I Just Can't Return to Exploring Until Frontier Fix and Buff X and Y... 🙁

Well I'm almost home from my abortive attempt to traverse around the entire galaxy with my fleet and carrier for a couple of years. I'm about 10,000ly from the bubble and I'll be back in a few days. I've realised though that I just can't even attempt this journey again until Frontier acknowledge there are problems and issues with both Carriers and exploration, and implement some changes and fixes. This post follows on from some others I've written in the last week or so, but I wanted to bring it all together in a single place.

FIRST, THE PROBLEM WITH CARRIERS

There is really only one thing wrong with carriers, and that's refuelling. Opinions in these forums and on Facebook tend to be split between "It's easy and okay to fuel a carrier out in the black" and "It's very difficult to fuel a carrier and changes need to be made". For me I believe it boils down to how much and how often you game, and how comfortable and happy you are with mining. For myself I'm not a natural miner. I find it tedious and monotonous, and also quite difficult when it comes to activities such as sub-surface mining (which of course is where Tritium is to be found).

Carriers need an alternative fuel source. This could be pretty much anything at this point, but just as there are two ways to fuel a ship, there should be two ways to fuel a carrier. How would this be done? There are several ways that have jumped out at players in the Elite Dangerous community...
  • The carrier being able to scoop from a star or gas giant
  • Crafting from materials gathered on planetary landings in an SRV
  • The establishment of bases (NPC and perhaps Player owned) out in the black where Tritium can be purchased
These are just three possible solutions, all of which fit with current game mechanics. Only when it's possible for every type of player in Elite to easily fuel a carrier will they be suitable for exploration. I know Frontier wanted to make mining more meaningful, but this doesn't mean everybody wants to mine.

I would like to add a note here to the people who have said that "Carriers are not intended for / suitable for exploration". There are two issues here. Firstly when Frontier first advertised carriers they specifically promoted exploration as being one of the purposes for them. Also during the beta, players who wanted to use a carrier to explore were highly vocal, resulting in Frontier adding universal cartographics as an optional service. Frontier can't then say they didn't know people would want to use carriers for this purpose.

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SECOND, THE PROBLEM WITH EXPLORATION

Exploration is dull, let's face it. With 400 billion stars in the galaxy it's been clear since the early days of Elite Dangerous that the mechanics of stars and systems work very differently inside the bubble to outside it. This will be for reasons of database sizes and manageability, which is fair enough. Slowly we have seen additional areas get more love such as around Sagittarius A*, Beagle Point, and of course Colonia.

For the rest of the galaxy though there's not much to see and do. Some notable stellar phenomena were added, but only inside nebulae. The rest of the galaxy is fairly pedestrian. But one of the downsides with this is that anything we might take for granted as being common inside the bubble, such as double and triple mining hotspots, alien and interesting sites and phenomena are either incredibly rare and difficult to find, or just don't exist at all.

When it comes to features such as double and triple hotspots, the problem is further compounded by the fact that these are all indexed and catalogued inside the bubble by websites such as Inara, EDDB, and EDSM. Outside of the bubble, and outside of the popular areas mentioned already, there's nothing. You're just left to get lucky, and with 400 billion stars the chances are very slim indeed.

So exploration needs improving. We need additional stellar phenomena such as comets and pulsars, and notable stellar phenomena both in space and on planets as can be found in the bubble such as plants and the like. Explorers also need to be able to encounter the occasional other NPC explorer and wrecked and abandoned ships both in space and planetside. These are all things that will exist in "the real world" so they should be in the game.

Some commanders have also suggested missions spawned by scanning data points on wrecked vessels, that can lead to the discovery of notable phenomena, unusual star systems, and perhaps even a long-abandoned Thargoid or Guardian base or ship. Let's face it, these races would want to explore the galaxy as well, and there is already a Guardian ruins site half way to Colonia.

IN SUMMARY

To wrap all this up into a neat package then it's safe to say that as things currently stand, exploration is dull, and exploration in a carrier is extraordinarily difficult for many. I have wanted to take my fleet on a grand tour of the galaxy since I first began playing the game in the initial beta, but as things currently stand I just think it's a wasted opportunity. There are too many barriers to long-range and long-term exploration being enjoyable. So come on Frontier... you know this can be fixed.
 
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To wrap all this up into a neat package then it's safe to say that as things currently stand, exploration is dull, and exploration in a carrier is extraordinarily difficult for many. I have wanted to take my fleet on a grand tour but as things currently stand I just think it's a wasted opportunity. There are too many barriers to long-range and long-term exploration being enjoyable. So come on Frontier... you know this can be fixed.
Enjoy your wait! Don't worry - we'll be out there enjoying the game while you ..... wait :)
 
It is great that you are attempting all of this. However surely you can see that you are attempting something extreme, that needs coordination. Have you checked in with these guys?

Agree about Stella Phenomena, although there must millions/billions left to find? Also deep space copy/paste nebulae is inexcusable imo. Despite all that, my last trip was very enjoyable.

 
Hmm, so you need exploration made morre interesting and carrier refuelling to be easier, before you undertake your mission in and FD, and I guess in a normal ship as you commented on exploration as well. Unfortuanely FD cannot make exploration more interesting over night. The only thing they have done quickly, over the life of the game, is to alter the radius of various POIs. Anything requiring dev effort is probably on hold until after next year.

In terms of FC re-fuelling, I think you might have to go a long way to convince FD, as the firtst patch after FD release purposefully made refulelling carriers harder, so I am not sure that FD are anywhere near the same page as you on that.

