How to avoid Gankers.

[Phisto Sobanii]

Thanks for all the comments - what I have concluded from my very brief experience in open is that Elite is two completely different games.

1. In Mobius / solo. it is a game with:
rules: NPC's will try to steal your cargo, but they won't just open fire for no reason or if you have nothing to steal.
etiquette: NPC's will hail you and warn you before they try to steal your cargo. You can take the decision to fight back, give in, flee.
sportsmanship: NPC's are generally ranked to your combat skill. (similar to a Golf handicap where you could play and have a fun game, even against Tiger Woods)
referee: In non anarchy systems, the system security forces may eventually come and help.
calculated risk: e.g. Since I generally can only play relatively short sessions, I am always getting attacked while mining. I recently tried to fight back in my mining ship with lots of painite onboard, but it turned out it was not just the normal 1-2 ships, it was a wing of 5 that attacked and killed me. That was an expensive learning experience too.

2. In open, it is not really a game. It is a free-for-all with:
no rules:
no etiquette:
no sportsmanship:
no referee:
unknowable risk:

I was in Shana Bei, a "High Security" system for the CG - but in the <5s it took for my 6C shields and 3 x shield boosters to vanish, I briefly saw a message that system security was on the way. Thanks a lot Fdev

I am not complaining, and I wouldn't report the CMDR for cheating - it was quite probably a legit "kill" and the CMDR can proudly hang up another "harmless Type-9" trophy onto his wall. He role-played psychopathic serial killer to perfection.

I was merely disappointed, since I have seen various forum posts and You-tubers saying what fun they have had in Open, so I wanted to try it too. I knew there was a certain amount of risk going into open and I obviously underestimated it. If I had known about, and had time to read, these sort of thread's beforehand then I might have been better prepared !

Kudos on your for giving it a shot. There's a lot more to it than just CGs, as I'm sure you're learning. Head out to Maia. Find some of the cool squadrons around here and join up with them (I think AEDC and GARD just had a nice little war over Helios recently).

Heck, if you're up for a road trip c'mon out to Colonia. Good times galore in Carcosa.

 

[Night Parrot]

I play in Open ALL the time... I live in Australia... I hardly ever see another player from the northern hemisphere... I would welcome ganking just for the experience of seeing another player... I have gone to CGs while watching a Twitch Stream with 15 to 20 players in SC, but when I get there, NOTHING ...

 

[Bigmaec]

I play in Open ALL the time... I live in Australia... I hardly ever see another player from the northern hemisphere... I would welcome ganking just for the experience of seeing another player... I have gone to CGs while watching a Twitch Stream with 15 to 20 players in SC, but when I get there, NOTHING ...

Yeah, timezones are the real killer (and the Advanced Docking Computer...)
Try running a CG in open in central european prime time.
You'll get all the pew pew you'd welcome and two gank-wings of 4 extra included in the price

 

[Brrokk]

Thanks for all the comments - what I have concluded from my very brief experience in open is that Elite is two completely different games.

1. In Mobius / solo. it is a game with:
rules: NPC's will try to steal your cargo, but they won't just open fire for no reason or if you have nothing to steal.
etiquette: NPC's will hail you and warn you before they try to steal your cargo. You can take the decision to fight back, give in, flee.
sportsmanship: NPC's are generally ranked to your combat skill. (similar to a Golf handicap where you could play and have a fun game, even against Tiger Woods)
referee: In non anarchy systems, the system security forces may eventually come and help.
calculated risk: e.g. Since I generally can only play relatively short sessions, I am always getting attacked while mining. I recently tried to fight back in my mining ship with lots of painite onboard, but it turned out it was not just the normal 1-2 ships, it was a wing of 5 that attacked and killed me. That was an expensive learning experience too.

2. In open, it is not really a game. It is a free-for-all with:
no rules:
no etiquette:
no sportsmanship:
no referee:
unknowable risk:

I was in Shana Bei, a "High Security" system for the CG - but in the <5s it took for my 6C shields and 3 x shield boosters to vanish, I briefly saw a message that system security was on the way. Thanks a lot Fdev

I am not complaining, and I wouldn't report the CMDR for cheating - it was quite probably a legit "kill" and the CMDR can proudly hang up another "harmless Type-9" trophy onto his wall. He role-played psychopathic serial killer to perfection.

I was merely disappointed, since I have seen various forum posts and You-tubers saying what fun they have had in Open, so I wanted to try it too. I knew there was a certain amount of risk going into open and I obviously underestimated it. If I had known about, and had time to read, these sort of thread's beforehand then I might have been better prepared !

