I don't understand the life support system

[ilo]

I know it has been gamey-fied to the extreme, but still can't get through the rationale of this.

- we have atmosphere in the cockpit.
- we have a life support system as a module.
- but we don't have both working at the same time

- if your canopy blows you use the 'emergency' reserve available, but there is no atmosphere so this reserve is injected into the suit itself?
- If you disable the module, you have the 'emergency' reserve available (depending on your life support module class), so you don't use air from your cockpit but you use it injected in your suit?

Questions that blow my mind:
- if the life support module is the one responsible for the size of the emergency reserve, how come 'emergency reserve' is only working when you disable the module?
- why can't the life support system (the one that sets the size of the 'emergency reserve' fill up this very same 'emergency reserve', its own reserve???
- while the canopy is ok, what does the life support system actually do?
a) if it is supplying oxygen to the cabin and filling up the cockpit atmosphere, why can we breathe without canopy?
b) if it is supplying oxygen to the pilot suite, why can't we have unlimited supply without canopy?

 

[Deleted member 110222]

I think this can be best summed up with the following:

Gameplay. Pay more credits, get better stats. Don't think for a moment that Elite is a simulation on the ship level. It isn't. The ships are pure fantasy. The simulation refers to the galaxy creation.

 

[YinYin]

It's a and b. The reserve isn't connected to the recycler and the recycler goes offline with the module, making the reserve kick in.

I'd guess the reserves are too small for the recycler in case of canopy breach (where you are losing the entire volume from that system).

You would need an additional tiny life support for that.

 

[cyberus]

If I was you I did stopped right there. Trying to find logic in computer game based 1000+ from now and about spaceships has no sense at all. There is no logic at all in a lot of things in this game.... so save you self the trouble .... move on

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

The Life Support module is what supplies atmosphere and a livable temperature within the spacecraft interior (not just the cockpit I presume). The larger the ship the larger class of module this needs to be. The higher the rating the better integrity it has.

Switching off that module (or having it disabled through damage) kicks in the pony bottle of emergency air directly to your suit/helmet. The higher the module rating the more air you get in this emergency mode.

All consistent and perfectly sensible to me.

 

[Genus]

Suspend belief and common sense. It's...easier that way.

 

[YinYin]

Or engage more common sense. How do you expect a giant system to filter your few minutes of air when it's either offline or evacuated?

The only weird thing is that there is no backup system scaled just for the reserve. But at that point it would either overcomplicate or remove any fun to be had with the mechanic.

 

[Ashnak]

...
Questions that blow my mind:
- if the life support module is the one responsible for the size of the emergency reserve, how come 'emergency reserve' is only working when you disable the module?
- why can't the life support system (the one that sets the size of the 'emergency reserve' fill up this very same 'emergency reserve', its own reserve???
- while the canopy is ok, what does the life support system actually do?
a) if it is supplying oxygen to the cabin and filling up the cockpit atmosphere, why can we breathe without canopy?
b) if it is supplying oxygen to the pilot suite, why can't we have unlimited supply without canopy?

If you compare the life support module sizes between various ships, you'll find that those ships that have a large dedicated passenger capacity will require a much larger life support as a pure cargo ship (check e.g. a Beluga - size 8 - vs. a Type-9 - size 5). That implies that this life support is not only responsible for your cabin air, but for all the neccessities on board of your ship:
- air
- water
- food
all of it gets recycled.

In addition to this full blown, infinite duration (as long as you have power) recycling system, you also have a small emergency reserve. The size of this emergency reserve, for convenience, is coupled to the rating of the life support system. Otherwise, you would also need a tiny emergency support module.

When your canopy gets blown (or the main life support is shut down for whatever reason), the emergency support is automatically taking over and supplies your suit only with breathable air for a limited time. Presumably the passenger cabins also have an independent emergency support system.

As for unlimited supply without canopy (from the main life support): no. Simply for safety reasons. The emergency bottle is a fail safe that absolutely has to work under all circumstances. Linking it to the main recycler except for a trigger will introduce too many failure points. A 20th century example might be the regulations for rainwater usage in Germany. Here, it is not permitted to end the refill from the water mains below the water level in the rainwater collection tank, there has to be a pressureless free drop from the mains water outlet to the collection tank - simply so that it is physically impossible if e.g. the water mains pressure drops for any collected rainwater to flow back and contaminate the water mains.

What you can do, though, at least in 2.4, is to swap out the oxygen bottle for a fresh one (life support synthesis). I never tried it, so I don't know if that works while you're breathing from the bottle.

 

[Watcher]

Yeah, I'm not sure how much sense this system makes but as with what Ashnak says you can come up with a fairly reasonable justification.

If we ever get space legs and the ability to do repairs this whole things is going to get interesting. What happens when you are detached from the ship? Perhaps we will be able to purchase grades of suits with potentially for modding? Some have better life support capability and so on. I can't imagine people would be very happy with the low end 5 minutes sort of supplies. So do we then have suit supplies with ships backup as a further fall-back option? Hmm. One for the future anyway

 

[VR Murgle]

I fly a Cutter, am I to believe that a canope breach exposes the entire ship to vacuum? and if not why can't my suit be hooked up to the life support that keeps the rest of my crew alive? or does life support in the whole ship shut down if the cockpit is exposed to vacuum? Am I really flying the spaceship equivalent of the Titanic?

