I just don't get it - baffled and on the verge of uninstall - Yes I said it!

[Nutter]

This thread is funny considering Sandro has been talking about further developping exploration lately.

I'd say well timed, not funny...

Last thing we want is features we don't want, plus I would be happy if they fixed the items in the OP before adding more features. What happened to the days where Devs would throw around ideas on the forum and we would discuss.... really miss that..

 

[Rob At Work]

As far as a Rage Quit goes this thread has promise (and he/she's a software dev type too..!)

 

[Nutter]

As far as a Rage Quit goes this thread has promise (and he/she's a software dev type too..!)

Not a rage quit at all... more of a slow heat death

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Maybe. The BGS is at least 'a reason' though .. (I like to support the NASTIEST sounding corps and religious sects, all else must die and I'll find them, wherever they might be hiding! lol).

The BGS and minor factions is a reason, but they could do with some serious upgrading as well.

Yep, unfamiliar 'to me' .. of course that is, yes.

I wonder if it's an obsession with 'discovered by' tagging that leads (in some sense) to seeing long range as the only exploring in the game. Going back to mining for example .. I do that beyond the bubble edge and it needs exploring (possibly more accurately described as 'surveying') to # find that metallic ring system # make sure it's pretty # make sure it's in reasonable range of some good markets .. and so on. It's relatively short range, you don't need a souped up FSD, it's survey .. but still exploring (for me it is, anyway).

You could have a point here.

Still .. all occupations should have a drawback imho. (If you're a pirate you'll be wanted, so on and etc). If your game of choice is 'discovered by' tags (and bearing in mind you'll be tagged in the game for ever and a day) then maybe brain melt is the price you should be paying!? (half kidding ofc)

Well the drawback is surely financial. Even with the more money available it is still the least paying not including passanger missions.

Not really disagreeing, though I'd temper that by saying would be good to have 'impoved tools' because basically there are tools, just basic ones. You also need the full range of things to discover too though of course and .. I made the same point earlier .. it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. (What are you going to discover exactly, with these cool new tools?). I'd rather Frontier stick to guns if they need to and make sure they have run out the broadest possible range of object classifications than (if you like, give in to demands) and improve the tools .. but not broaden the range of discoverable things. They both need to come together or this discussion will go round and round .. we have the tools now but Frontier, improve the content!! lol.

Well, yeah. You need to make sure you develop the content to go with the tools. Things like material hotspots on planet, with the rare stuff in hard to reach areas would be a way. We shall see what happens.

 

[Nutter]

Hi Everyone, whe have some great news, were are going to do a interactive live event where we discuss gameplay improvments for 3.0 .. Look forward to your suggestions and feedback on our thoughts.... This Thursday it's Mining, then each week we will cover another role.

Order of events - Mining, Exploring, PewPew, Trade, Pirate, Bounty Hunting.....

#SoundOfAHarp

Wake up... Wake up! ... Sorry back in the room

 

[Trafalgar Law]

Yet some other people are also suggesting dropping probes (as if that were somehow different than hitting a honk button, eg one-button-press mechanics). Personally I think the whole Probe idea makes the mistake of kicking the can down the road and only exchanges the honk button for a deploy-probe button. There is no added gameplay value from probes. The only cool thing added here would be a probe launching animation, and maybe a passive readout. Now if there was an active readout, were the player used the probe as a manual sensor, that would be something, but why take the extra time-sink step? Why not just use ship board sensors and ship-board readouts?

That depends on what you do with the probes. I agree that replacing the current scan mechanics with probes would be pointless, but it should be possible to provide additional levels of gameplay using probes.

E.g. You scan the system as normal and then proceed to do a detailed surface scan, this could flag up areas of interest (lifesigns detected, unususual reading, high mineral concentrations etc.) , you could then launch a probe to further refine that area of interest and tell you what is there (What type of lifeforms, vulcanism, what types of minerals and % etc.). Another additional level of gameplay would be recovering the probes, these things shouldn't just transmit the data but you should need to recover the probes, even if this just uses the cargo scoop mechanic it would still require you to fly the spaceship and do something more than press one button. Alternatively a specific mechanic could be used to recover the probe, although that could end up being just another minigame and not really adding much.

