I love E:D But really?

galahad2069

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Koma Pahu said:
I mean, if it’s P2W in any real sense - not just on a technicality that doesn’t materially affect the majority of the player base - then the ARX ship will be better than the ship you buy with credits. No?

Kinda looks to me like you’re paying for early access. Which, IIRC, is what they sell it as.

All the example you give shows is it’s good at taking out Cutters. The Cutters is going to get mashed by any number of PvP builds, it’s just the inevitable destruction is a little quicker.

It’s a bit like saying a .308 Winchester gives me an advantage over someone using a .270. Both are equally effective at killing a deer in the right hands and you don’t use it against another hunter so it’s kinda a moot point.
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The Python2 is no longer a P2W ship (in Odyssey). It just used to be, for like 3 months.

And no, it has never been the big kill-all meta. It was (is) just the best ship in some specific roles. Being the fastest at killing Cutters means just that.
 

galahad2069

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Rat Catcher said:
But does illustrate, quite nicely, that the ship really doesn't matter, pilot skill does, doesn't it? Regardless of what they are flying...
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That depends on the skill gap between the 2 people in question. Sometimes the better player will kill the weaker one regardless of the ships they use. But if the skill gap is not so large, maybe they will win 100% of the time in mirrored builds, but you can beat them when you are flying the meta while they are not.
 

galahad2069

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Koma Pahu said:
If the P2 for ARX was P2W, then surely it still is as it’s still available for ARX. So therefore we get to say “I won anyway”.
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The ARX version still offers some tiny benefit (0 rebuy) over the one you can buy for credits, so it is still a bit P2W, it's just way less significant now.
 

Pville_Piper

Pville_Piper
galahad2069 said:
Having to be the best in each and every role you can imagine is not part of any kind of a definition of P2W.
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🤔 Now you're not making any sense... If I was playing an FPS, and I bought an LMG with less jitter, a bigger magazine and a faster rate of fire, I would dominate the middle range game. I still could be killed by a sniper at long range and a sub machine gun or shotgun at short ranges. But I would dominate as long as I played to the guns strengths. That is the definition of pay to win if there was no gun in the game that could be acquired without money that could match it.

It also would be pay to win if players were grouped according to time in game or some kind experience level and I bought a gun that no one in my class could get a hold of without buying. The effect would be mitigated over time as others gained levels ect. But that would not change the fact that it was pay to win.

In free to play games they often allow you to get items if you play a lot buy allow you to aquire the credits purchase the items for in game money, which is what I did when I bought the Python 2. That can still be considered pay to win, the only difference is that you get to keep the ship in Elite whereas most others it would be a rental for a limited time.

I never liked the FDL, it was just a combat ship with an off centered seat and some weird canopy line blocking the view. But it was the meta for a long time and some still prefer it over the P2.

I prefer the P2 because it has a centered seat and better super cruise boost handling, but neither of those make it competitively better, just more pleasing to use.
 

galahad2069

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Pville_Piper said:
🤔 Now you're not making any sense... If I was playing an FPS, and I bought an LMG with less jitter, a bigger magazine and a faster rate of fire, I would dominate the middle range game. I still could be killed by a sniper at long range and a sub machine gun or shotgun at short ranges. But I would dominate as long as I played to the guns strengths. That is the definition of pay to win if there was no gun in the game that could be acquired without money that could match it.

It also would be pay to win if players were grouped according to time in game or some kind experience level and I bought a gun that no one in my class could get a hold of without buying. The effect would be mitigated over time as others gained levels ect. But that would not change the fact that it was pay to win.

In free to play games they often allow you to get items if you play a lot buy allow you to aquire the credits purchase the items for in game money, which is what I did when I bought the Python 2. That can still be considered pay to win, the only difference is that you get to keep the ship in Elite whereas most others it would be a rental for a limited time.

I never liked the FDL, it was just a combat ship with an off centered seat and some weird canopy line blocking the view. But it was the meta for a long time and some still prefer it over the P2.

I prefer the P2 because it has a centered seat and better super cruise boost handling, but neither of those make it competitively better, just more pleasing to use.
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The P2 also has Anaconda level of dps (4 pacifiers plus feedback rails) in a medium ship. That's exactly what it makes it best at killing big ships. That's its main niche.

