I don't like the new ice worlds.

[Deleted member 121570]

Oh, and I feel I should probably leave this here as relevant

New Planet Tech is KILLER of Exploration (all terrain is tiling/repeating/not procedural/random)

UPDATE: Planetary terrain prefabs are now also being discovered to be reused between planets: UPDATE: Looking at the high number of reported planets. I have gone ahead and created an issue tracker for this one. I urge everybody to go ahead and tick "can replicate" with as many examples as...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Agrar Therenus]

Well, someone did write Pride, Prejudice and Zombies! It's a sandbox, but yeah - if they're into closing down emergent opporunities, that's clearly a shift. Some new stuff, lose some old stuff.



Yeah, the old beigeness was bad and it's good they altered it. After that tho, it rocked )

Regardless though, my view is that they've buggered up the balancing and that every new planet just looks boring. I don't think it's more realistic at all, with the smoothed off edges and has gone too far in the flattening. Also, there's literally no reason to go trying to push the envelope of the planetary flight model anymore, given the absence of challenging terrain - and that's a very sad loss of capacity in game. It was cool.

Enjoy the mundane 'realism' I guess! One less challenge in the game.

They're not intentionally making planets more boring. I mean look at our own solar system-- who thinks that's boring? To tone things down is not 'Yoghurtification' as you or someone else put it, and I think that is just bugs and weirdness with textures. I think things have just gone too far the other way, which is no better or worse than Horizons which I think allowed for extremes that look like Christmas tree decorations rather than planets.

I've been looking around for interesting features on planets, and yes, there is a lack of localised variation. When I say that I mean one region where there's a huge canyon, or a gigantic mountain or extinct volcano or something. There are far too many badland areas dotted around. There's also a lack of clear liquid channels created by say lava, or maybe even water if it's an exinct world like Mars.

I don't see why the game can't generate Mars-likes where it likely had a substantial atmosphere and a water cycle billions of years ago.

Well yes planets aren't formed to make challenging competitions for pilots, and I think the game should reflect that. However, planets should by pure rolls of the dice have formations, in specific regions, that are amenable to such challenges. It's an obvious difference but I suspect people aren't contemplating it fully.

Anyway I find that person's lack of confidence in FD being able to make a decent race-way a bit unfair. Why do I bring up racing? Well, I don't see what else is actuall effected by this other than pure exploration of interesting worlds-- which is something I am in agreement with anyway. My disagreement is about what is wrong in details and how it should be addressed.

To some degree the mundane is a natural part of simulations. It's just part of the genre-- it is about the nitty gritty and the full 'real' experience. It isn't like Horizon Zero Dawn which is about action bang and prettiness all in a nice theme park "Overt your eyes from that ugly brick town Jack.". Maybe this is something people also forget?

It's almost neither-here-nor-there me arguing these points anyway, because I think if they cranked up the numbers a bit to generate a few more dramatic features everyone should - in theory - be happy. I don't want to see the old Pomeche back though. That kind of thing should be limited to large asteroids, where there just isn't enough gravity to squash it into a ball or close-to-spherical, which by the way I would like to also see in the game.

Oh yes another thing I don't like is the completely flattened areas around planetary bases. I imagine it's all the headaches of clipping into the buildings that you can now go in, but surely they could've done something.

 

[khalismur]

Must be an unpopular opinion but the "plastic" or "wet/melting ice" in most screenshots is this thread look terrible. Odyssey landable planets will likely not have enough atmospheric pressure for liquids to form. "wet ice" reflections are not realistic at all and look very gooey.

 

[Deleted member 121570]

They're not intentionally making planets more boring. I mean look at our own solar system-- who thinks that's boring? To tone things down is not 'Yoghurtification' as you or someone else put it, and I think that is just bugs and weirdness with textures. I think things have just gone too far the other way, which is no better or worse than Horizons which I think allowed for extremes that look like Christmas tree decorations rather than planets.

I've been looking around for interesting features on planets, and yes, there is a lack of localised variation. When I say that I mean one region where there's a huge canyon, or a gigantic mountain or extinct volcano or something. There are far too many badland areas dotted around. There's also a lack of clear liquid channels created by say lava, or maybe even water if it's an exinct world like Mars.

