How to avoid Gankers.

[Schmack]

My wife's only being watching hockey for two years, and she clearly knows more about it than you do based on that terribad analogy.

I've never watched hockey so you may have a point. We don't get a lot of it around Austin.

My point is that telling someone to engineer and reoutfit instead of going to solo when their complaint is they were killed at a CG doesn't seem like a counter offer. He obviously didn't want to be killed without some dialogue or gameplay. He was. He decided Solo was better. It's not really an outfitting thing.

At least now he will see "good job, I found you".

 

[Goose4291]

I've never watched hockey so you may have a point. We don't get a lot of it around Austin.

You've got the Texan Stars there. Go and watch a game. Have your world transformed.

 

[Schmack]

You've got the Texan Stars there. Go and watch a game. Have your world transformed.

Can't watch that or soccer. I prefer NBA. Different strokes.

 

[Goose4291]

Can't watch that or soccer. I prefer NBA. Different strokes.

shakes shoulders

Then use a basketball analogy. It'll make you look less of a buffoon!

 

[Schmack]

shakes shoulders

Then use a basketball analogy. It'll make you look less of a buffoon!

It wasn't my analogy. Maybe read a little more, serve your own purpose.

 

[Goose4291]

It wasn't my analogy.

Your analogy in response to phisto's was your own though.

If someone uses American Football for an analogy (something I don't understand and would gladly claw my eyes out rather than watch) I wouldn't retort with a badly informed 'rugby with armour analogy', but transfer it to something I knew about.

 

[Schmack]

Elite without random player combat is like going to a favela without getting murdered. It's just part of the experience.

It's called Elite:Favela for a reason

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

It wasn't my analogy. Maybe read a little more, serve your own purpose.

We're talking about a game and yet enjoy jumping instinctively to all or nothing examples of real life violence to explain our points.

It's no wonder there's such a problem with communication on this board. So much poor thinking going on.

 

[Schmack]

You're analogy in response to phisto's was your own though.

I was commenting on how he ignored what's happening in open that drives people to solo. It's not the gameplay, it's the side clowning. Sometimes it's indistinguishable, but people might not take the time to sort it out. You get a new player trying to play along, they get griefed, they avoid Open as a solution. There's nothing in the description that says "real players might try to kill you without obvious cause". So to them the game is hauling x number of things to the station, a "community goal" but the community is trying to kill them now, so not a community goal. In solo, it's still a community goal with only the scripted NPC interaction.

Again, not my analogy.

So should I respond to a hockey analogy with an NBA analogy? No.

If someone uses American Football for an analogy (something I don't understand and would gladly claw my eyes out rather than watch) I wouldn't retort with a badly informed 'rugby with armour analogy', but transfer it to something I knew about.

Then do that mentally with my post and be done with it.

 

[Schmack]

We're talking about a game and yet enjoy jumping instinctively to all or nothing examples of real life violence to explain our points.

It's no wonder there's such a problem with communication on this board. So much poor thinking going on.

The analogy is about decisions, not about severity of consequences. Regardless of his build, he would have been interdicted and attacked without obvious cause. The only difference is he might have survived, but he wouldn't have any idea why he was attacked in the 1st place and likely would draw the conclusion, true or false, that it was just someone having lulz at his expense. Now with the introduction of "cheaters R everywhere!" scare, that too becomes part of the thought process.

You should ratchet your aggression and judgment down a notch and try to have a rational discussion without attacking the poster. This isn't the game.

 

[Goose4291]

I was commenting on how he ignored what's happening in open that drives people to solo. It's not the gameplay, it's the side clowning. Sometimes it's indistinguishable, but people might not take the time to sort it out. You get a new player trying to play along, they get griefed, they avoid Open as a solution. There's nothing in the description that says "real players might try to kill you without obvious cause". So to them the game is hauling x number of things to the station, a "community goal" but the community is trying to kill them now, so not a community goal. In solo, it's still a community goal with only the scripted NPC interaction.

Again, not my analogy.

So should I respond to a hockey analogy with an NBA analogy? No.

