I wanna ask a huge favor of the game devs for the nonbinary community

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Sasha Terra

S
Gully_Foyle said:
I love facts:
“

The Six Most Common Karyotypes​

The six biological karyotype sexes that do not result in death to the fetus are:

  • X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner’s )
  • XX – Most common form of female
  • XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter)
  • XY – Most common form of male
  • XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people
  • XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births
When you consider that there are 7,000,000,000 alive on the planet, there are almost assuredly tens of millions of people who are not male or female. Many times, these people are unaware of their true sex. It’s interesting to note that everyone assumes that they, personally, are XY or XX. One study in Great Britain showed that 97 out of 100 people who were XYY had no idea. They thought they were a traditional male and had few signs otherwise.”

The 6 Most Common Biological Sexes in Humans

Humans have six different biological sexes, with XX and XY being the two most common.
www.joshuakennon.com www.joshuakennon.com
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Thank you for this.

It's important to note that non-binary and intersex are different concepts - many people who are intersex have binary genders, and many non-binary people have no idea what their karyotype is. But the issue of intersex conditions well demonstrates that these apparent binaries are in fact complex bimodal distributions instead.
 
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Gully Foyle

Gully Foyle
Sasha Terra said:
You have no idea the level of aggression people get for being openly trans or non-binary on Twitter. I really appreciate the solidarity of cis people making small construcive gestures like the one that you're discussing here. There is no unified 'Twitter mob' (thank God), but there sure are some groups out there who think that using social media for mob 'justice' is the way to go, and trans people are mostly the victims, not the perpetrators of such attacks. I know of business that have been destroyed by it.
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As have I in Toronto. Allies stop the fear and ignorance with education and example
 

Gully Foyle

Gully Foyle
Sasha Terra said:
No reason they couldn't make a bunch of other fun decals free too. Having only pride ones, while it could be seen as a valid form of affirmative action, would probably lead to hurt feelings of the sort you describe.
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We need the slash A 4 anarchy flag, a 🏴 for the nihilists gum chewers and a tie dye Freak flag for us old but still space trucking’ HIPPIES
Rainbow flag 🏳️‍🌈 is easy peasey
 
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Gully Foyle

Gully Foyle
Sasha Terra said:
Thank you for this.

It's important to note that non-binary and intersex are different concepts - many people who are intersex have binary genders, and many non-binary people have no idea what their karyotype is. But the issue of intersex conditions well demonstrates that these apparent binaries are in fact complex bimodal distributions instead.
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What kills me is when other people think it’s all made up in their heads

or some god disapprove
 

Gully Foyle

Gully Foyle
uberx24 said:
Honestly, what Sasha Terra suggested is a great idea and I'd take that over my current suggestion. I didnt mean to start an issue in the forums as the goal was more subtly inform people that I am not a "sir." I also wanna appreciate those those who took this as an opportunity to teach people about being nonbinary as well.
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You deserve to be addressed as wanted in Discord and chat Cmdr. This is a good discussion to have ✌️☮️
 

Ashnak

Ashnak
Sasha Terra said:
...that these apparent binaries are in fact complex bimodal distributions instead.
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Only if you're limited to one-dimensional thought. IMnotsoHO, you'll need at the very least two dimensions, and probably some form of Hilbert space, do the issue real justice. One problem may be that most of the people talking about or even researching this issue have never heard of Hilbert space, and most people who are used to work within Hilbert space don't care much about human biology/psychology.

In my language, your six karyotypes could be used to span a 6-dimensional vector space. And this physiological vector space would then need to be multiplied with the (a?) psychological vector space of a (for me) unknown dimensionality.
 

Vetinari

V
He/She exist in GalNet as other people have mentioned. I just assumed they identified as male or female but have wondered whether any non-binary would ever make an appearance.

Jupiters husband, hmmm, why didnt they keep the kids? Why did they go to the grandparents?

OP - I think what your asking for is more than that though, a kind of 'about me' somewhere to save time explaining the same thing over and over and never being sure what the outcome will be. Its not in game, or not on PC anyway, on XB & PS you can write a profile on your acct but its still not in game. Can be done on Inara too if that helps. Obviously this post has helped :) Im not sure where it would go or how it would appear though?

The only way you can announce it in game is through your Cmdr name or your ships name, or start your own Squadron / pmf which is probably too 'political' for what you trying to achieve.
 

Deleted member 38366

D
I don't know....

To me, the most notable difference between XX/XY people (to keep things neutral) and the "non-binary" is : they apparently have to tell the entire world about their sex (perceived or actual, doesn't matter) or their thoughts about it.

