fire zones. These comprise the real endgame(-ish) PP opposition, with players standing in where available. Harder, not more, NPCs - otherwise they become merit farms, or just bothersome. So:

1. Default threat (and presence at all) of certain new, specialist PP NPCs is progressively increased to average-player-level hazard with increasing PP rating, when a player reaches a rating above 3, *so it remains opt-in, only affecting hardcore merit movers, not module shoppers

2. For every hostile pledged player currently instanced with, the NPC threat is diminished proportionately ("player replaces NPCs"), regardless of mode

3. Default NPC threat level for a player of a given rating is decided as a function of the number of instanceable enemy pledged CMDRs in the same system and cruise level/POI as the player (could be encountered by the player in open or in the same PG; do not have the player blocked in-game or via router) as well as rating, combat rank and loadout of those CMDRs. This could be capped (since player instancing is limited).

4. NPC threats combine in some way if multiple allied CMDRs are instanced together in system, regardless of mode (equivalent to players calling for aid). Again, capped.


It's not all new stuff, and I'm not addressing any technical challenges, and some exploit checks and balances needed, but here are some standout features:

Everything remains optional and opt-in, every mechanic here is pan-modal, and only addresses feature balance. With this, the competitive incentive to avoid open is mitigated, while full merit earning capability is available in all modes.

Module shoppers, casual players and players flying in systems empty of other players are not impacted in any way.

Block function is unaffected, but removes a player's ability to increase NPC threats encountered by players they have blocked. Just as they would not be able to directly attack a player they had blocked.

This requires no other change to the current PP system, and most people won't notice it.

As a confirmed career ganker (= I fly in open), my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined by the fact that I came up with an idea that isn't simply open-only.

This focuses NPC resistance on locations that matter (as decided by players), and has a chance of making the single player experience more varied, interesting and meaningful.
For that level of work you might as well fiddle with the PvE and make it much harder for everyone.

 
I really like this idea.

Special PP NPCs that are an actual threat to people playing PP is perfect. It affects all modes, it would encourage people to wing up for PP and increase teamwork. It doesn't remove any options from the game.

Absolutely spot on.
The idea here is the interchangeability of players and these tough, competent (in the actual, not elite-rank sense) NPCs. If you want to do champion level PP work, then you accept to be challenged in the process. The choice when deciding the mode to do it in is not "which is easiest/quickest for the same effect", it's "do I want the obstruction I encounter to be partly player- or entirely NPC-based". Although it'll never fully be the case, ideally the challenge should be equal (although perhaps different in character) regardless of mode choice. That is the fundamental and objective problem that OO also seeks to address (along with various "fun"-related arguments). I'd always prefer every PPer to be in open, it just makes sense to me, but I think a lot of people would settle for balance across modes.
 
The idea here is the interchangeability of players and these tough, competent (in the actual, not elite-rank sense) NPCs. If you want to do champion level PP work, then you accept to be challenged in the process. The choice when deciding the mode to do it in is not "which is easiest/quickest for the same effect", it's "do I want the obstruction I encounter to be partly player- or entirely NPC-based". Although it'll never fully be the case, ideally the challenge should be equal (although perhaps different in character) regardless of mode choice. That is the fundamental and objective problem that OO also seeks to address (along with various "fun"-related arguments). I'd always prefer every PPer to be in open, it just makes sense to me, but I think a lot of people would settle for balance across modes.
The other is to split modes into roles that interlock. That way you get the most focused game possible and everything plays to its strengths. Solo and PG get missions that scale to NPCs like now (and provide the variety) while open is where the merits are moved, allowing organic team based PvP.
 
For that level of work you might as well fiddle with the PvE and make it much harder for everyone.

Yeah this has much of the same meat. But what if you get rock hard NPCs teaming up with the PvP wing hunting you, still seems imbalanced.
 
The other is to split modes into roles that interlock. That way you get the most focused game possible and everything plays to its strengths. Solo and PG get missions that scale to NPCs like now (and provide the variety) while open is where the merits are moved, allowing organic team based PvP.
What I dislike about this element is that it forces me into closed modes to do those missions, right? I just don't use them, even encountering no-one, open feels more alive because I know that multiplayer events are possible. The rest of my power would have similar reservations.
 
Yeah this has much of the same meat. But what if you get rock hard NPCs teaming up with the PvP wing hunting you, still seems imbalanced.
The issue is this route sorts out the PvE 'layer' of Powerplay properly so that at least its not routine or predictable (since the delivery point is semi random and is destructible).

