I know it's been asked for before but please..........some form of storage!

[MickyG1982]

OK, so you have no proofs about it, and still want me to research about some b s you posted on the forum. You post a link from alpha where there is no info about devs saing they will never introduce cargo storage or why they didn't, and you cal me lazy. Maybe you should go and search those info you said and post it here, and don't be lazy? Don't expect to convince anyone by making false statements.

Lets put it this way, rather than the materials that you collect now for engineering the old model had you running around the galaxy collecting cargo that you then needed to exchange for engineering. Players were literally screaming for cargo storage then because if you had cargo you had to protect said cargo & couldn't change to a fully combat capable ship. In fact, because we had cargo on board we were far more likely to get interdicted by pirates too, & end up losing said cargo as our ships were not really prepared

Rather than give us cargo storage, they changed engineering so we no longer had to store the items at all. They changed a core mechanic of the game rather than make a small but significant change, that's how much the development team do not want cargo storage.

Oh &:

Rented cargo storage at stations

I've been thinking and I would love to have this. An ability to rent cargo storage at a station to store cargo in for later trading. Like when you find some rare commodities, but don't want to run 120+ ly away to trade 10 tonnes just now, but save it for later and maybe accumulate rare...

forums.frontier.co.uk

ED design team: plea for discussing comodity storage

Hi Sandro and Mike - and fellow commanders! I know you have said on record that regular commodity storage is unlikely to arrive at ED due of potential exploitative nature of it. However, we have never heard full list of arguments - and I feel lot of those can be argued away with increased cost...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Tunstan]

That the thing. Players do make mistakes. It adds risk to the game which is fun. It brings Oh I am in a heat of trouble. Oh, what the hell do I do now? It not Elite easy. It called Elite Dangerous. After you live that risk you start using common sense and you start thinking ahead and you don't make those same mistakes.

From the perspective of ED as a game (which it is) this makes perfect sense, and is true regardless.

However, viewing ED as a simulation this kind of thing breaks the illusion. If, for example, the mission is to transport medical supplies to prevent an outbreak, but the pilot loads the entire supply in one go and uses a ship that can't land at the destination. It's seems unreasonable that now the only option is to fail the mission; now the people will never get the much needed medicine.

Maybe it's just my perspective, but like I said before I don't think that it's unreasonable for this solution to allow someone to correct it, and anyone is welcome to disagree with me.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

Stop thinking the game is a stupid MMO where prices are the same. Elite dangerous has a Buying and selling simulation in the background. Sometimes it causes booms sometimes it causes a bust. Why are you asking for an exploit? It because you and others are not using common sense.

Lestat, would you please stop constantly strawmanning the argument.

"Stop thinking the game is a stupid MMO where prices are the same." - I don't. I never said I did. What incited you to invent this falsehood?

I don't know what you think an exploit is, but I'm going to try to give a loose definition here with regards to video games.
An exploit would be the use of a mechanic or feature in the game, in ways, or for purposes other than intended or accounted for by the developers, and from which a benefit is usually accrued.

Now, what I and some others are suggesting, is that cargo storage at stations should be implemented as a feature, and that it should allow players to stockpile commodities at any particular station for later sale to that same station, or to be manually delivered elsewhere by the commander. The request is that this be a deliberate feature, intended to be used in this way, and accounted for by the developers. Therefore, it would not be an exploit, but a deliberate feature designed to allow players to impact the BGS, just like they impact the BGS in other ways.

I understand that you would not like that to be a deliberate feature, but it's not a violation of common sense to disagree with you.

@yianniv has a variant on this, in which you can't actually sell the cargo to the station you have it stored at. Personally I find that restriction to be wholly artificial, and I actually want the game to allow this, but at least that variant means you can't use the storage feature to game the BGS, yet you still appear to be opposed to it.

Start using common sense when you play a game. You see a mission with a high reward. you accept it. Being that child that does not take the time to read the risk of that mission. Then whine after being attacked and return to base. When need storage because the mission too hard for your trade ship and you need your combat ship. All because of it too hard. Reason why. You did not read the mission.

Who is the fault in this problem? YOU.

And that was Strike 3.