Then do that mentally with my post and be done with it.

You just aren't getting this.

In a nutshell, Phisto is arguing that these actions are allowed within the framework of the rules. You're countering by talking about things that ARENT allowed within the framework of the rules.

To use you're world (and I hate doing it, as the wife is the basketball fan) what's happening from my perspective is phistos talking about bad guarding, whereas you're talking about forearm smashing someone mid game.

 

[Ian Skippy]

How about avoiding gankers by building non-paper ships? Learn how to fly maybe? Engineering skews heavily in favour of defensive capabilities. And why not blow them up? If they're not cheating, not hard to do.

Lol, wut mate? Improve my skills and spend my time learning to improve myself?

NEVER!

 

[Schmack]

You just aren't getting this.

In a nutshell, Phisto is arguing that these actions are allowed within the framework of the rules. You're countering by talking about things that ARENT allowed within the framework of the rules.

Which is why I said "ergo solo". The original point was that, instead of outfitting to survive gankers and unexplained interdictions, play in solo. That's what the poster stated they would do, and someone said they should outfit for the interdictions if they are going to play in Open. I fully understand the situation and feel like you haven't read through it.

To use you're world (and I hate doing it, as the wife is the basketball fan) what's happening from my perspective is phistos talking about bad guarding, whereas you're talking about forearm smashing someone mid game.

I'm talking about someone who doesn't want to experience forearm smashing mid-game so they elect to play alone. There's no way to know why the poster was interdicted because there was no communication. At least in the days of the Code, they would ask why you were there, then give you opportunity to leave (my personal experience). Getting killed without comment is just poor gamesmanship and to avoid that, you'd have to avoid playing in open or be unable to die easily. You'd still experience the attempt though. I already know open includes all sorts of random player vs player contact. I think that's fine. I don't care to partake though. If that poster doesn't want to die, that poster should not play in a mode that is so unpredictable.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

The analogy is about decisions, not about severity of consequences. Regardless of his build, he would have been interdicted and attacked without obvious cause. The only difference is he might have survived, but he wouldn't have any idea why he was attacked in the 1st place and likely would draw the conclusion, true or false, that it was just someone having lulz at his expense. Now with the introduction of "cheaters R everywhere!" scare, that too becomes part of the thought process.

You should ratchet your aggression and judgment down a notch and try to have a rational discussion without attacking the poster. This isn't the game.

No, it's a discussion board. My feelings and judgement are right on point.

Look, think of the mentality between "Getting attacked in Elite is like being mugged by thugs in a dark alley" and "Getting attacked in Elite is like taking a hit in a physical sport."

I can guarantee getting in the head space of the latter thought process would ratchet down the vitriol around here quite a lot. More so, I suspect most players in open take it on the chin and get on with it. A relatively small, vocal minority come to whinge about it on the official forums.

In the end, if we think better we'll communicate better. I don't understand your objection to this. Do you value some right to overblown, inappropriate analogies? They really don't help clear things up for anyone.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Honestly, I don't think the OP had anything in mind other that offering some tongue in cheek advice. It's all good.

For my part, so called gankers don't bother me; my block list is empty, and I've gotten good at running. All my ships are engineered to get away, and it works (so far). Mostly because my combat skills (whilst ok) aren't quite up to scratch. Yet. I'll get there at some point - I'm working on it (CQC helps!)

For now, I actually enjoy getting pulled once in a while; it adds a bit of spice, and the way I see it is: "killing your attacker"=100 points, "getting away"=75 points. Escaping is still a win

Dead on the money. Out of curiosity, how difficult was it for you to engineer your ships for escape? I know that's subjective, but perhaps instructive none the less.

 

[Schmack]

No, it's a discussion board. My feelings and judgement are right on point.

Look, think of the mentality between "Getting attacked in Elite is like being mugged by thugs in a dark alley" and "Getting attacked in Elite is like taking a hit in a physical sport."

I can guarantee getting in the head space of the latter thought process would ratchet down the vitriol around here quite a lot. More so, I suspect most players in open take it on the chin and get on with it. A relatively small, vocal minority come to whinge about it on the official forums.