I don't see why the game can't generate Mars-likes where it likely had a substantial atmosphere and a water cycle billions of years ago.

Well yes planets aren't formed to make challenging competitions for pilots, and I think the game should reflect that. However, planets should by pure rolls of the dice have formations, in specific regions, that are amenable to such challenges. It's an obvious difference but I suspect people aren't contemplating it fully.

Anyway I find that person's lack of confidence in FD being able to make a decent race-way a bit unfair. Why do I bring up racing? Well, I don't see what else is actuall effected by this other than pure exploration of interesting worlds-- which is something I am in agreement with anyway. My disagreement is about what is wrong in details and how it should be addressed.

To some degree the mundane is a natural part of simulations. It's just part of the genre-- it is about the nitty gritty and the full 'real' experience. It isn't like Horizon Zero Dawn which is about action bang and prettiness all in a nice theme park "Overt your eyes from that ugly brick town Jack.". Maybe this is something people also forget?

It's almost neither-here-nor-there me arguing these points anyway, because I think if they cranked up the numbers a bit to generate a few more dramatic features everyone should - in theory - be happy. I don't want to see the old Pomeche back though. That kind of thing should be limited to large asteroids, where there just isn't enough gravity to squash it into a ball or close-to-spherical, which by the way I would like to also see in the game.

Oh yes another thing I don't like is the completely flattened areas around planetary bases. I imagine it's all the headaches of clipping into the buildings that you can now go in, but surely they could've done something.

Of course they aren't formed to make challenging competitions for pilots - they're just planets. It's just somethign people do with them, and could. Using imagination and having fun with what was provided. Fine, you didn't like some aspects, but guess what - them existing didn't impact you, and gave gameplay to others. Your dislike of them as somehow violating your own internal realism meter seems of significantly less importance to me than the fact lots of people spent thousands of hours playing on those things you didn't like. To advocate for their removal on that basis seems rather selfish. Wasn't doin' you any harm but hey - you didn't like the idea so get rid of it?

It doesn't matter anyway. They're gone, lots of us can't play that way anymore, and instead you've got simplified balls of yoghurt that are now just based on identical replicating tiles. Be happy?

Source: https://youtu.be/M0eWawTdt_w

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Must be an unpopular opinion but the "plastic" or "wet/melting ice" in most screenshots is this thread look terrible. Odyssey landable planets will likely not have enough atmospheric pressure for liquids to form. "wet ice" reflections are not realistic at all and look very gooey.

I agree that they are too gooey looking. I wonder how they came to represent that and what materials. Do different ices behave in different ways perhaps. If you just have water ice on earth, it's translucent and reflective even without melting. It's only if there is snow does the albedo climb but the reflectivity goes down. That's why there is such as thing as snow blindness, the albedo is around 0.9.

Here's a selection of RL pictures showing the sun reflecting off water ice/snow

Ice should reflect light.

I must admit to not liking the way it's represented, but would love to know what they were thinking. They may end up being right if it's something other than water ice.

 

[Tee Mcgee]

Rocky ice are worse.

Note the 35 FPS looking at that horrible monstrosity. This is on ultra.

 

[khalismur]

I agree that they are too gooey looking. I wonder how they came to represent that and what materials. Do different ices behave in different ways perhaps. If you just have water ice on earth, it's translucent and reflective even without melting. It's only if there is snow does the albedo climb but the reflectivity goes down. That's why there is such as thing as snow blindness, the albedo is around 0.9.

Here's a selection of RL pictures showing the sun reflecting off water ice/snow

Ice should reflect light.

I must admit to not liking the way it's represented, but would love to know what they were thinking. They may end up being right if it's something other than water ice.

We've had this discussion, fellow commander. Ice reflects like that because on Earth the uppermost layer melts while under the sun, creating a much smoother surface.

On Odyssey planets, that have very low atmospheric pressure, there should be much, much less liquid, if at all. Rending the "wet ice" look impossible. It's much more about the physical state (roughness) of the surface than reflection coefficients of the materials.

The first picture you posted is more like it. That seems to be at a much higer altitude and much colder, meaning much less liquid forming while under the sun. That should be similar to the look of Odyssey planets. Just the second one has the wet look.