This is not about a failure to properly read mission information. Let me repeat that. This is not about a failure to properly read mission information.
This is about wanting a more convenient way to deal with ship switching and cargo at stations, as an improvement to QoL in the game.

Let me give this to you in an analogy.

I live in a two story house, but to get to the upper floor, I currently have to climb a rope.
Now, I know how to climb a rope safely. I carefully read the rope-climbing manual you see, and I'm quite fit.
However, I'm now thinking of putting in a staircase instead of the rope, because getting the furniture up there is not very convenient using the rope, and it's adversely affecting my quality of life at home.

In this analogy, if I came to you about having a staircase installed, you would tell me to read the rope-climbing manual carefully, and use common sense when trying to get furniture onto the upper floor using the rope, so that I don't try to climb the rope while holding an armchair, so that I don't then whine and complain when I drop and damage the armchair.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

From the perspective of ED as a game (which it is) this makes perfect sense, and is true regardless.

However, viewing ED as a simulation this kind of thing breaks the illusion. If, for example, the mission is to transport medical supplies to prevent an outbreak, but the pilot loads the entire supply in one go and uses a ship that can't land at the destination. It's seems unreasonable that now the only option is to fail the mission; now the people will never get the much needed medicine.

Maybe it's just my perspective, but like I said before I don't think that it's unreasonable for this solution to allow someone to correct it, and anyone is welcome to disagree with me.

If poor UI options for switching ships at a station is considered gameplay or added risk just because it causes inconvenient situations, then all standards are out the door.

 

[Atol]

Lets put it this way, rather than the materials that you collect now for engineering the old model had you running around the galaxy collecting cargo that you then needed to exchange for engineering. Players were literally screaming for cargo storage then because if you had cargo you had to protect said cargo & couldn't change to a fully combat capable ship. In fact, because we had cargo on board we were far more likely to get interdicted by pirates too, & end up losing said cargo as our ships were not really prepared

Rather than give us cargo storage, they changed engineering so we no longer had to store the items at all. They changed a core mechanic of the game rather than make a small but significant change, that's how much the development team do not want cargo storage.

Oh &:

Rented cargo storage at stations

I've been thinking and I would love to have this. An ability to rent cargo storage at a station to store cargo in for later trading. Like when you find some rare commodities, but don't want to run 120+ ly away to trade 10 tonnes just now, but save it for later and maybe accumulate rare...

forums.frontier.co.uk

ED design team: plea for discussing comodity storage

Hi Sandro and Mike - and fellow commanders! I know you have said on record that regular commodity storage is unlikely to arrive at ED due of potential exploitative nature of it. However, we have never heard full list of arguments - and I feel lot of those can be argued away with increased cost...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Thank you MickyG1982.
I did like what Mike Evans said in this one topic.
Mike Evans said:
Hi Slopey, Tom's on holiday for a little bit so I'll answer your question.

We do not want players to be able to stock pile resources in their cargo holds and store the ship so that they can wait for an appropriate meta game event to happen where they can capitalise on their exploits.

We want players to have to operate in the moment to moment game play so that when the event occurs that means certain goods become very valuable they have to go and find those goods right then and there to make a good profit not just get their stocked up anaconda from weeks ago out of storage and take advantage without having to do anything special or risky as part of the event.

There is probably nothing anyone could suggest to change our stance on this. Additionally we would be much happier to say we're not going to do this now and then perhaps in future realise we could offer this to the player base than risk the opposite which is to give you all that power and then take it away from you in future.

Thank you Mike Evans. If some of you do not know who Mike Evans is. he is one of the Designer of Elite Dangerous.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

Thank you MickyG1982.
I did like what Mike Evans said in this one topic.
Mike Evans said:
Hi Slopey, Tom's on holiday for a little bit so I'll answer your question.

We do not want players to be able to stock pile resources in their cargo holds and store the ship so that they can wait for an appropriate meta game event to happen where they can capitalise on their exploits.

We want players to have to operate in the moment to moment game play so that when the event occurs that means certain goods become very valuable they have to go and find those goods right then and there to make a good profit not just get their stocked up anaconda from weeks ago out of storage and take advantage without having to do anything special or risky as part of the event.