This is well put. I recognise the idea that we have a single galaxy but at least two completely different ways of playing a game in it. I think this accounts for some of the misunderstandings and annoyances we see here.

 

[rxay579]

Or perhaps you could've added a big shield, four boosters, some HRPs and MRPS and applied engineering to your ship, and would've survived. Who knows?

I'm really tired of reading bad advice like this.
I was out at a rescue CG last year in something like this Python (https://s.orbis.zone/3hb0; TLDR: 6C Bi-Weave G5 Thermal Resist, 2 G5 Resist Boosters, 1 G5 Heavy Duty Booster, 1 PD, 4 Pips SYS, 2 Pips ENG, PVE outfit), chatting, not paying attention, then got 5 on 1 ganked by a very well outfitted team of a wing of 4 plus one more; FSD disruptors, drag munitions, and high alpha damage weapons (OC Plasmas, etc) in the hands of experienced gankers.
In ~60 seconds, I was quite dead with little chance of escape. The only useful advice I got when it was all done and settled was "you should have seen it coming and run away sooner".

I don't generally grind mats or exploit gold rushes, so not shortcuts for me; the rebuy was ~1-2 hours of my time (rough estimate of time vs credits earned). I don't get to play Elite as much as I'd like (because of adulting) and incidents like that make taking the time seem less worthwhile. I'm not active enough to warrant consideration from player groups, so grabbing a wing when I have all of an hour to play isn't reasonable. I'm probably just unlucky in that too many of my experiences with other players worked out like the above. Oh woe is me, boo hoo .

I get that some people have time on their hands and that they are capable of dominating weaker players in a game. Though I don't agree with it, I vaguely grasp the ganker mentality. But reading bad comments like this is really annoying; if you don't have useful advice, don't just parrot nonsense.

 

[rxay579]

edit DUPE

 

[Riverside]

I'm really tired of reading bad advice like this.
I was out at a rescue CG last year in something like this Python (https://s.orbis.zone/3hb0; TLDR: 6C Bi-Weave G5 Thermal Resist, 2 G5 Resist Boosters, 1 G5 Heavy Duty Booster, 1 PD, 4 Pips SYS, 2 Pips ENG, PVE outfit), chatting, not paying attention, then got 5 on 1 ganked by a very well outfitted team of a wing of 4 plus one more; FSD disruptors, drag munitions, and high alpha damage weapons (OC Plasmas, etc) in the hands of experienced gankers.
In ~60 seconds, I was quite dead with little chance of escape. The only useful advice I got when it was all done and settled was "you should have seen it coming and run away sooner".

I don't generally grind mats or exploit gold rushes, so not shortcuts for me; the rebuy was ~1-2 hours of my time (rough estimate of time vs credits earned). I don't get to play Elite as much as I'd like (because of adulting) and incidents like that make taking the time seem less worthwhile. I'm not active enough to warrant consideration from player groups, so grabbing a wing when I have all of an hour to play isn't reasonable. I'm probably just unlucky in that too many of my experiences with other players worked out like the above. Oh woe is me, boo hoo .

I get that some people have time on their hands and that they are capable of dominating weaker players in a game. Though I don't agree with it, I vaguely grasp the ganker mentality. But reading bad comments like this is really annoying; if you don't have useful advice, don't just parrot nonsense.

I think you make a good point but Bigmaec's advice is still worth taking onboard (as you feel you already had). As you imply though, there is more to it than simple outfitting, situational awareness is at least as important and that comes through experience just as it did for you.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I think you make a good point but Bigmaec's advice is still worth taking onboard (as you feel you already had). As you imply though, there is more to it than simple outfitting, situational awareness is at least as important and that comes through experience just as it did for you.

Yes, all the good advice in the world won't save you if you're "chatting, not paying attention" as a wing comes zeroing in on you.

 

[Bigmaec]

I'm really tired of reading bad advice like this.
I was out at a rescue CG last year in something like this Python (https://s.orbis.zone/3hb0; TLDR: 6C Bi-Weave G5 Thermal Resist, 2 G5 Resist Boosters, 1 G5 Heavy Duty Booster, 1 PD, 4 Pips SYS, 2 Pips ENG, PVE outfit), chatting, not paying attention, then got 5 on 1 ganked by a very well outfitted team of a wing of 4 plus one more; FSD disruptors, drag munitions, and high alpha damage weapons (OC Plasmas, etc) in the hands of experienced gankers.
In ~60 seconds, I was quite dead with little chance of escape. The only useful advice I got when it was all done and settled was "you should have seen it coming and run away sooner".