 

[Agrar Therenus]

Of course they aren't formed to make challenging competitions for pilots - they're just planets. It's just somethign people do with them, and could. Using imagination and having fun with what was provided. Fine, you didn't like some aspects, but guess what - them existing didn't impact you, and gave gameplay to others. Your dislike of them as somehow violating your own internal realism meter seems of significantly less importance to me than the fact lots of people spent thousands of hours playing on those things you didn't like. To advocate for their removal on that basis seems rather selfish. Wasn't doin' you any harm but hey - you didn't like the idea so get rid of it?

It doesn't matter anyway. They're gone, lots of us can't play that way anymore, and instead you've got simplified balls of yoghurt that are now just based on identical replicating tiles. Be happy?

Source: https://youtu.be/M0eWawTdt_w

You are rather strawmanning my arguments, again.

You speak as if I am simply saying "remove them" despite the fact I have repeatedly said there's no reason why extreme features can't exist in say ice fissures, or in rare occassions on very specific locations on planets. It's kind of ridiculous. Oh and I've seen screenshots of Horizons worlds, Pomeche is just one of them, where at least half the entire planet looks like an intergalactic dog has had his fun with it.

You are deliberately ignoring 90% of what I have been saying, in order to cast me as a grumpy villain "Yes, Beigification and Flattification is the only path! Goodbye racers" That is not in fact what I am arguing.

You don't need something quite as extreme as Pomeche to have a good race track.

 

[Agrar Therenus]

Rocky ice are worse.

Note the 35 FPS looking at that horrible monstrosity. This is on ultra.

It often looks very bad from medium altitudes. There is clearly issues with loading in textures as you close in.

I agree that they are too gooey looking. I wonder how they came to represent that and what materials. Do different ices behave in different ways perhaps. If you just have water ice on earth, it's translucent and reflective even without melting. It's only if there is snow does the albedo climb but the reflectivity goes down. That's why there is such as thing as snow blindness, the albedo is around 0.9.

Here's a selection of RL pictures showing the sun reflecting off water ice/snow

Ice should reflect light.

I must admit to not liking the way it's represented, but would love to know what they were thinking. They may end up being right if it's something other than water ice.

The speed at which ice freezes is a factor. Flash frozen objects look like they are wrapped in clingfilm-- I remember that on one freak weather day and the twigs on the trees actually looked like they were in a perfect plastic coating. I think it's fair to assume some icey worlds are cold enough to do that.

 

[Tee Mcgee]

 

[Tee Mcgee]

 

[Tee Mcgee]

Reminder these are all on ultra

 

[Agrar Therenus]

Yea the textures haven't loaded in properly. That really doesn't count.

The previous one doesn't look great, but then it was rather easy to find equally ugly looking vistas in Horizons.

 

[Tee Mcgee]

 

[Tee Mcgee]

 

[Tee Mcgee]

 

[khalismur]

Do you meet the minimum specs for Odyssey? That looks very potato. But the repeating bright/dark pattern in a bit awkward regardless.

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

I think I drew that on Ms paint. Zoom in

 

[Tee Mcgee]

My rig exceeds the recommended specs.

 

[Deleted member 121570]

You are rather strawmanning my arguments, again.

You speak as if I am simply saying "remove them" despite the fact I have repeatedly said there's no reason why extreme features can't exist in say ice fissures, or in rare occassions on very specific locations on planets. It's kind of ridiculous. Oh and I've seen screenshots of Horizons worlds, Pomeche is just one of them, where at least half the entire planet looks like an intergalactic dog has had his fun with it.

You are deliberately ignoring 90% of what I have been saying, in order to cast me as a grumpy villain "Yes, Beigification and Flattification is the only path! Goodbye racers" That is not in fact what I am arguing.

You don't need something quite as extreme as Pomeche to have a good race track

Erm...ok? You say what you like, and I'll say what I like, and that's how the forum works. I'm not interesting in debate society rules that only apply in your version.
I have no idea why you keep talking about racing though!

I don't actually care what type of Odyssey body has decent surfaces, as long as there are some - icy, icy rocky, rocky, whatever. Currently though, there's not.
Let's hope we can all be happy down the line.

Didn't you like the song?