In the end, if we think better we'll communicate better. I don't understand your objection to this. Do you value some right to overblown, inappropriate analogies? They really don't help clear things up for anyone.

I am responding to this post:

I have played in Mobius for years, but I had been reading that "open" wasn't bad - so I I just tried the latest CG in my shiny new, unarmed, Type-9. Jumped in-system with a full load of superconductors, got interdicted and killed in < 5 seconds - no chat, no fun role-playing piracy for me or the other commander. That's 15 million credits (insurance + lost cargo) gone in 5 seconds of "gameplay".
Thanks to the Gankers for this lesson - I will never be playing in open again.

"No chat, no fun role-playing for me or the other commander"

It was suggested that he outfit differently, git gud basically. How often does that actually result in someone doing that?

Being at a disadvantage for some in this game is often a mode or outfitting choice, not a locale or actual time choice, since you can be in the exact same spot at the exact same time in a different mode and make it through 100 times out of 100, or you can be outfitted differently and make it through most of the time. The difference is whether or not you find excitement in random interdictions from people not interested in role playing or communicating, just in salt collections. You cannot really apply that to sports. You cannot say "I should have been on the other court that doesn't have Draymond Green and I wouldn't have gotten kicked in the jewels". You could say though that you should have taken a different path on your way home instead of that dark alley you took to prove to yourself it wasn't dangerous like everyone keeps saying it is. This is what the poster did, they gave it what they consider a chance and it cost them 15m and zero actual entertainment.

I get it that you're the one on the other side of that equation most of the time so you might not have a good frame of reference.

 

[Goose4291]

Honestly, I don't think the OP had anything in mind other that offering some tongue in cheek advice. It's all good.

For my part, so called gankers don't bother me; my block list is empty, and I've gotten good at running. All my ships are engineered to get away, and it works (so far). Mostly because my combat skills (whilst ok) aren't quite up to scratch. Yet. I'll get there at some point - I'm working on it (CQC helps!)

For now, I actually enjoy getting pulled once in a while; it adds a bit of spice, and the way I see it is: "killing your attacker"=100 points, "getting away"=75 points. Escaping is still a win

It's really hard to explain, but when you're an open mode trader trying to offer sensible advice to those complaining about being ass-ploded due to flying an unshielded type 6 in open, to have our commentary sidelined while people post new threads about how they've been ass-ploded in a unshielded type 6, it becomes irksome.

More so when people get away with calling these attackers 'RL Rapists, ISIS members, RL sociopaths and the rest of the hyperbole.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I am responding to this post:


"No chat, no fun role-playing for me or the other commander"

It was suggested that he outfit differently, git gud basically. How often does that actually result in someone doing that?

Being at a disadvantage for some in this game is often a mode or outfitting choice, not a locale or actual time choice, since you can be in the exact same spot at the exact same time in a different mode and make it through 100 times out of 100, or you can be outfitted differently and make it through most of the time. The difference is whether or not you find excitement in random interdictions from people not interested in role playing or communicating, just in salt collections. You cannot really apply that to sports. You cannot say "I should have been on the other court that doesn't have Draymond Green and I wouldn't have gotten kicked in the jewels". You could say though that you should have taken a different path on your way home instead of that dark alley you took to prove to yourself it wasn't dangerous like everyone keeps saying it is. This is what the poster did, they gave it what they consider a chance and it cost them 15m and zero actual entertainment.

I get it that you're the one on the other side of that equation most of the time so you might not have a good frame of reference.

My point is consider the difference between approaching Coypu like "Open is basically getting mugged in an alley just stay away" versus "Oh! That happens. Let me help you understand and prepare for the rules and reality of Open Play a little better."

Regarding what side I'm on, I've spent more than enough time blowing away CMDRs like Coypu. I also have a blast in Open Play no matter what I'm doing whether that's trading, exploring, PvP, PvE, BGS work, whatever.

Perhaps, just maybe, there's something about my attitude you could learn from?