Probes could also be used to allow us to interact with planet types that we can't currently land on. These probes could again bring back specific data on what's on those planets, such as biological samples, soil samples or data on Alien activity (if present). This data could then be used to determine whether or not some planets could be suitable for colonisation. Ideally this type of data could then be used to trigger other activities within the game e.g. If the system you scanned is close enough you could receive missions (once you've turned in the data) to return and take more scans, missions to bring scientists to the system, a community goal could be triggered to build a colonisation ship, the minor faction could provide combat missions to prevent other factions jumping their claim, other factions could try to stop the coloisation process through pirating supplies and so on. With a bit of thought that one discovery could be used to create a wealth of gameplay that could potentially encompass the entire playerbase.

 

[Ziljan]

Which is what the detailed surface scanner should be doing - giving you waypoints to 'hot' zones - Not saying - There is intresting stuff down there somewhere - Good Luck!

Indeed!!

That depends on what you do with the probes. I agree that replacing the current scan mechanics with probes would be pointless, but it should be possible to provide additional levels of gameplay using probes.

E.g. You scan the system as normal and then proceed to do a detailed surface scan, this could flag up areas of interest (lifesigns detected, unususual reading, high mineral concentrations etc.) , you could then launch a probe to further refine that area of interest and tell you what is there (What type of lifeforms, vulcanism, what types of minerals and % etc.). Another additional level of gameplay would be recovering the probes, these things shouldn't just transmit the data but you should need to recover the probes, even if this just uses the cargo scoop mechanic it would still require you to fly the spaceship and do something more than press one button. Alternatively a specific mechanic could be used to recover the probe, although that could end up being just another minigame and not really adding much.

Probes could also be used to allow us to interact with planet types that we can't currently land on. These probes could again bring back specific data on what's on those planets, such as biological samples, soil samples or data on Alien activity (if present). This data could then be used to determine whether or not some planets could be suitable for colonisation. Ideally this type of data could then be used to trigger other activities within the game e.g. If the system you scanned is close enough you could receive missions (once you've turned in the data) to return and take more scans, missions to bring scientists to the system, a community goal could be triggered to build a colonisation ship, the minor faction could provide combat missions to prevent other factions jumping their claim, other factions could try to stop the coloisation process through pirating supplies and so on. With a bit of thought that one discovery could be used to create a wealth of gameplay that could potentially encompass the entire playerbase.

Again, why send a probe that can't transmit data to a surface that you're just going to have to go down to collect the data? Why not go yourself in the first place?

Nah. Probes are only fun if they're manual, or being sent off to their doom inside gas giants black holes or Venus type planets. Or both. Otherwise they're just middle-men, or automated ways to sap yet more gameplay away from players by replacing us with AI.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I'm growing so incredibly tired of The Beige Agenda the OP is partial to.

I vote uninstall.

 

[Rakaposhi]

Since then you have slowly but surely degraded your work (FACT)

Stopped reading there (FACT).

 

[babelfisch]

Mass Effect 2 had probes and it sucked (FACT).

 

[Trafalgar Law]

Indeed!!



Again, why send a probe that can't transmit data to a surface that you're just going to have to go down to collect the data? Why not go yourself in the first place?

Nah. Probes are only fun if they're manual, or being sent off to their doom inside gas giants black holes or Venus type planets. Or both. Otherwise they're just middle-men, or automated ways to sap yet more gameplay away from players by replacing us with AI.

You'd recover the probe in space and then decide whether it's worth landing. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The SUV is far more for exploration than pew
SUV is not linked to any role. You might as well list every ship in the game because you could explore with them

Barnacles
One feller finds them after spending hours scouring the terrain, others visit as tourists. Be still my beating exploration heart.

All the vacuum life forms
Say what?

Everything to do with Colonia
Colonia is now a breeding ground for PMFs, not exploration

Neutron Stars
Granted

Explorer passengers
Taxi driving, not exploration

Fumaroles and geysers
See barnacles

Megaships
Say what?

Asteroid bases
Explain?

Guardian ruins
One guy finds, other guys are tourists

Thargoids have so far been all exploration
Excellent joke your honour!

No exploration content, yeah right.

Not no. Little exploration content.

Your list is a complete load of debatable items

 

[sollisb]

As far as a Rage Quit goes this thread has promise (and he/she's a software dev type too..!)

