Engineers How long do you think the upgrade paths for the engineers should take?
- Thread starter frostypaw
- Start date
I voted: don't care.
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The more I think of it the more I want all the upgrades and special effects removed from the main game and restricted to special missions that can be accessed via The Engineers (and only usable for the duration of the special mission).
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Before release I convinced myself that The Engineers would be people with ties to organisations like the military, secret services, INRA, etc. I suspected the enhanced ships and weapons would be needed for secret missions and secret wars these organisations run and that high(er) ranked commanders could access such missions via The Engineers. Unfortunately, it seems The Engineers do not mark the beginnings of new and deeper gameplay along the lines of the existing lore of the Elite universe. Instead it seems the beginning of an eternal arms race to make combat "more fun" including cartoonish special effects that Wile E. Coyote would buy from ACME..
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The more I think of it the more I want all the upgrades and special effects removed from the main game and restricted to special missions that can be accessed via The Engineers (and only usable for the duration of the special mission).
.
Before release I convinced myself that The Engineers would be people with ties to organisations like the military, secret services, INRA, etc. I suspected the enhanced ships and weapons would be needed for secret missions and secret wars these organisations run and that high(er) ranked commanders could access such missions via The Engineers. Unfortunately, it seems The Engineers do not mark the beginnings of new and deeper gameplay along the lines of the existing lore of the Elite universe. Instead it seems the beginning of an eternal arms race to make combat "more fun" including cartoonish special effects that Wile E. Coyote would buy from ACME..
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Actually, it the best idea I have seen about engineers.
I think you should put this into suggestion thread, maybe (there is hope, right?) FD will use the idea.
Some people are not happy with extreme grind, some do not like RNG factor. But most suggestions are about faster grind, not replacing it with more logical and/or fun mechanics.
Replacing random generation with controllable balance between different stats is both more logical (it is technology, not magic) and more rewarding (gives you a feel that your actions actually had meaning).
From lore point of view, it also makes more sense. Engineers are not some shamans who mix random components and pray that something useful will happen. They have knowledge how modules work and skill to make them work better.
If you use a rasp on some part to make it 2mm thinner – it will become lighter and, at the same time, lose some of its durability. Make it thinner 5mm – it will become even lighter and less durable. If you want, you may reinforce it with some rare material to offset some of the durability loss.
And if you actually know what are you doing, then you can predict outcome before starting to work.
There Is no magic here, just common sense.
When you allow someone to work on your equipment, you probably expect he is a professional. That is why they called “engineers”.
Now they are just amateurs, who randomly use tools and rare components on extremely expensive hardware just hoping something good will happen.
Very true, and not unconsidered to be honest but I think it's interesting for those to be separate polls.
Well people might consider it that, but that's far from true.
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I do not play more than : 3 hours a day during work week and 5-7 hour on weekends.
I already : unlocked 10 engineers, got 2 more invitation. 1 completed tonight for sure.
Got 1 grade 5, 5 grade 3, 2 grade 2 and 2 grade 1 engineers.
Many ships modded, 145 created modules in total including discarded ones.
From my opinion progression is just OK. In 2 months all my ships will be prepared. And I have almost every ships.
I already : unlocked 10 engineers, got 2 more invitation. 1 completed tonight for sure.
Got 1 grade 5, 5 grade 3, 2 grade 2 and 2 grade 1 engineers.
Many ships modded, 145 created modules in total including discarded ones.
From my opinion progression is just OK. In 2 months all my ships will be prepared. And I have almost every ships.
Tbh the questions impossible to answer because they don't follow any rhyme or reason, It could take 6 months to unlock the last one but they could be completely worthless, the opposite side of that is we got rank 5 FSD/Distributor straight away.
Either way it should be modelled off the average player with a time frame in mind, the person with every engineer at rank 5 will have put serious hours in to do so, I've got most at rank 5 and I've probably put in 30 ish hours to get to where i'm at. Personally I think this is too fast, but they literally made the whole thing such a mess that its impossible to decipher.
Rank 5's available instantly, stepping stones available at the end of paths, very low material requirements for some allow next to instant leveling, commodity/exploration data/bounty handins speed up leveling vastly and basically bypass all the core mechanics, completely random distributions of rare materials in recipes i mean tier 5 shields is about the cheapest recipe i've made whereas some tier 2's cost considerably more.
Its a mess, they should look at it and literally fix the entire thing in one go, change the structure and the progressions and rebalance the recipe costs to actually be in stages from common to rare.
Please note while i've just moaned about a lot of stuff I actually enjoy the engineers and they are doing a great job of motivating me to play, I just think they could have been implemented with considerably more reasoning than they have been (I mean were still missing most of the weapon tier 5's and they gated somebody behind a mechanic they know full well is bugged)
Either way it should be modelled off the average player with a time frame in mind, the person with every engineer at rank 5 will have put serious hours in to do so, I've got most at rank 5 and I've probably put in 30 ish hours to get to where i'm at. Personally I think this is too fast, but they literally made the whole thing such a mess that its impossible to decipher.
Rank 5's available instantly, stepping stones available at the end of paths, very low material requirements for some allow next to instant leveling, commodity/exploration data/bounty handins speed up leveling vastly and basically bypass all the core mechanics, completely random distributions of rare materials in recipes i mean tier 5 shields is about the cheapest recipe i've made whereas some tier 2's cost considerably more.
Its a mess, they should look at it and literally fix the entire thing in one go, change the structure and the progressions and rebalance the recipe costs to actually be in stages from common to rare.