I don't generally grind mats or exploit gold rushes, so not shortcuts for me; the rebuy was ~1-2 hours of my time (rough estimate of time vs credits earned). I don't get to play Elite as much as I'd like (because of adulting) and incidents like that make taking the time seem less worthwhile. I'm not active enough to warrant consideration from player groups, so grabbing a wing when I have all of an hour to play isn't reasonable. I'm probably just unlucky in that too many of my experiences with other players worked out like the above. Oh woe is me, boo hoo .

I get that some people have time on their hands and that they are capable of dominating weaker players in a game. Though I don't agree with it, I vaguely grasp the ganker mentality. But reading bad comments like this is really annoying; if you don't have useful advice, don't just parrot nonsense.

Of course you're dead against 5. Why shouldn't you? A game balanced so that you can win against 5to1 odds is rather unbalanced. The trick is to don't get into such a situation.
You said yourself, you were distracted. So you dun goofed.

 

[ElectricFactory]

Well presented Schmack.
As someone relatively new to the game ( ie under 1yr) I agree with you entirely. I too prefer to play in solo, having tried open for a period and finding the random interdiction intrusions both annoying and pointless from the standpoint of playing my own game.
Further, if there were only Open mode in ED I wonder if my interest in playing the game would've sustined past the first 1-2 unexplained 'gankings'- I mean who needs it ?

Which is why I said "ergo solo". The original point was that, instead of outfitting to survive gankers and unexplained interdictions, play in solo. That's what the poster stated they would do, and someone said they should outfit for the interdictions if they are going to play in Open. I fully understand the situation and feel like you haven't read through it.

I'm talking about someone who doesn't want to experience forearm smashing mid-game so they elect to play alone. There's no way to know why the poster was interdicted because there was no communication. At least in the days of the Code, they would ask why you were there, then give you opportunity to leave (my personal experience). Getting killed without comment is just poor gamesmanship and to avoid that, you'd have to avoid playing in open or be unable to die easily. You'd still experience the attempt though. I already know open includes all sorts of random player vs player contact. I think that's fine. I don't care to partake though. If that poster doesn't want to die, that poster should not play in a mode that is so unpredictable.

 

[znôrt]

I'm really tired of reading bad advice like this.
...
But reading bad comments like this is really annoying; if you don't have useful advice, don't just parrot nonsense.

whoa there! i think bigmaec knows very well how to anticipate and avoid a gank, you obviously don't, so relax a bit.

see, your problem starts right here:

chatting, not paying attention

this is the opposite of what you have to do. awareness is everything. if you have it, a well planned build that helps you resist the few critical seconds you need to escape is very important. if you don't it's kind of moot, it won't magically save you. go check rinzler's 'git gud guide to trading in open', which may be a bit outdated but has become an iconic and canonical document by now, and realize that while it does stress the necessity of some minimal protection, it's basically about awareness and readyness.

in the situation you describe ... there would be clearly something wrong in the game if 5 dedicated combat ships focusing on a transport python couldn't dispatch it in seconds, no matter the protection, engineers or not. this would not have happened if you had been, well, paying attention.

i agree engineers make this more difficult. engineers added to this game the perverse paradigm of 'veteran players have better equipment on top' which is total nonsense and the plague that has made hundreds of recent good games irrelevant for me (while doing financially good thanks to exploiting this reptilian mindset in players). also, frontier did a particularly dumb and overblown implementation of that. this is the worst offender imo, and i can readily believe you get obliterated in seconds with that gear ... if you don't pay attention!

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

5vs1 shouldn't just happen in the first place... Except if you want a toxic sandbox like Rust, or when it's balanced around that like in Evolve.

I cant say those two games inspires me the biggest interest.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

With the gloryfied community Goal now ongoing i saw quite a few people trying to Gank.
So i thought ill list some things on wich you can easily identify a Ganker / Griefer and block them before they can even interdict you. Blocking them makes it ALMOST impossible for them to get in the same instance as you or even interdict you because they dont show up in your instance after interdicting you.

First sign of a Ganker / Griefer: An absoutely stupid name like: Achickenforallseasons, Rebuydisorder, Randomtwelveyearoldwizzard, Saltedcottoncandy.
Second sign of a Griefer / Ganker: A Holo Me looking like a Zebra fell into 20 Buckets of different Colors. Preferably very old ones.
Third sign of a Griefer / Ganker: A Cutter, Corvette or Anaconda on a Community Goal that only supports small and Midsize ships. Beware of FDLs too.