Might be a cultural thing - but I can't recall ever engaging in conversation with strangers... and amongst the first subjects being sex, gender or associated preferences.
That's not how I'd approach strangers, nor would I ever paint "I'm male and wish my gender to be noticed as such by everybody!" on my car for example.
Or put any related decal on any of my Ships for that matter.
(those times should be over since the dark ages of AOL chatrooms, i.e cue age/sex checks)

One of the brilliant things ELITE gets right is that gender is a non-issue.
And looking back at the history of gender-related issues.... NOT having that spotlight focus on "being different" should be welcome.
But instead... it seems some folks (not pointing fingers at OP in that respect) insist on being "special" and putting even extra emphasis on an unimportant detail like "what sex/gender is the person behind the controls of a Computer Game Avatar".

Seems extremely counterproductive to me and there's absolutely no need to focus so tightly on something that's so irrelevant around here.
(next thing you know the Federation/Empire Ranks are being discussed again for not representing the (too many letters of the Alphabet to remember) group of "overly gender-focused" individuals)

IMHO :
  • a Commander here is simply that - a CMDR. Doesn't matter who's behind the Controls. For all I care you could be a winged and tailed, blue-haired and egg-laying species from Beta Phoenicis playing via a piggybacked hacked relay of the ISS. Even then, you'd still be a CMDR. Period.
  • overly focus on (gameplay-)irrelevant personal Details is of no benefit to anyone and typically rather counterproductive... if anything it'd cause a crazed "gender frenzy" that never resulted in anything good. IMHO we don't need that here, it'd just open a can of worms (Pandora's Box) and still be massively Off-Topic to ELITE.
  • if your gender (or any other personal details) is a significant issue for you, this Forum or a Computer Game generally aren't the right places to address that issue
  • if in doubt... stick with the unofficial 11th Commandment "Thou shalt keep thy gender to thyself". Can't ever go wrong with that....
 
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uberx24

U
Chrystoph said:
Personally, I think you're trying to do the Mayor's Hat. You came on to the forums demanding change, and the change you want goes from a perfectly workable system to one that you could point at and say, I got them to do this.

As to "Meaningless argument about languages", pronouns are not about gender identity, they are about gender, which is your secondary sexual characteristics, not how you perceive yourself, and quantity. He refers to a singular individual with male secondary characteristics. They, while gender neutral, refers to more than one person.

Communication is founded on language, and language is founded on common definitions. If you want singular and gender neutral, stop your entitled corrupting of the language and use, "It". That is the appropriate pronoun for an singular neutral.

Regardless, take the hat off of the stick, and stop trying to get people to salute it.
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Half of this has nothing to do with what I was suggesting. I just was suggesting that pronouns be presented, optionally at least. I then conceded my point for a much better option that works better for the game. I made no demands, and this argument over language is meaningless because it has little to do with the idea of adding pronouns or giving representation.
 

Vetinari

V
Starshot_Jigawatts said:
I know of no other interactions where we're asked and demanded to deny plain reality. That's probably the "pushback" in this.
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Your reality which includes your prejudice, confirmation bias and assumptions? Or the other persons reality which is more open minded?

Chrystoph said:
They, while gender neutral, refers to more than one person.
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Did you see the person who attacked you?
No but they ran off in that direction. I saw them jump over that fence then I lost sight of them.

Its common language for singular and plural. Get over it.
 

Gully Foyle

Gully Foyle
Ashnak said:
Well, it is all made up in our heads. All of it.

And if you want to disapproe of something, you can always find a god. They're quite versatile that way, especially with regard to other people.
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Our various shared genetic backgrounds are not invented in heads.

The 6 viable human genetic karotypes are real. The differences are subtle but no less important then the first two we knew about.
www.scientificamerican.com

Sex Redefined: The Idea of 2 Sexes Is Overly Simplistic

Biologists now think there is a larger spectrum than just binary female and male
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com

Gods are not found but created is a another thread.
 

Ashnak

Ashnak
FalconFly said:
a Commander here is simply that - a CMDR. Doesn't matter who's behind the Controls. For all I care you could be a winged and tailed, blue-haired and egg-laying species from Beta Phoenicis playing via a piggybacked hacked relay of the ISS. Even then, you'd still be a CMDR. Period.
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Now that you're talking of it...
  • one of my CMDRs is a formerly high ranking Orc marine. His approach to gender is... not suitable for this forum. If you want to know more, read Mary Gentle's Grunts.
  • the other is a demon (yes, from hell). Banished (or rather, forgotten and left to rot - and kind of glad about it, considering what is likely to happen should he ever return) to the earthly plane sometime around the dark ages due to some colossal bureaucratic mess-up.

And you know what? In ED, nobody cares. They can fly (and soon walk) around, do what they like to do - kill people, mess up economies, incite wars, deliver medicines - and nobody cares which shape, colour or creed they are. As long as they can fly a spaceship and stand their round at the bar, nobody makes a comment about one of them beeing a bit green not only behind the ears, or the other wearing dark glasses and smoking slightly all the time.
 
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