Please note while i've just moaned about a lot of stuff I actually enjoy the engineers and they are doing a great job of motivating me to play, I just think they could have been implemented with considerably more reasoning than they have been (I mean were still missing most of the weapon tier 5's and they gated somebody behind a mechanic they know full well is bugged)
The problem with this poll is that we all play vastly different numbers of hours per month. I only manage 2-3 hours per week, so I took 6 months, but thinking about it a bit more, I should probably have taken a year.
But the timing question is important. I think FD timed Engineer progress to work best for new starting players coming into the game in a Sidewinder. As they become wealthier and upgrade to better ships, they gradually accrue the various materials at an appropriate pace. But many of the people here on the forums are veterans already flying in tricked out top range ships, so they focus exclusively on engineers, and then progress becomes a "grind".
But the timing question is important. I think FD timed Engineer progress to work best for new starting players coming into the game in a Sidewinder. As they become wealthier and upgrade to better ships, they gradually accrue the various materials at an appropriate pace. But many of the people here on the forums are veterans already flying in tricked out top range ships, so they focus exclusively on engineers, and then progress becomes a "grind".
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I don't really care about the time it takes,
what bugs me is the way the mods force you into certain playstyles.
I won't be forced in doing stuff i dislike, that is the path to uninstalling the game.
I nearly made that mistake once, while powerplay was introduced
and went for "working the game" to get the money from assisting the faction.
It was all good fun joining in with comrades to further a common goal,
until it solemnly turned to work, to keep the record up so i could counter
decisions i disliked.
Engineers will not change my ways of playing the game,
and i refuse to commit to grinding for addons.
what bugs me is the way the mods force you into certain playstyles.
I won't be forced in doing stuff i dislike, that is the path to uninstalling the game.
I nearly made that mistake once, while powerplay was introduced
and went for "working the game" to get the money from assisting the faction.
It was all good fun joining in with comrades to further a common goal,
until it solemnly turned to work, to keep the record up so i could counter
decisions i disliked.
Engineers will not change my ways of playing the game,
and i refuse to commit to grinding for addons.
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they just grind and cheat about with trade websites and material spreadsheets in 0 heat one shot a capital ship alpha builds from cariolis.
some haven' t ever played the actual game.
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Not sure, since with the time I have to play, 6 months to a year for me might be 3 years for someone else... Hard to quantify how long it should take considering that's hand in hand with the time you have to put into it...
I wouldn't mind one bit if it took a whole 6 months to get a single level 5 upgrade, but for someone who has even less play time then me, that could mean a year or more..
I wouldn't mind one bit if it took a whole 6 months to get a single level 5 upgrade, but for someone who has even less play time then me, that could mean a year or more..
I voted NOW, because it's way too slow currently with limited playtime available. Engineers is a triple grind right now. Grind to unlock them, then grind to upgrade then, and finally grind to get materials. It feels about the same scope as creating a legendary weapon on Guild Wars 2. I did that exactly once, then I was too fed up to try another. But here in ED I have 10 ships that all need their upgrades, it's frustrating.
I voted a year or more, because its pretty clear that these will be the only core upgrades ever. Furthermore, Elite never has been or is never likely to become a game with lots and lots of ships to collect. I'm still going to be flying an Imperial Clipper as my primary ship for probably the duration of the game, and I want to still be tinkering away with it for that entire time. If I unlock my upgrades all to Lvl5 with close to maxed out stats I'm back to where I was before 2.1 launch, it's like hitting the level cap on an RPG, once you get there whats the point? Yeah, I'll still play just for the joy of it, but I'll not be as invested in it as I am now and may even find myself drifting away.
I don't care how long it takes if only you could see progress. With poweplay and ranking, you can see that each ship killed, each mission completed or each trade transaction took you a bit closer to your goal. With engineers, you have no idea how or when you will find that firmware you need to roll the RNG for your upgrade, which may turn out to be a downgrade, which then causes massive disappointment and frustration when you get nothing for days of work.
It would be much better if what the engineer was offering was pre-determined, then you get sent to do activities for him, like completing missions, getting exploration data, goods or bounty vouchers instead of going on some random easter egg hunt with no hope or direction to find the stuff. For me, so far 167 hours for about three firmwares, despite following every advice on the internet. I'm going to give it one more day, then I'm out, like the rest of them.
It would be much better if what the engineer was offering was pre-determined, then you get sent to do activities for him, like completing missions, getting exploration data, goods or bounty vouchers instead of going on some random easter egg hunt with no hope or direction to find the stuff. For me, so far 167 hours for about three firmwares, despite following every advice on the internet. I'm going to give it one more day, then I'm out, like the rest of them.
It's ok - we roughly know the average hours played per day per player from other stats, so as long as enough folk vote it should balance itself - just vote as however you play
This. The number of hours in game for the career path would be a much more sensible thing to ask.
Just answer for yourself - we sorta know the average number of hours people play and frontier absolutely do.
The problem applies both ways - if someone only plays 80 hours in the year but thinks they should finish it in 6 months they'd answer 40 hours and it might appear they want to smash it all out in days after launch. Just vote for how you play and the statistics sort that bit out enough so we can get a distribution of how long after launch people think they should have 'completed' the content
Frontier haven't released any numbers have they so are you using steam as a representation ?
What is the average hours people play btw ?
I agree, and think it would benefit if this was the main driving force. Why allow a player to have a high rank in both the empire and federation? To be both a trader and a pirate?
Other RPGs do this, your character can be a renegade or a paragon but not both at the same time. Maxing one character is doable without totally endless grind, but there's great replay value for doing a completely different character. Why not multiple CMDR slots