Elite's life support system makes NO logical sense whatsoever.

 

[ilo]

If you compare the life support module sizes between various ships, you'll find that those ships that have a large dedicated passenger capacity will require a much larger life support as a pure cargo ship (check e.g. a Beluga - size 8 - vs. a Type-9 - size 5). That implies that this life support is not only responsible for your cabin air, but for all the neccessities on board of your ship:
- air
- water
- food
all of it gets recycled.

In addition to this full blown, infinite duration (as long as you have power) recycling system, you also have a small emergency reserve. The size of this emergency reserve, for convenience, is coupled to the rating of the life support system. Otherwise, you would also need a tiny emergency support module.

When your canopy gets blown (or the main life support is shut down for whatever reason), the emergency support is automatically taking over and supplies your suit only with breathable air for a limited time. Presumably the passenger cabins also have an independent emergency support system.

As for unlimited supply without canopy (from the main life support): no. Simply for safety reasons. The emergency bottle is a fail safe that absolutely has to work under all circumstances. Linking it to the main recycler except for a trigger will introduce too many failure points. A 20th century example might be the regulations for rainwater usage in Germany. Here, it is not permitted to end the refill from the water mains below the water level in the rainwater collection tank, there has to be a pressureless free drop from the mains water outlet to the collection tank - simply so that it is physically impossible if e.g. the water mains pressure drops for any collected rainwater to flow back and contaminate the water mains.

What you can do, though, at least in 2.4, is to swap out the oxygen bottle for a fresh one (life support synthesis). I never tried it, so I don't know if that works while you're breathing from the bottle.

Still doesn't make sense. So, when the module is running it keeps replenishing the atmosphere. If the module is shut down the reserve kicks in. why can't the life support system refill the reserve? if the canopy is blown the reserve kicks in, why can't the life support system kick in to the suit too?

What is the purpose of the life support system when the canopy is breached? isn't it the same as when the canopy is not breached?

The only explanation is that the 'emergency reserve' is in the suit, and has nothing to do with the ship internals - meaning when the ship doesn't have oxygen your suit still has some, but then.. how come the size of the life support dictates the emergency supply on the suit?

 

[YinYin]

We will probably get EVA gear/backpack for air and thrust. Those commonly last hours.

The few minutes we have might actually be tucked away in our suits right now.

 

[Weps]

Ackchyually, it all starts making perfect sense once you understand how telepresence works.

 

[ilo]

Ackchyually, it all starts making perfect sense once you understand how telepresence works.

muahahaha

 

[Genus]

Ackchyually, it all starts making perfect sense once you understand how telepresence works.

[video=youtube;fg3QpjyuO9s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg3QpjyuO9s[/video]

 

[YinYin]

If the module is shut down the reserve kicks in. why can't the life support system refill the reserve?

Because that risks draining the reserve in case of canopy breach. Also you'd drop cabin pressure in the process, but I suppose you could afford that for a few refills.

if the canopy is blown the reserve kicks in, why can't the life support system kick in to the suit too?

Because it just got evacuated and is too large for the small reserve volume.

how come the size of the life support dictates the emergency supply on the suit?

Simplification and currently having no other purpose for different grades. Is it hard to imagine buying life support with a matching set of suits?

 

[Eidolon]

I gave up on trying to follow logic with some things in ED long ago.
Life Support was one such example. In my experience unless you are aiming to do combat just fit a D grade module and engineer it for lightweight.
Once done you can move on with the game with the module having the least impact on your vessel. I see why it's this way and agree it has it's logical flaws, but there has to be a mechanism that's relatively simple and fun.

 

[YinYin]

What you can do, though, at least in 2.4, is to swap out the oxygen bottle for a fresh one (life support synthesis). I never tried it, so I don't know if that works while you're breathing from the bottle.

It does. Someone even made a full colonia run without life support during that beta.

 

[Aashenfox]

I'll head-canon it for you...

Your life support system's primary job is to recycle the air in the cockpit into re-breathable air. It catalyses other materials from space and by products of engine exhaust to aid this process and keep your cockpit air 'fresh'. It needs the cockpit air to exist to do this, or it has no elements to catalyse oxygen 'from' and no medium to return it 'to' (think carbon dioxide filters in other movies).

Once your canopy is broken, there is no 'air' for the system to process, so it goes to the backup system of supplying X amount of stored oxygen to your helmet mask. You can top up this oxygen by providing the elements the system needs to synthesize more oxygen, as long as those are available.

Lastly, the final function of your life support is to self-destruct the ship on death of the pilot. This prevents 'dead' pilots cratering populated worlds long after death.

Dat workin for ya?

 

[Kaltern]

So how does our supposed lifepod work then? Lore states that upon ship destruction, or imminent pilot death, the pilot is ejected automatically and sent back to the last point of docking. Quite how a pod is able to open a hyperspace window, and jump through many systems all automatically is probably handwavium beyond the scope of this topic.. I can only assume that pods have a self contained life support system, very efficient due to the pod size...

Or... we're just plugged into the Matrix.