I don't get the hate for bots, what's really wrong with that?

[varonica]

Can you provide some examples of multiplayer games where botting is accepted?

Hmm, I can, just the one, Atlantica Online. Crafting and gaining XP just involved sitting down somewhere in a safe city, you could sit all day and night crafting and while doing that gain XP, you could walk into a town and just see hundreds of toons just sitting doing nothing, no conversation, no interaction, nothing. Also botting in combat, you could earn combat points while playing normally that allowed you X amount of time to walk away and have your toon fight by itself, usually gave you an hour or so of botting, then five minutes to build the points up and more botting, the entire game was designed around it. You could also send expeditions out that would site and fight over resources.

It is a Korean game, still around but seems to be, as they say, in maintenance mode now, no expansions for years. I played it for a few years before it got all auto-battle, auto-craft and auto-level silly. It's on it's third set of owners now and is just a money gatherer, everything, literally everything costs real money. You don't need to use botting programs because they provided them for you.

Now that's the only example I know and it's now a sad reflection of what it was when I first played, incorporating botting into a game is as far as i can tell an act of desperation to keep a game going for a few more years to pull in a bit more cash. It would be terribly sad if ED went that way.

 

[Midian Cabal]

So? You've just made a problem that was untouchable hard to deal with while modifying the original architecture of the game. That's not a "solution".

Now that's an assumption that's not backed up by any evidence.
There is no real solution to this problem, as you might already know it from other games. It's an evergoing game of cat and mouse.
If bots play in solo, it's impossible to fight them, detect them and report them, unless they're using EDSM or similar software so their routes can be tracked on 3rd party websites.
If they are forced to play in open only, then they can be shot and then they can be easily reported to FDev so they can be banned.

 

[xaisis]

Can you provide some examples of multiplayer games where botting is accepted?

Mu online, the game comes with its own bot.

Played it, so i know what that kind of game design looks like.

And elite fits in well with automation.

 

[Old Duck]

Going back to the title, I don't get the hate for bots because only 2.8% of CMDRs bother with PP for anything but the modules, LOL

 

[Hellfire85]

Isn't botting against the EULA we all had to agree upon?

 

[excalibus]

Botting and sharing your account details with another person so they can log into your account is against the TOS that we all agreed to abide by when we brought the game.

Fdev did make an API for third party programs and websites to access certain game data / logging etc and to access the API legitimately you have to agree to the terms of service for using / developing for the API.

I cannot see how changing the games infrastructure (regarding PP open only) would in any way change botting... As even solo is an ONLINE instance of the game just with your own ship, the botting detection needs to be handled by the client and the games servers, as the servers already have the ability to track and log pretty much every clients actions.

People caught botting - should have their accounts revoked, no refunds given. Once that occurs, people will begin to reconsider the choice to bot...

 

[Floaty Wombat]

People caught botting - should have their accounts revoked, no refunds given. Once that occurs, people will begin to reconsider the choice to bot...

Sorry to burst your bubble, but people who have the money to spend on paid bot-scripts will just buy a new account again. And be at the same level again a week later.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but people who have the money to spend on paid bot-scripts will just buy a new account again. And be at the same level again a week later.

Anyone insane enough to want to grind at that level needs an intervention...

 

[Midian Cabal]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but people who have the money to spend on paid bot-scripts will just buy a new account again. And be at the same level again a week later.

There are ways to uniquely identify workstations and ban them, but I guess that would hurt the sales...

 

[excalibus]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but people who have the money to spend on paid bot-scripts will just buy a new account again. And be at the same level again a week later.

And then when caught again, banned again - buying yet another copy of the game and starting over again... rinse and repeat... more money for frontiers coffers I guess.

So no there was no bubble to burst, quite frankly banning the account without refund once its caught is the solution... If that player then buys another copy and continues their botting ways and gets caught again (assuming if you get caught once chances are you will get caught again) and can continue to afford to rebuy new copies of the game well not much can be done about that, but lets be honest, how many people would carry on botting after a couple of bannings???