There is probably nothing anyone could suggest to change our stance on this. Additionally we would be much happier to say we're not going to do this now and then perhaps in future realise we could offer this to the player base than risk the opposite which is to give you all that power and then take it away from you in future.

Thank you Mike Evans. If some of you do not know who Mike Evans is. he is one of the Designer of Elite Dangerous.

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

The suggestion at the moment is not that stored ships should keep their cargo in their holds (that would allow cargo delivery via ship transfer), but rather that stations should provide on-site cargo storage for a daily rate charged on a per cargo quantity basis.

While it's not too different to what Mike stated the design team was opposed to, the daily fee would be a discouraging factor for long-term storage. Moreover, I think that if players are foresighted enough to predict the increase in value of a commodity, and to do the work required to purchase and transport it, and to pay the ongoing storage fees, and take that all on as a risk, then they probably deserve to capitalise on it.

I think the differences in proposed implementations are enough that it warrants re-examination by the developers, and a renewed discussion with them.

 

[LOSBOT]

Stop thinking the game is a stupid MMO where prices are the same. Elite dangerous has a Buying and selling simulation in the background. Sometimes it causes booms sometimes it causes a bust. Why are you asking for an exploit? It because you and others are not using common sense.

Stop thinking of storage as an exploit, especially when suggestions have been given to satisfy the concerns of those who keep claiming this.

Start using common sense when you play a game. You see a mission with a high reward. you accept it. Being that child that does not take the time to read the risk of that mission. Then whine after being attacked and return to base. When need storage because the mission too hard for your trade ship and you need your combat ship. All because of it too hard. Reason why. You did not read the mission.

Who is the fault in this problem? YOU.

If you read some of the old Devs videos and newsletters you would see I am right.

Stop assuming that everything is the fault of those who want storage. It's a ridiculous assumption to make. There are valid reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with your Assumptions that it's the player's fault. I've had mission reward items in my ship that I've had to carry around because I can't store them and I have no immediate plans to use it because I don't want to run off and engineer that day or feel forced to sell but instead go mining. Well, I have to carry that around like some in-game burden.

Nothing to do with a lack of planning. I just don't want to use those mats right now and I want to enjoy a different aspect of the GAME. And yes, it's just a GAME. Lighten up.

 

[60mm]

And yes, it's just a GAME. Lighten up.

BUT MUH BGS!!!

 

[Velixar]

Here what I seeing. A large group of players storing in one station

Stop thinking of storage as an exploit, especially when suggestions have been given to satisfy the concerns of those who keep claiming this.

I can see it as an exploit. I think the only people who don't think it an exploit are the people who want to exploit the game.

 

[yianniv]

Here what I seeing. A large group of players storing in one station
I can see it as an exploit. I think the only people who don't think it an exploit are the people who want to exploit the game.

Just wait for more info on the fleet carriers, especially the mining variety...

 

[Soron Silin]

Here what I seeing. A large group of players storing in one station
I can see it as an exploit. I think the only people who don't think it an exploit are the people who want to exploit the game.

Well you are wrong.
Added to which it is no more an exploit than a group of people sitting in their Type-9s or whatever and waiting until just before the tick before they sell. They can do that right now.
It's not an exploit, because:

1. It doesn't match any definition of the word.
2. You can do the same thing right now.
3. Methods have been proposed to prevent any "damage" to the BGS.

I've just spent several hours harvesting 8 units of arsenic in order to engineer a new ship that I'm outfitting for void opal mining. I don't have the time or inclination to play with your toys.

Let me put it another way. I have absolutely no interest in Power Play:

1. It is broken -- hundreds of players in Solo and PG mean that no player can effectively control what happens in a system.
2. It is nonsense -- it is a political model that can not be affected through politics. There is literally no politics in the game.
3. It is meaningless -- factions are just names; they have no agendas, no manifestos and they are run by people who do not exist in the game.
4. it has no effect -- I don't care who runs a station, a system or any other region of space. It doesn't matter. Nothing changes.
5. It is pointless -- The success or failure of a faction has no effect on the life of an allied commander. He still gets missions and bog-standard trading would still pay better.

I hate the very idea of Powerplay. If I was forced to engage with it I would quit playing the entire game. It would be more entertaining to cut my toe nails.