Its shield is approximately the same as that of the FDL, but the hull is a bit weaker, the hitbox is a bit larger and the flight model of the FDL is slightly better, which is why it's still the best choice in wingfights.

The 2 ships are pretty close overall, but they are not entirely interchangeable, both of them have their strength and (relative) weaknesses that determine the roles they are best at. And there definitely is a role in which the Python2 is superior, so while it was still an ARX only ship, it was literally impossible to say it wasn't P2W, even by your narrow definition.
 

GJ51

GJ51
GraXXoR said:
Another?

Hey, I'm just seeing it as it is, as someone who followed since the Kickstarter and came back a few months ago....
I don't read the forums.... Are you saying I should have researched the forums and melded my opinion with the group before stating my opinion?

Could well be a reason why you are tired of seeing "P2W" threads...
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Would you rather FD just close down due to lack of funding?
 

GJ51

GJ51
GraXXoR said:
I'm unconvinced that the new ships are significantly better.

Hmmm ok. Starts off promising.

I've bought a T8 because it's a great hauler for a medium pad

lol.

The fact that they are creating cash ships that are statswide way and ahead of prior ships to the point of basically including their existence is kind of sad.

At least do something to give the earlier ships at least presence of relevance.

The T7 design had a mistake where it was 50cm too tall for the medium pads in the Beta and clipped through the hangar roof. so they just deleted its ability to land on M pads instead of spending a few man hours to reduce its height.

But now suddenly they have a T8 that CAN land on M pads and strangely has better everything than a Large ship.

If ships don’t have a niche, why bother existing?
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I own every ship

The new ships are nice, but not gamechangers

The Corsair feels to me like a Clipper with more cargo space and a couple extra hard points - weak shields and only 4 utility slots make it difficult for me to find a niche for it.

T-8 - most cargo space for medium pad hauling - and when do we need med pad hauling... ?

Cobra V - Best small pad ship without any doubt

Hauling cargo/trading - Cutter still the best

Medium ship - Neither the Corsair or the T-8 outperform a nicely engineered Python to make me want to sell mine. Hadn't thought of it before but maybe the Corsair could be better for Robigo run Passenger Missions ???

Mandaly - Nice explorer but not significantly better than what's been available, but a welcome addition.

Overall I like the new ships and I hope the new funding helps to keep ED alive for a long time as I don't see anything else I'd move to in this genre.

And - bottom line - no one is forced to buy anything...

Support the game or don't - but don't worry about complaining here if ED is terminated - it'll be a moot point

YMMV

EDIT: Forgot the P2 - yeah, it's a beast. Would love to hear from the PvP community re P2 v FDL
 
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Darrack

Darrack
Rat Catcher said:
I'm sure that would make some of our 'regulars' ecstatic!
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sgqESGQ.jpg


O7
 

Pville_Piper

Pville_Piper
Rat Catcher said:
I'm sure that would make some of our 'regulars' ecstatic!
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Only if the forums are left to run so they can voice their opinions...
galahad2069 said:
The P2 also has Anaconda level of dps (4 pacifiers plus feedback rails) in a medium ship. That's exactly what it makes it best at killing big ships. That's its main niche.

Its shield is approximately the same as that of the FDL, but the hull is a bit weaker, the hitbox is a bit larger and the flight model of the FDL is slightly better, which is why it's still the best choice in wingfights.

The 2 ships are pretty close overall, but they are not entirely interchangeable, both of them have their strength and (relative) weaknesses that determine the roles they are best at. And there definitely is a role in which the Python2 is superior, so while it was still an ARX only ship, it was literally impossible to say it wasn't P2W, even by your narrow definition.
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By a strick definition, it's pay to win, but pilot skill will be be much more of a factor, some nube isn't being given God mode much less an average player. There is an advantage, but it is insignificant.

In the case of the cutter, you can't technically beat one, much less kill one because you can't mass lock it or otherwise prevent its escape if your opponent is any kind of pilot. If you judge winning solely on the criteria of destroying the ship.
 
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