How to fix Engineers powercreep without upsetting those who grinded for it?

Cmdr Ultra

Cmdr Ultra
The entire gameplay loop of Elite is based around grinding up modules to a gain a performance gap ( therefore advantage ) over those who can't be bothered, don't have the time or have philosophical problems with the concept of everyone not been equal.

Re-balances to Hull Hardness and Transport ships Hit points have been done before. So something similar might happen again. But it needs to be on a ship by ship basis, grandiose sweeping 1.5x improvements for all ships would be silly.

Perhaps yearly editions of Ships could be released with base stat upgrades. A bit like how the Challenger is just a better specced Chieftain.
It is the next years model tougher with more comfortable seats.
 
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Freelancer Knux

Freelancer Knux
Cmdr Ultra said:
The entire gameplay loop of Elite is based around grinding up modules to a gain a performance gap ( therefore advantage ) over those who can't be bothered, don't have the time or have philosophical problems with the concept of everyone not been equal.

Re-balances to Hull Hardness and Transport ships Hit points have been done before. So something similar might happen again. But it needs to be on a ship by ship basis, grandiose sweeping 1.5x improvements for all ships would be silly.

Perhaps yearly editions of Ships could be released with base stat upgrades. A bit like how the Challenger is just a better specced Chieftain.
It is the next years model tougher with more comfortable seats.
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People would still complain of power creep though as they choose to use a Chieftain or first gen ship rather than the newer model.
 

Mercy Killing

Mercy Killing
Freelancer Knux said:
Your lack of skill isn't an engineer issue. Either practice and get better or dont but don't use engineers as an excuse.
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Ah, the old "git gud" reply. I was waiting for that. "Git gud" happened 25 years ago. Since then it's been age. Now, 26 years later....my skills have deteriorated. Yours will too, guaranteed. Aging is the one thing we all do. So by your logic I should just stop playing a game I like because I'm no longer good enough to face lowbie engineered ships.

Also, I work 12 hour graveyard shifts. Four days a week. Sure, that leaves me three days, but when you work graveyard shifts, that first day off isn't really a day off because for me, I'm coming home at 7 am. I just don't have the disposable time. So again, I should just walk away from a game I would like to play?

Now here's the kicker, and the point you missed.

THE GAME SUPPOSEDLY OFFERS A VERSION WITHOUT ENGINEERS RIGHT ON THE LAUNCHER. Except it's a lie. NPC ships ARE STILL ENGINEERED DESPITE MY INABILITY TO ENGINEER MY OWN IN GAME.

This is my main issue. Don't offer two choices but really only give one.
 

Freelancer Knux

Freelancer Knux
NeilF said:
Talk of sideways digs! This coming from someone who seemingly declares people voicing a different opinion about The Engineers, "...can't be bothered engineering" or "who blame everything under the sun for their lack of skill."

Maybe you just need to accept some people make considered comments that don't align your yours, and ditch the needless digs yourself? *sheesh - kettle black*


Anyway, to reply to your "comment", there's no suggestion The Engineers is not content. Eyebrows are being raised at how worthwhile and productive it is in the game from a balance, outcome and overall development effort POV.

Consider the current Thargoid invasion. Consider how few gameplay assets FD have available to them to make this invasion more interesting and engaging? Can we holo-me into fighters at Capital ships, Platforms and/or station to fend of Thargoid Scouts? Can we Wing up with NPCs to escort convoys through asteroid fields while defending them from Thargoid attacks? Can we open up a Powerplay type view of the Thargoid position and undertake tasks to affect it? Do we see stations under attack and the BGS reeling at the threat of the Thargoids?

No... But with years to prepare for the Thargoid invasion FD have deemed it development time well spent for The Engineers V1 and indeed V2. See the point?
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Please don't get my views confused there is nothing sideways about my digs into people that blame everything and fail to accept and fix their own shortcomings.

I just fail to see your points on power creep but I can see your points in believing FD spend more time on engineering than other gameplay. Whether I agree with them or not is for a thread based on it.
 