 

[Old Duck]

I cannot see how changing the games infrastructure (regarding PP open only) would in any way change botting...

Because then we PvPers who don't give a rip about PP pamphlets would have "fresh meat" to go after. Let the griefers grief the botters, it's a win-win scenario!

 

[excalibus]

Because then we PvPers who don't give a rip about PP pamphlets would have "fresh meat" to go after. Let the griefers grief the botters, it's a win-win scenario!

Are you equating PVP players with being Griefers? That's a bold troll...

 

[Old Duck]

Are you equating PVP players with being Griefers? That's a bold troll...

Since I said "we" PvPers, it's more of a bold boast

On a serious note, I'd happily blow up CMDR bots belonging to enemy powers all day long, and I don't even like PowerPlay! They'll be easy enough to identify. THIS is how you solve the botting problem.

Oh, wait... I'm on PS4. We don't have bots... RATS!!!! Somebody figure out how to write a bot for PS4! You PC gamers get ALL THE FUN!

 

[Midian Cabal]

Ignoring all the examples given in this thread will not win you a convincing argument.

Ignoring the fact that FDev defines them as cheaters won't help you either. I suggest you to contact FDev and persuade them with your convincing arguments to change their Code of Conduct and change their definition of cheating.

 

[Moriarte]

Ignoring all the examples given in this thread will not win you a convincing argument.

He doesn't need to win a convincing argument. He already is on the winning side. His argument is active policy and is ingrained in the game. If you feel differently, present Your argument and we'll see if you can win FD's minds and hearts.

 

[Old Duck]

I do find it interesting that people on this board are so quick to accuse people of cheating. Accusing a gamer of cheating without absolute proof is a red-zone for most serious table jocks.

Is it okay if I accuse NPCs of cheating? Because they do. Though they only cheat half as much I used to believe

 

[Midian Cabal]

I guess I have to say this again. I don't even use a Docking Computer. I am against bottling in ED because I enjoy flying, and it's against the TOS agreement. However, if it wasn't against the TOS, I would have no problem with other people using them.

Further, I do not cheat. I'm a gamer of over 40 years. I'd have to be one miserable sommumabitch to cheat after so many years.

I do find it interesting that people on this board are so quick to accuse people of cheating. Accusing a gamer of cheating without absolute proof is a red-zone for most serious table jocks.

Glad to hear that we share the same attitude. I cheated as a youngster by finding ways to unlimited whatever, but back then games were only single player and that's how I ended up being a software developer.
I use every possible tool possible to reduce tedious and repetitive tasks that tend to kill all the fun in a game. I use a docking computer (although I can land with FA off), because I can have quick glance at forums and Reddit or play with the cat or grab a drink or...
IMHO bots should be the only ones paying attention to that pitiful gameplay called powerplay. Please do mind that I quit when 1.3 hit the server and only recently came back. And yet again FDev failed to use their creativity and problem solving skills to solve the problem, making it only worse. As you can see in the post linked, that accusation of cheating was really well researched and funded.

 

[Moriarte]

I don't have to present an argument to FD in support of bots because they are clearly allowing them by not enforcing the TOS.

I don't bot in ED. I fly. Anytime you wanna test my ability to not use a bot, all you gotta do is ask.

Bunch of freaking luddite scaredy-cats.

No one cares about You, chimp. Test a damn wall if you need testing.

So lets shed a collective tear about FD not caring either way at this point. As if they don't have grand design to implement to care about a bunch of nerds running bots.

I'll get my coat

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Ignoring all the examples given in this thread will not win you a convincing argument.

Obviously black and white answers are rarely correct all the time...... So I would agree bots are not ALWAYS cheats but in ED they are because FD says so.
PS if bots are harmless why do online poker sites ban them?

 

[Morbad]

Beyond that, a few of the poker formats have been solved, so a simple OR bot programmed correctly will win Hold Em over time.

That sounds like a pretty good argument for why they are bad for the game and especially bad for site operators.

By and large, people do not want to play against bots using perfect strategies, who have no human failings, and would not want to be required to operate one to remain competitive. Games are for players, not their automation tools.