Simon
 
There is really only one thing wrong with carriers, and that's refuelling. Opinions in these forums and on Facebook tend to be split between "It's easy and okay to fuel a carrier out in the black" and "It's very difficult to fuel a carrier and changes need to be made".

You seem to have missed the "don't mine it, buy it" opinion. Admittedly a bit of a problem if you're attempting a circumnavigation, but for most exploration trips this is viable. A Carrier can carry enough fuel to get pretty much anywhere in a straight line out from the Bubble or Colonia, and also enough to get back from most of the galaxy.

Otherwise, it does seem that Frontier have cooperative gameplay in mind: either a team of miners, or multiple tritium-tanker Carriers for refuelling. I have 3 accounts, I will probably end up getting 3 Carriers and using 2 as tankers.
 
I have little sympathy for the OP, sorry.

If the procedurally generated galaxy is not enough on it's own for a player, no amount of extra things to find added in a plausible way will be enough either.

When Atmospherics come along eventually that will open up new opportunities for FDev to add assets to be found, then after a few weeks most will be discovered & those looking for new assets will be bored again, with no more worlds to conquer.

A carrier is an incredibly powerful tool, it is entirely understandable that it comes with a cost, and many, many players have said that they enjoy mining for itself & not simply because it can pay so much & gives them a feeling of progression.

I am still aghast that the ADS was pointlessly removed when tools & gameplay like this are added and it is still not entertaining enough of a challenge for some.
 
I'm very much looking forward to my next exploration trip. There are loads of things I haven't seen yet. Sorry to tell you, but I don't have a problem with exploration or FCs. Not going to complain if/when FD adds more stuff, but in the meantime, I still haven't found most of what they've already added...
 
I think Fleet Carriers were made hard to refuel in the void, so they wouldn't become the be-all / end-all of ED's exploration.

They're still an amazing tool for exploration, personally I'm loving them, I even fell back in love with exploration after a quite lengthy and very unfriendly divorce. FCs changed the whole way I play the game and allowed me to respec most of my fleet and outfitting.

I think it's good that they have some kind of limitation to prevent them from being uber-meta exploration ships. That being said, I'm perfectly fine with the 17 minute cooldown between jumps, and with the fact they're hard to refuel in the fringes of the galaxy, although I wouldn't mind if getting tritium by mining would become just a little bit easier, but not so easy that I suddenly wouldn't have to care about the fuel levels onboard. I like having to care about fuel, and risk getting stranded (and having to mine) if I'm careless.

You can still get to the far reaches, either by covering part of the distance with a carrier and then launching an autonomous exploration craft for the rest of the journey, or if you really, really want to get to the furthest, previously unreachable areas with the carrier, you'll have to do the extra mile and mine. A lot. Seems fair IMO.

TL;DR; Even though exploration is the top reason why I have a fleet carrier (and the main reason why I love it), I am also glad it has limitations. Seems quite balanced IMO.
 
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Deleted member 38366

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Well, if I was to be able to i.e.

  • deploy Automated Mining Rigs on Icy (or Rocky Ice) Planets and extract Tritium via Planetary Mining
  • or assign NPC Crew(s) a Mining Rig of mine and send them to a Tritium Hotspot to have them return with at least a little bit (an assistance)

... I sure wouldn't complain.

A Carrier out of Fuel in Deep Space isn't a showstopper - but indeed it won't go anywhere fast anymore.
Those who plan to move a Carrier beyond its internal Fuel Reserves basically need a small Squadron/Group, otherwise it's hardly feasible alone if time is any factor.
(if repeated and longer Mining Campaigns are disliked, then all bets are off anyway)
 
I partially agree with the OP.

FCs are just not for explorers imho, well not for me anyway, I can't/won't speak for others.

That we need more engaging stuff to find in the deep black is something I agree with though.
After the umpteenth brain tree or bark mound discovery is starting to get a bit monotonous, short stories like the tipoffs you get sometimes but in the form of a crashed ship or beacon that lead to alien ruins or some special biological would be cool imho.
 
The bit that's broken is having tell the hanger crew to load up your ship with Tritium from the Fleet Carrier cargo, only tell them to immediately take it off again and take it to the Tritium depot for refueling. To be able to remotely order a refuel from the cargo to the Tritium depot makes a lot more sense. After all, why do we pay upkeep to a crew who can't manage the transfer of fuel all by themselves.
 
Otherwise, it does seem that Frontier have cooperative gameplay in mind: either a team of miners, or multiple tritium-tanker Carriers for refuelling. I have 3 accounts, I will probably end up getting 3 Carriers and using 2 as tankers.
So, FC are not for individual commanders? I got the distinct impression that they were. As a player that does not play with a group of others, I find the decision by FD to make tritium mining more tedious, pretty much a deal breaker. Also making SSM the best way the get tritium is a bad decision. It feels like you have to work that much harder to get the fuel you need.

I'm betting you will see many commanders with a change in heart in a few months once the reality of being thousands of LY out and massive hours of mining ahead of them. But, hay, to each their own. I with you the best.
 
So, FC are not for individual commanders? I got the distinct impression that they were. As a player that does not play with a group of others, I find the decision by FD to make tritium mining more tedious, pretty much a deal breaker. Also making SSM the best way the get tritium is a bad decision. It feels like you have to work that much harder to get the fuel you need.

I'm betting you will see many commanders with a change in heart in a few months once the reality of being thousands of LY out and massive hours of mining ahead of them. But, hay, to each their own. I with you the best.

This ^
 
If just 50 FCs out in the black has 10.000t of Tr for sale you can circumvent the galaxy several times for years before you ever have to deploy a mining laser. ;)
 
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