Deleted member 110222

D
Mercy Killing said:
Ah, the old "git gud" reply. I was waiting for that. "Git gud" happened 25 years ago. Since then it's been age. Now, 26 years later....my skills have deteriorated. Yours will too, guaranteed. Aging is the one thing we all do. So by your logic I should just stop playing a game I like because I'm no longer good enough to face lowbie engineered ships.

Also, I work 12 hour graveyard shifts. Four days a week. Sure, that leaves me three days, but when you work graveyard shifts, that first day off isn't really a day off because for me, I'm coming home at 7 am. I just don't have the disposable time. So again, I should just walk away from a game I would like to play?

Now here's the kicker, and the point you missed.

THE GAME SUPPOSEDLY OFFERS A VERSION WITHOUT ENGINEERS RIGHT ON THE LAUNCHER. Except it's a lie. NPC ships ARE STILL ENGINEERED DESPITE MY INABILITY TO ENGINEER MY OWN IN GAME.

This is my main issue. Don't offer two choices but really only give one.
Click to expand...

What if I told you that's a cold-hearted business decision meant to tempt you to making a purchase?

Welcome to capitalism!
 

Mercy Killing

Mercy Killing
Un1k0rn said:
What if I told you that's a cold-hearted business decision meant to tempt you to making a purchase?

Welcome to capitalism!
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Except another kicker:


I own Horizons. Purchased it to SUPPORT the game. The one I can no longer play because they ramped the difficulty up too high for me. And falsely offer a version that supposedly does away with Anything post-Horizons.
 

Vorxian

Vorxian
I always said that each ship should have a specific bonus to something, sort of similar to the EVE ships.. for instance you may have an eagle that has a bonus to interdiction or a Viper having bonus to pulse lazers, or Cobra having bonus to beams..... could be utility, that a Keelback has some bonus to mining, or has tractors instead of mining limpets...

that kind of thing

Each ship would then be an ideal tool for a particular task, rather than # of hard points or whatnot. Engineers just then optimize further.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
I would get rid of the Grade 1-5 and just have the special abilities, maybe add some more versions of the main upgrades like long range etc. Keep it at that. Good enough for me.

And I know this will upset a number of people, but I don't care to be honest. It would be a better and less overpowered system, with the weapons more side grade then upgrade.
 

Drelthar

Drelthar
Just stop caring and rebalance it down so it's max of like .... Ten percent gains, or, so that it's side grades instead of flat upgrades.

People will whine whatever is done, just do the best thing for the balance of the game and dont worry about people having a cry about it.
 

krylite

krylite
I don't understand how engineering is still considered so grindy? It's a lot easier than the old system where you needed far more luck and trials to get a good roll. With the greatly expanded material storage, quick rank 1&2, material trader function, the new system seems streamlined to a tenth of the time of the old system to me. And about the so-called power creep. The ED ships in general other than the FSD (sc & hyperjump), imo, are much less powerful than many ships in various sci-fi lore past the second millennium.
 
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EUS

EUS
I've mentioned this many times, so once more won't hurt.
Maximum 3 engineered items allowed on a ship at one time.
 

valbarr

V
If frontier want this game to last forever, they have to realise that to keep people playing, they will have to keep producing new stuff, content, ships etc, and that for people to feel like they are progressing not standing still, older stuff will have to become obsolete to the people who have completed that content.
take wow for example, lvl 110 people have content geared towards them, and they have totally outgrown lvl 60 content, but the lvl 60 content is still there, for the lvl 60 people. i personally wish they had made someone in an anaconda be simply unkillable by someone in an eagle, but made content for each, anaconda people, eagle people. imagine pirates, aliens etc, that would simply destroy an eagle in seconds, but someone in an anaconda would have a chance at attempting.

if i was in a car, i shouldnt have any chance at hurting someone in a tank. in elite, if the car attacks the tank long enough, it would destroy it.
 
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