 

[LOSBOT]

Here what I seeing. A large group of players storing in one station
I can see it as an exploit. I think the only people who don't think it an exploit are the people who want to exploit the game.

We don't all think the way you do. Those that see it as an exploit are probably the ones we should be concerned with?
You're just being closed-minded since various compromises have been suggested and we'd take them, just so we can have a simple feature implemented.
We get it. YOU don't like it. YOU believe it's an exploit. Then don't suggest it but also don't be ridiculously closed-minded either since everyone on this side has suggested ways to address all your concerns.

 

[fu9ar]

LoL. Try harder. LoL. everyone knows it's an exploit. Gold farmers go home.

 

[yianniv]

LoL. Try harder. LoL. everyone knows it's an exploit. Gold farmers go home.

You do realize what will happen in December, don't you?

 

[CAPT. Ho Chi Minge]

LoL. Try harder. LoL. everyone knows it's an exploit. Gold farmers go home.

There are no exploits in elite , or is that grind?... i forget.

 

[Velixar]

LoL. Try harder. LoL. everyone knows it's an exploit. Gold farmers go home.

Epic. rep 1+. I can see it now. I have 1,000 storage cargo plus my Ship cargo. Go on Gold sites and sell them almost 3 Billion worth of cargo.

 

[Soron Silin]

Thank you MickyG1982.
I did like what Mike Evans said in this one topic.
Mike Evans said:
Hi Slopey, Tom's on holiday for a little bit so I'll answer your question.

We do not want players to be able to stock pile resources in their cargo holds and store the ship so that they can wait for an appropriate meta game event to happen where they can capitalise on their exploits.

We want players to have to operate in the moment to moment game play so that when the event occurs that means certain goods become very valuable they have to go and find those goods right then and there to make a good profit not just get their stocked up anaconda from weeks ago out of storage and take advantage without having to do anything special or risky as part of the event.

There is probably nothing anyone could suggest to change our stance on this. Additionally we would be much happier to say we're not going to do this now and then perhaps in future realise we could offer this to the player base than risk the opposite which is to give you all that power and then take it away from you in future.

Thank you Mike Evans. If some of you do not know who Mike Evans is. he is one of the Designer of Elite Dangerous.

Thanks for the quote. The original seems to be on an area of the site I don't have access to. Maybe the devs talk directly to the moderators? It would be sensible to reduce their exposure to the endless arguments. As a forum moderator myself, I do see this in other places -- staff can be more open with people they know they can trust to be discrete and understanding.

As for the content of the post, it seems encouraging to me. He says "perhaps in future realise we could offer this to the player base". At least three years ago it was not something they wanted to offer. A lot has changed since, more is changing in the near future. Fleet carriers will throw this whole issue into sharp focus. If there is still this requirement that cargo moves with the player then we will have a massive ship and still only be able to carry cargo on a single docked ship. If you are mining and pirates attack, you will still not be able to return to the carrier and take off in a combat ship. It will become ridiculous.

There are solutions even to Mike's concerns. Certain cargo, food and medicine for example, will expire after a time. At times of need, stored cargo could be compulsorily purchased at market average prices. It could cost money to store cargo or there could be a tax on it, say 10% is taken every month or week or day. There could be RNG that has cargo stolen or damaged.

And to protect the PP, I would implement a maximum trade deficit so that a station will refuse to buy 1000 tonnes of void opals or gold etc. because they do not have the money to do so.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

Not at all seeing how storage would be an exploit, unless you could shuffle full ships from place to place. They could also make it so the PP commodities cannot be stored

Outside of that, storing commodities and waiting for a good price is a time tested business practice. It would also be nice to store guardian stuff between runs.

 

[LOSBOT]

LoL. Try harder. LoL. everyone knows it's an exploit. Gold farmers go home.

Amazing how you explained it so thoroughly. So how exactly would say, 100 or 200T limit of personal storage that can not be sold in that same station where it's stored or be transferred in ships or restricted by any of the numerous things that can implemented by exploited.

Please enlighten us some more with your wisdom. LMFAO

 

[Stupid_hippy]

Nice job there again OP. Derailing your own thread with sarcastic abuse. Don't you see how no one is going to take you seriously when you reply like a petulant schoolboy? lol