If you see one of those Signs or even ALL of them and you dont wanna get ganked in your little Diamondback or ASP, block that Person. If they somehow manage to get in the same instance with you and pull you out (if you both share a Friend on the FL this CAN happen), Dobt forget to HIGH WAKE, not low wake since high wake dont suffer from Mass lock.

Btw: Dont mistake a Player-Pirate for a Griefer, a Pirate will never just kill you, he will interdict you, scan you for Cargo, steal your Cargo and then go. A Pirate only kills if you are Rude to him or dont oblige to his requests.

Have a good Day and good Luck on the new Community Goal.

Edit: Woah, calm down Friends, it was more of a "fun Thread" and i thought the Zebra with 20 different Colors made sure people would understand that.
Dontcha get so angry everyone.

Ganking is now a huge part of the open experience. I rarely encounter or interface with other players outwith being ganked. Play in solo or mobius. Sure, you won't see anyone but at least your doing your bit to ensure gankers don't get the satisfaction of finding targets and eventually FDev will take action when gankers have driven a large enough portion of players out of open....so some good might actually come from boycotting open until it's addressed.

 

[znôrt]

FDev will take action when gankers have driven a large enough portion of players out of open....so some good might actually come from boycotting open until it's addressed.

well, the game costs the same wether you play open, solo or private, frontier really doesn't care. they don't pay for workhorse servers anyway, so nothing is lost if you don't use them. even if open were to get some really bad public reputation (not just salt from a few butthurts here) ... frontier has shown they can happily ignore much, MUCH worse (see the thread on cheating for example).

you might argue it would be detrimental to the shop. that could be true to an extent, but i don't think enough to offset the massive net profit frontier gets from sold copies while not having invested in crucial resources and knowledge for a properly working virtual world. they just threw all players in a nonsensical modes compartment system, with no consideration whatsoever on the consequences, and players have just bought that and even called it 'genius'. yeah, financial and marketing genius for sure.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

well, the game costs the same wether you play open, solo or private, frontier really doesn't care. they don't pay for workhorse servers anyway, so nothing is lost if you don't use them. even if open were to get some really bad public reputation (not just salt from a few butthurts here) ... frontier has shown they can happily ignore much, MUCH worse (see the thread on cheating for example).

you might argue it would be detrimental to the shop. that could be true to an extent, but i don't think enough to offset the massive net profit frontier gets from sold copies while not having invested in crucial resources and knowledge for a properly working virtual world. they just threw all players in a nonsensical modes compartment system, with no consideration whatsoever on the consequences, and players have just bought that and even called in 'genius'. yeah, financial and marketing genius for sure.

My premise for saying this isn't based on people buying the game or otherwise. It's based on what Braben has himself said about ganking driving players out of open plus the intuitive fact if all that's left in open are gankers, it makes sense FDev would want to address that (although who knows with Frontier).

 

[znôrt]

My premise for saying this isn't based on people buying the game or otherwise. It's based on what Braben has himself said about ganking driving players out of open plus the intuitive fact if all that's left in open are gankers, it makes sense FDev would want to address that (although who knows with Frontier).

braben is just the ceo. what should he know!

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

5vs1 shouldn't just happen in the first place... Except if you want a toxic sandbox like Rust, or when it's balanced around that like in Evolve.

I cant say those two games inspires me the biggest interest.

There's nothing wrong with a five vs. one situation.

Ganking is now a huge part of the open experience. I rarely encounter or interface with other players outwith being ganked. Play in solo or mobius. Sure, you won't see anyone but at least your doing your bit to ensure gankers don't get the satisfaction of finding targets and eventually FDev will take action when gankers have driven a large enough portion of players out of open....so some good might actually come from boycotting open until it's addressed.

If all you do is go to the hottest player spots in the game you're going to run into opposition. Maybe consider some place away from the core worlds?

And besides, folks been saying for years gankers gonna drive everyone out of Open eventually. Hasn't happened. Won't happen.

 

[Bigmaec]

I'm really tired of reading bad advice like this.
I was out at a rescue CG last year in something like this Python (https://s.orbis.zone/3hb0; TLDR: 6C Bi-Weave G5 Thermal Resist, 2 G5 Resist Boosters, 1 G5 Heavy Duty Booster, 1 PD, 4 Pips SYS, 2 Pips ENG, PVE outfit), chatting, not paying attention, then got 5 on 1 ganked by a very well outfitted team of a wing of 4 plus one more; FSD disruptors, drag munitions, and high alpha damage weapons (OC Plasmas, etc) in the hands of experienced gankers.
In ~60 seconds, I was quite dead with little chance of escape. The only useful advice I got when it was all done and settled was "you should have seen it coming and run away sooner".