It must be in the software veins because I'm pretty much int he same boat. But, in the Pew pew area.

I'v about 2000 hours on ED, and all I've seen really is the game degrading rather than improving. Everything that has been added has either a limited window of usefulness, or is hidden behind random dice rolls.

Exploration;
The Galaxy map has been 'd for me as a VR user. It was perfectly fine before 2.3 dropped and now it's a mess. I have to choose certain screen dimensions just for it to work at all.

The addition of the station orientation has added nothing. Everyone with a few hours of play under their belt knew to approach from planet side.

The addition of Beluga liners has added a whole level of frustration of entering and exiting stations. Their AI is pathetic. They just lumber on in the centre of the grill regardless. And then they'll even ram you if you stop and wait. Which also incurs the wrath of the station controller!! Pathetic design, pathetic coding.

Combat;
Geez, this one has gotten so bad it's the last straw.

* Ships attacking you before you scan? Why did they add that?
* Federal ships firing plasmas all over the place! Why did they add that? When they hit me, I'm not allowed to fire back?
* Ships attacking and then boosting away? That just add game play frustration! Why add it?
* Ships disappearing off radar and then reappearing with full shields?
* Ships waking out? Why?
* It seems every ship now has rockets! And with unlimited ammunition!
* It seems NPC ships can now carry more weapons than there player counter parts! Saw a cobra the other night with 6 hardpoints!
* An obvious huge reduction of NPC spawns.
* Ships now have mega shields! I've emptied an entire bank of Huge beams onto a ship (Master level) and it's only lost one ring of shields?
* Ships use silent running, can still use weapons and boost to their hearts content, and then come back with shields? !!

I seriously believe that the people who make the design decisions in FD do not play the game. There is no reason for these issues other than to frustrate the player.

FD need to understand, ED is a GAME not a job!! Not a simulator. It's a GAME. And if the game is not fun for me, then I don't invest.

 

[SpacialKatana]

But I can't shake the feeling that you guys are missing out on so much of the rest of the game. Exploring the vastness of the galaxy is compelling stuff, but it's only a fraction of 1% of the actual gameplay and you guys are really missing out due to such a narrow focus.

Shake it b/c believe me when I say I've sampled EVERYTHING the game has to offer, even ranked 5 in PP for Bubblegum shields. My focus is narrow, on your specalative comment at present. Don't assume anything about anyone, it's simply naive.

 

[DCLXVI your God]

Why "unfortunately"? The future of exploration looks bright, and there is plenty of time to get old and new people back into Elite. And tbh, it's not like the game is hurting for players atm. The galaxy is plenty lively.

Tbh, my only worry is that exploration will entice so many people to leave the bubble that meeting people in Open will be a chore. But if they fix Multicrew networking and benefits, and/or give some faster travel options (via thargoid tech etc) then it won't be a huge issue. And perhaps more significantly, if they make the exploration mechanic compelling enough, then simply going to nearby unknown systems, and even known systems, should be fun.

Because, after having spent some time out there, it's easier and easier to be aware of the shortcomings.
And that is indeed unfortunate. [yesnod]

Lot's of beauty out there.
But, as you have pointed out; things are not exactly perfect.

I recently upgraded to a Nvidia 1080 Ti.
And the only game that did not look much better, is this game.
Which is only sad.
Really, really sad.

Now, things are, of course, looking pretty good, non the less.
But still.

 

[TopCat160]

The addition of the station orientation has added nothing. Everyone with a few hours of play under their belt knew to approach from planet side.

This ^

* Ships disappearing off radar and then reappearing with full shields?
* Ships use silent running, can still use weapons and boost to their hearts content, and then come back with shields? !!

And these ^

And when they wake out, you chase them and they're not there. Or if they are there they have full shields and 100% hull, when they were down to 5% a minute ago. And when you chase them and they're not there, you go back and they respawn at the original planet. With 100% everything, obvs.

Much as I like the game, these particular elements are eye-rollingly bad.

I don't imagine they're all that easy to fix, but that's no excuse for such lamentable cartoonishness.