 

[CMDR Coypu]

Regarding what side I'm on, I've spent more than enough time blowing away CMDRs like Coypu. I also have a blast in Open Play no matter what I'm doing whether that's trading, exploring, PvP, PvE, BGS work, whatever.

Thanks for all the comments - what I have concluded from my very brief experience in open is that Elite is two completely different games.

1. In Mobius / solo. it is a game with:
rules: NPC's will try to steal your cargo, but they won't just open fire for no reason or if you have nothing to steal.
etiquette: NPC's will hail you and warn you before they try to steal your cargo. You can take the decision to fight back, give in, flee.
sportsmanship: NPC's are generally ranked to your combat skill. (similar to a Golf handicap where you could play and have a fun game, even against Tiger Woods)
referee: In non anarchy systems, the system security forces may eventually come and help.
calculated risk: e.g. Since I generally can only play relatively short sessions, I am always getting attacked while mining. I recently tried to fight back in my mining ship with lots of painite onboard, but it turned out it was not just the normal 1-2 ships, it was a wing of 5 that attacked and killed me. That was an expensive learning experience too.

2. In open, it is not really a game. It is a free-for-all with:
no rules:
no etiquette:
no sportsmanship:
no referee:
unknowable risk:

I was in Shana Bei, a "High Security" system for the CG - but in the <5s it took for my 6C shields and 3 x shield boosters to vanish, I briefly saw a message that system security was on the way. Thanks a lot Fdev

I am not complaining, and I wouldn't report the CMDR for cheating - it was quite probably a legit "kill" and the CMDR can proudly hang up another "harmless Type-9" trophy onto his wall. He role-played psychopathic serial killer to perfection.

I was merely disappointed, since I have seen various forum posts and You-tubers saying what fun they have had in Open, so I wanted to try it too. I knew there was a certain amount of risk going into open and I obviously underestimated it. If I had known about, and had time to read, these sort of thread's beforehand then I might have been better prepared !

 

[Riverside]

Thanks for all the comments - what I have concluded from my very brief experience in open is that Elite is two completely different games.

1. In Mobius / solo. it is a game with:
rules: NPC's will try to steal your cargo, but they won't just open fire for no reason or if you have nothing to steal.
etiquette: NPC's will hail you and warn you before they try to steal your cargo. You can take the decision to fight back, give in, flee.
sportsmanship: NPC's are generally ranked to your combat skill. (similar to a Golf handicap where you could play and have a fun game, even against Tiger Woods)
referee: In non anarchy systems, the system security forces may eventually come and help.
calculated risk: e.g. Since I generally can only play relatively short sessions, I am always getting attacked while mining. I recently tried to fight back in my mining ship with lots of painite onboard, but it turned out it was not just the normal 1-2 ships, it was a wing of 5 that attacked and killed me. That was an expensive learning experience too.

2. In open, it is not really a game. It is a free-for-all with:
no rules:
no etiquette:
no sportsmanship:
no referee:
unknowable risk:

I was in Shana Bei, a "High Security" system for the CG - but in the <5s it took for my 6C shields and 3 x shield boosters to vanish, I briefly saw a message that system security was on the way. Thanks a lot Fdev

I am not complaining, and I wouldn't report the CMDR for cheating - it was quite probably a legit "kill" and the CMDR can proudly hang up another "harmless Type-9" trophy onto his wall. He role-played psychopathic serial killer to perfection.

I was merely disappointed, since I have seen various forum posts and You-tubers saying what fun they have had in Open, so I wanted to try it too. I knew there was a certain amount of risk going into open and I obviously underestimated it. If I had known about, and had time to read, these sort of thread's beforehand then I might have been better prepared !

You tried it for yourself, you are now better informed about the current state of a CG system or whatever. How you decide to proceed is up to you, you could continue in Open everywhere except around hotspots, or just not go to hotspots at all, whatever you like.

Personally I like the little extra thrill of not being sure what will happen when I meet another player, but I don't generally do CGs any more and if I do I'm expecting to be attacked.

Play your own way, let them play theirs