Plus, the NPCs scale to the effort by breaking down the amount you are shifting by packaging amounts in missions. So, if you stack loads you price in opposition much like the game does today- the difference being that you have to navigate through much more dangerous places. It also makes PG co-operation actually relevant because you can then have proper convoy like gameplay. Open certainly would be tough, but only at the 'contest points' where action was fiercest.
 
What I dislike about this element is that it forces me into closed modes to do those missions, right? I just don't use them, even encountering no-one, open feels more alive because I know that multiplayer events are possible. The rest of my power would have similar reservations.
Really its giving what each mode does best. Solo is great for missions, open for the wider multi system game.

NPCs just crap at Powerplay scales but at mission level you can make Powerplay themed missions that bring in lore and danger to generate mission cargo open delivers.

So solo missions you can grind as much as you like but their role is to generate the cargo and is also PG safe because you can have the fun of doing them with others. The delivery phase in Open is essentially what Powerplay is now- CZ battles and delivering fort / prep materials made in solo.
 
Open certainly would be tough, but only at the 'contest points' where action was fiercest.
There's a reason why action is fiercest, because those are the objectives that matter more than anything that has gone by in the months, possibly, before. The crux of a strategy. Imbalance there is the worst place for it to exist, and generates the worst complaints about closed mode "hiding".
 
Really its giving what each mode does best. Solo is great for missions, open for the wider multi system game.

NPCs just crap at Powerplay scales but at mission level you can make Powerplay themed missions that bring in lore and danger to generate mission cargo open delivers.

So solo missions you can grind as much as you like but their role is to generate the cargo and is also PG safe because you can have the fun of doing them with others. The delivery phase in Open is essentially what Powerplay is now- CZ battles and delivering fort / prep materials made in solo.
It makes sense and I wouldn't hate it. 😄
 
There's a reason why action is fiercest, because those are the objectives that matter more than anything that has gone by in the months, possibly, before. The crux of a strategy. Imbalance there is the worst place for it to exist, and generates the worst complaints about closed mode "hiding".
At the same time though it makes solo much harder- if you grind huge amounts of merits in solo then you'll be seeing the top end NPCs after you- and that trying to do that in a ship thats dedicated to hauling (e.g) makes it a gamble if you have to face NPCs at navs, in supercruise and your POI. Solo today is horrific balance wise as you take off in safety, face unengineered ships and land in total safety.
 
Solo mode shouldn’t be an option for powerplay. Pledging should just drop it from your option screen.

We don’t need some convoluted rework to give PVE powerplay some meaning. Just make it a PVP game, it’s like going to San Tu. There’s rebuys in there, but fun too.
Liked for bringing the Empire to the OO party 😛. Although hopefully you're not suggesting throwing out the PvE side. That's what makes things organic - "attacked while doing X", "defend the guys doing Y". San Tu it ain't, to me (not that I ever go there).
 
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Solo mode shouldn’t be an option for powerplay. Pledging should just drop it from your option screen.

We don’t need some convoluted rework to give PVE powerplay some meaning. Just make it a PVP game, it’s like going to San Tu. There’s rebuys in there, but fun too.

Saying the same since years...
 
Liked for bringing the Empire to the OO party 😛. Although hopefully you're not suggesting throwing out the PvE side. That's what makes things organic - "attacked while doing X", "defend the guys doing Y". San Tu it ain't, to me (not that I ever go there).
Lavigny’s Legion has always been “open only” for all BGS and Powerplay. It’s why I’m here. This is not optional for us, and Feds often raid our systems. That’s the way the game is supposed to work. Open play is fun, I recommend it for everyone.
 

How is Powerplay not open only yet?​


frightened carebears, that's why.​

the endless debate of "i want to have a part in the galaxy and save the princess who will love me forever with my shieldless t9 and don't want to engage in pewpew with green haired kids who call me duuuuude".

and when the grind becomes too much there are bots for that, nobody will verify.
 
how many times does this type of thread need to be re-open,you been told many times that the system is inter-twinned too work only with both option open.and before you make jokes about carebears i was in two factions in open.

one can not live without the other.
 

frightened carebears, that's why.​

the endless debate of "i want to have a part in the galaxy and save the princess who will love me forever with my shieldless t9 and don't want to engage in pewpew with green haired kids who call me duuuuude".

and when the grind becomes too much there are bots for that, nobody will verify.


'Cos Frontier realised early on not everybody wants to play with guys like you buddy and way you refer to fellow gamers? = yeah wonder why
 
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