 

[Mengy]

Your concept of "exploration" is very different from most explorers. Allow me to elaborate on your list:

• The SUV is far more for exploration than pew - No, explorers can only use the SRV to sightsee and collect jump mats, that's it. There are huge amounts of salvage, combat, and mission content in game for the SRV, which while awesome, is not exploration content but bubble content.
• Barnacles - Zero tools to find them, and they are only found near the bubble. 99.9% of the galaxy is free of barnacles.
• All the vacuum life forms - No, zero tools to find them, and they are just eye candy. I agree they have potential to be great exploration content, but they aren't in their current state.
• Everything to do with Colonia - Not exploration content, but I admit Colonia is useful as a hopping point for explorers. But it's turned out to just be a mini bubble which is no different to explorers than the bubble itself except for it's location.
• Neutron stars - This one I agree with 100%. Neutron jumps are my favorite thing added to the game since 2.0 and are extremely useful to explorers.
• Explorer passengers - Passengers aren't truly exploration, they are sightseeing, although I do admit they can be fun to fly and can be used as reasons to do actual exploration along the way. I don't consider passengers as exploration content, but I agree they can be a nice diversion for explorers to partake in. My second favorite thing added to the game since 2.0.
• Fumaroles and geysers - Zero tools to find them, and they are just eye candy. I agree they have potential to be great exploration content, but they aren't in their current state.
• Megaships - How exactly? 99% bubble content with very little interaction, a few are like flying starports, not exploration content at all. Generation ship possibly, but for bubble explorers, 99.9% of the galaxy is devoid of them. Now if we could find lost megaships all over the galaxy, THEN we'd have something here!
• Asteroid bases - Bubble expansions, not exploration content, although they are handy locations for explorers to make use of for certain.
• Guardian ruins - Story content. Not exploration content, but more Canonn group content, or the story players. Again this can't be found in 99.9% of the galaxy.
• Thargoids have so far been all exploration - not at all, they can only be found between the bubble and Maia, 99.9% of the galaxy is Thargoid free

Your definition of exploration content is askew, so lets define it:

"Exploration content - Content which commanders can find out in deep space while exploring systems and interact with either by scanning or some other new mechanics."

Key word being deep space. Exploration content would be things you can find all over the galaxy, not just where the main story dictates it to be, and not in the bubble, and not where Galnet tells us to go. Things to discover and do while out exploring the unknown, not colonized space. Geysers/fumeroles are the closest we have ever gotten to actual exploration content, but they are pure eye candy and we have no tools to find them, so they could stand much improvement. I would consider Neutron jumps to be exploration content, ironically though they were a bug that the exploration community had to fight tooth and nail just to keep in the game, so the fact that the best thing added for exploration was a mistake is rather telling! Many people consider planet surfaces as exploration content but that really doesn't count, it's potential exploration content, but it's currently very empty. It would be like combat zones being added to the game but devoid of any ships to shoot at, no one would consider that as "combat content" yet so many people consider the empty planet surfaces in deep space to be "exploration content". So while surfaces can be fun to drive around and go sightseeing it's not content, it's content potential.

 

[Trafalgar Law]

The ships disappearing off radar are using heat sinks. The reason they come back with full shields is that they're probably using a SCB at the same time as the heat sink. The AI doesn't use silent running.

 

[sollisb]

The ships disappearing off radar are using heat sinks. The reason they come back with full shields is that they're probably using a SCB at the same time as the heat sink. The AI doesn't use silent running.

Untrue. I've checked lots of ships using this, and none of them had Heat Sink launchers...

Also.. If my shields go... And I use a heat sink, and silent running... fine.. I certainly can't use a SCB to magically get back my shields.. And in fact! I have to come out of SR to start regenning shields?

No.. the NPC AI cheats top hell and back, and for no other reason than to frustrate the player. And that is not a good business idea..

 

[timbero]

Untrue. I've checked lots of ships using this, and none of them had Heat Sink launchers...

Also.. If my shields go... And I use a heat sink, and silent running... fine.. I certainly can't use a SCB to magically get back my shields.. And in fact! I have to come out of SR to start regenning shields?

No.. the NPC AI cheats top hell and back, and for no other reason than to frustrate the player. And that is not a good business idea..

I've seen plenty of NPCs use heat sinks and drop off the scanner, due to them losing heat. And I've yet to see them use silent running.