I don't generally grind mats or exploit gold rushes, so not shortcuts for me; the rebuy was ~1-2 hours of my time (rough estimate of time vs credits earned). I don't get to play Elite as much as I'd like (because of adulting) and incidents like that make taking the time seem less worthwhile. I'm not active enough to warrant consideration from player groups, so grabbing a wing when I have all of an hour to play isn't reasonable. I'm probably just unlucky in that too many of my experiences with other players worked out like the above. Oh woe is me, boo hoo .

I get that some people have time on their hands and that they are capable of dominating weaker players in a game. Though I don't agree with it, I vaguely grasp the ganker mentality. But reading bad comments like this is really annoying; if you don't have useful advice, don't just parrot nonsense.

Finally had some time to look into your build.
Generally I think it is a bit on the low shielded side to survive a multiple-player gank, it would even cut too close for my tastes against single high-dps outfits.
I survived an attempted gank with my Anaconda with 800 mj against a frag FedCorvette just barely, with 3% hull. Next engagement with 1100 mj was a piece of cake, I survived without hull damage. With my 950 mj Krait Phantom I survived everything DG2 could throw against me. But as said before, if you run into a 4-wing gank you're generally toast if you make just one single mistake, like wrong pips (yours was correct by the way, 240 is the classic mistake, 420 is survival), or fumbling with the escape system or getting hit by a grom.
The second thing you said I want to comment is the 60 second remark. I know timeflow is strange under attack, minutes seem like instantly gone, and seconds seem like eternities.
But a highwake takes 15 seconds plus the cooldown if you submit (and you ALWAYS submit!), so even if hit by a grom you should generally escape after the cooldown in the span of a minute. So I guess you made another mistake here and either didn't submit or botched the highwake. You can preselect a system in range and apply a button to that choice. That's generally the first thing I do if entering a contested system.

If you're in a non-PvP outfit, the first thing you should do is check the bandwith. >600 bit and there is another CMDR.
Second thing to check is if its a rectangle or triangle. Nowadays that's a bit unclear, as most gankers activate the interdictor only shortly before, and explorers run as triangle due to FSS activated.
Obvious "problematic" ships are Kraits, FdLs, Corvettes, Cutters, etc... If you are sufficiently far away, you can scan them to if they are in a wing (bad sign) and/or if they have an interdictor (bad sign). Also you see if they are wanted (very bad sign) or if they have clown avatars (murderhobo sign )
If there are any bad signs, it's up to you: continue? drop to normal space to possibly change the instance? highwake to next system for another try? All possible.

And the last thing you can do is use another mode - which is perfectly viable. I played more then half of my 2900 hours in Mobius, that's totally cool.
But don't blame the game, or open for mistakes made. And please don't try to tell others open is a hellhole. It's not. Certain systems are dangerous, and if I'm in a ship that stands no chance to survive an attack, I have no problems to fly to an engineer in solo. But generally open is another completely different game, because you can run into danger about everywhere, and nothing is as predictable as it is with NPCs.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

There's nothing wrong with a five vs. one situation.



If all you do is go to the hottest player spots in the game you're going to run into opposition. Maybe consider some place away from the core worlds?

And besides, folks been saying for years gankers gonna drive everyone out of Open eventually. Hasn't happened. Won't happen.

Anecdotally, the process is still underway. I know lots of people who don't bother with open now and I rarely see anyone who isn't a ganker any more.

Opppsition isn't a problem. Ganking is. Open play has been ruined by anti-social players. If you're happy with that situation then enjoy. But you're increasingly outnumbering 'normal' players.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Anecdotally, the process is still underway. I know lots of people who don't bother with open now and I rarely see anyone who isn't a ganker any more.

Opppsition isn't a problem. Ganking is. Open play has been ruined by anti-social players. If you're happy with that situation then enjoy. But you're increasingly outnumbering 'normal' players.

FDEV themselves say Open is the most popular mode. I know plenty of people, probably more than you, who enjoy Open Mode. And no, they are not gankers or even regularly deal with gankers. Sure, Open isn't for everyone but it's not a wasteland.

Pull your head out of the sand and educate yourself. All there is to it.