I think I know where Salvation is...?

Dox Paradox

Dox Paradox
Kira Goto said:
My personal take on the idea is more of a “Nemesis is an exact copy of Salvation” than it being a ‘mind transfer’ type of deal.
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Cloning the flesh takes a lot longer than downloading when it comes to living beings =)
He could have been digitalised and his mind printed on an IC.
Then you just have to plug Salvation wherever you need him, just need a spare class 1 utility slot !
 

EdzUp

EdzUp
You dont actually know if the person on Salvation's presentation is actually the man himself, heck these days we can put dead actors into Star wars films so who knows what we are capable of in 3307 🤔
 

Kira Goto

Kira Goto
Dox Paradox said:
Cloning the flesh takes a lot longer than downloading when it comes to living beings =)
He could have been digitalised and his mind printed on an IC.
Then you just have to plug Salvation wherever you need him, just need a spare class 1 utility slot !
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I didn’t mean a clone. Nemesis sounds less like “Machine that holds a human consciousness in the event of death” and more like “Machine that precisely emulates what he was with exact memories and personality”.

In the end, it’s really semantics since it’s Salvation, but it is how I interpret this part of what we were told about it.

“[…] The design showed neural interactions as digital impulses, and made reference to exactly retaining his identity and memories.”
 

Shabine

Shabine
Kira Goto said:
I didn’t mean a clone. Nemesis sounds less like “Machine that holds a human consciousness in the event of death” and more like “Machine that precisely emulates what he was with exact memories and personality”.
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See, I like to think that Salvation now resembles this fine gentleman right here...

Resident Evil World : zombooyah2thesequel: RESIDENT EVIL: APOCALYPSE...


Resident Evil jokes aside, there's a whole debate about whether a machine can, in fact, contain a consciousness. A copy of a neural network is one thing, but an actual continuation of an organic consciousness is something else entirely.

Cyberpunk 2077's story revolves around this debate, and the various endings to that particular story all lead to the same metaphorical Rome; an engram (digital copy of a person's mind) is not a continuation of consciousness and can't be for one simple reason: any digitized neural network can be copied an infinite number of times. If human consciousness was in fact present in any digitized neural network and that network was copied, say, 100 times... which of those copies is a continuation of the organic consciousness? The answer is none, because they are all just digital copies, and all organic consciousness is terminal.

It's a fascinating subject.
 

Shabine

Shabine
DemiserofD said:
Should a copy of Salvation even be held responsible for his crimes? The real salvation died, after all.
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What would be the point? If Salvation is indeed now just data in the form of a digitized neural network, it isn't a person. You couldn't put it on trial. You could only contain it or delete it since it would be little more than a collection of binary functions that lack a physical form.
 

Kira Goto

Kira Goto
Shabine said:
A copy of a neural network is one thing, but an actual continuation of an organic consciousness is something else entirely.
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I don’t really think we’re dealing with so much a continuation of the Salvation that died in HIP 22460, as a copy that for all intents and purposes is him, without really being him. Certainly not in physical form… and it just inherited the memories and personality.

Going to repeat, Salvation as an AI is scary. If the biological one already had as little issues with laws and ethics as he did while being a manipulative mastermind, I don’t want to know what an AI counterpart/replica of the real thing can do. It’s not like they used a person with actual morals, ethics and who actually cares for humanity as the template for this construct.

Come to think of it, a lot of the alleged criticisms Azimuth has of Seo could just as well be applied to Salvation.

Also, in regards to the other point - we might not be able to put him on trial, but there is Azimuth leadership complicit in his activities…
 

Kira Goto

Kira Goto
Shabine said:
No can do. My entire build relies on them. Shields, FSD boost, power plant - the whole kaboodle. Once you go Guardian, you don't go back. This is the way. <insert other stuff here>. Etcetera.
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I’m the opposite, I eventually started to gravitate away from them. Part of that is RP since my character wouldn’t have gotten stuck with a dead powerplant in HIP 22460 otherwise… or at least had better chances without the Guardian powerplant.

The other is that I didn’t like how the shield reinforcements suck up power and can’t be assigned a priority. Of course it usually isn’t necessary when playing PvE but I prefer to err on the safe side now in that regard.

I also don’t think having Guardian tech on your ship is very fun if say, the Constructs show up and decide that all of that tech of theirs on your ship is free real estate for an impromptu shutdown… but I don’t feel like dropping my FSD booster.
 

Shabine

Shabine
Kira Goto said:
The other is that I didn’t like how the shield reinforcements suck up power and can’t be assigned a priority. Of course it usually isn’t necessary when playing PvE but I prefer to err on the safe side now in that regard.
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I find them to be the only way to push shield strength up to a number that I'm happy with. On shield tanking builds, they're indispensable.

Kira Goto said:
I also don’t think having Guardian tech on your ship is very fun if say, the Constructs show up and decide that all of that tech of theirs on your ship is free real estate for an impromptu shutdown… but I don’t feel like dropping my FSD booster.
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Alternatively, if they detect Guardian tech, there's a chance they'll think I'm one of them and toddle off. Or better yet, maybe I can sail along with them like a person covered in zombie guts wandering around with a pack of zombies who don't notice that they're there.

And yes, I did get this idea from The Walking Dead thank you very much.
 

Kira Goto

Kira Goto
Shabine said:
Alternatively, if they detect Guardian tech, there's a chance they'll think I'm one of them and toddle off.
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Mh, I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Unless they’re dumb like the geth in the aspect of not using external cameras on their ships, they’ll probably just be able to see you’re not very Guardian-ish. Plus it’s hybrid stuff, not a complete, unaltered piece of Guardian tech thrown into it. (Which would probably also be a lot better than our reverse-engineered stuff, compatibility issues aside.)

I wouldn’t take the risk, personally.

Shabine said:
On shield tanking builds, they're indispensable.
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My Corvette with only shield boosters for utilities and a prism engineered for thermal resistance(could also be reinforced, only really matters for plasma accelerators in the end) would argue with that. It still easily has over 10k effective strength for all damage types and another 10k effective hull underneath. Plus two size 7 shield cell banks for some extra.

I won’t judge anyone for using the Guardian shield reinforcement, but in my opinion, they aren’t all that worth it.
 

simulacrae

simulacrae
DemiserofD said:
Should a copy of Salvation even be held responsible for his crimes? The real salvation died, after all.
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“Thoughtcrime, they called it. Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be concealed forever. You might dodge successfully for a while, even for years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you.”
 
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