I wanna ask a huge favor of the game devs for the nonbinary community

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.

d8veh

d8veh
Why do we want to divide by gender or pronoun preference? Why not by importance, hair colour, height, intelligence, fatness, wealth, wit, strength, knitting ability or anything else. I'd prefer my pronoun to be " The Almighty" D8veh rather than CMDR and I feel offended when people don't use it in the chat. It's very demeaning. Please, devs, can you sort it? While you're at it, I need this decal for my ship, which will help everybody know how to adress me as well:
the-design-of-the-coin-with-the-inscription-god-flat-logo-vector-id1079497740
 

Chrystoph

Chrystoph
Since I am upsetting my Significant Other with my vocal expressions on the topic, and I value her good will, this is my last post.

I'll point out that most people view themselves as a blend of masculine and feminine traits. The problem with this sort of thing is agreeing on what a specific trait qualifies as (example below).

Nurture - Care for and encourage the growth or development of. (Masculine or Feminine?)

Physicians (note the gender neutral title) are normally considered nurturing in their efforts to preserve and, when possible, improve life. Mothers are traditionally considered nurturing, but fathers are traditionally not. You now have conflicting definitions based on gender.

In whatever way you identify yourself, for getting other people to agree with you, communication is the key. If the definitions are not agreed upon, there can be no communication.

The original post demands changes without expressing what they want fixed (not the implementation of gender specific pronouns, but the inclusion of Gender Identity, however it is defined), therefore this entire provocative discussion is about nothing concrete except a demand to force the majority to concede to a change of behavior, "because I said so".

Bluntly, in this specific case, this is a solution looking for a problem.
 

Vedmo

Vedmo
Lorenzo Waringos said:
It was perhaps the wrong one to choose, apologies.
Click to expand...
I hesitated greatly to even comment, as I don't really want to come across as defending that person. No doubt there are many, many others that would have been safe choices!

Was really just trying to point out broad dismissal through labeling isn't monopolized by any group. I'm certainly guilty at times myself.
 
Last edited:

Starshot_Jigawatts

S
Ethaidan said:
That is grossly inaccurate. Perhaps you should update your information before spewing misinformation to support your opinion.

In the most recent large scale poll on gender identity (across all 623 constituencies in advance of the 2019 general election). There was a single, quite revealing question about gender:

"Is it acceptable for adolescent children to make their own decisions about their gender identity?"

9% strongly agreed
28% mildly agreed
33% meh
18% mildly disagreed
12% strongly dissgreed
Click to expand...

Oh please, show me a poll and I"ll show you where people were given nonsense questions like that that do not really cut to the heart of an issue or provide a real-world consequence of that answer.

It's like asking people if they support tax cuts: Sure, most everyone will say yes. It's a nice fluffy cost-free notion easy to agree with., Ask them what public goods/services shall be cancelled to achieve those tax cuts, you'll get zero agreement if in fact any approval for the idea at all.

That question doesn't address where the rubber actually meets the road, at all. And I'll say nothing more about it.
 
Last edited:

Screemonster

Screemonster
"cmdr" isn't your pronoun in-game, it's your title.

As far as I'm aware, the only pronoun that is used in-game to refer to the player is "you". I don't think any of the NPCs address you or refer to you in anything other than the second-person.

As for a way to display it in chat... like, in system chat? Where would you display that information? It'd be kinda in the way to have a "he/him" "she/her" "they/them" accompanying every message, and if it's in a profile or something that you have to select the person's message in chat to see it then that's not a thing I can see myself making a habit of checking in the middle of combat. (Besides, if I'm about to demand your stuff, the message I'm going be sending is going to be a second-person imperative)
 
Last edited:

uberx24

U
Chrystoph said:
Since I am upsetting my Significant Other with my vocal expressions on the topic, and I value her good will, this is my last post.

I'll point out that most people view themselves as a blend of masculine and feminine traits. The problem with this sort of thing is agreeing on what a specific trait qualifies as (example below).

Nurture - Care for and encourage the growth or development of. (Masculine or Feminine?)

Physicians (note the gender neutral title) are normally considered nurturing in their efforts to preserve and, when possible, improve life. Mothers are traditionally considered nurturing, but fathers are traditionally not. You now have conflicting definitions based on gender.

In whatever way you identify yourself, for getting other people to agree with you, communication is the key. If the definitions are not agreed upon, there can be no communication.

The original post demands changes without expressing what they want fixed (not the implementation of gender specific pronouns, but the inclusion of Gender Identity, however it is defined), therefore this entire provocative discussion is about nothing concrete except a demand to force the majority to concede to a change of behavior, "because I said so".

Bluntly, in this specific case, this is a solution looking for a problem.
Click to expand...
Demand change doesnt include conceding to other's ideas. If nothing came of this post then that've been that.
 

Vetinari

V
I actually got the distinction between gay frogs conspiracy and the real fact that there were chemicals in the water affecting the frogs. I thought that was the point, hysteria instead of the facts? I forgot that some people wont know the real facts bit and believe the other bit are the facts.

uberx24 said:
Edit: to properly answer the question it will hopefully be changed to Cmdr uberx24 (they/them)
Click to expand...

Is that it!? Thats all you are asking for!? You are the worst blackmailer or 'demander' or whatever ever! Some 5th Columnist you are! ;)
 

Kaocraft

Kaocraft
Best option is probably rename your account/CMDR to affix "they/them" to the end of the name, if that's something you want to broadcast at all times. Or you could add it to your ship name or ship ID if you don't want to go through the hassle of renaming your CMDR (I think you have to contact Frontier directly to change your CMDR name).
 

uberx24

U
Kaocraft said:
Best option is probably rename your account/CMDR to affix "they/them" to the end of the name, if that's something you want to broadcast at all times. Or you could add it to your ship name or ship ID if you don't want to go through the hassle of renaming your CMDR (I think you have to contact Frontier directly to change your CMDR name).
Click to expand...
I already requested the name change
 

gorankar

gorankar
Do people even use pronouns in chat? Usually when referencing other players it is by the cmdr's name, or some shortening of said name, or inserting some sort of vulgarity or pejorative before, after, or sometimes inside that name. Thick enough skinned to deal with chat, but terrified someone that has never seen you, never spoken to you, has no clue who you are, likely will never interact with you again, might, in ignorance lacking malice, use the wrong pronoun? Way to live up to a stereotype.

This is problem seeking where there is nothing. Another one Fdev will be better off just ignoring, since those effected are unlikely to find whatever they do adequate or proper. Handling name changes on a case by case basis through support is likely the best way for them to address this request or suggestion. And adding your preferred pronouns to your Cmdr name is likely the best way for people that feel they are something other to handle this particular want.

I would like to know where this ends?
What sort of concessions should Fdev make for Antivaxxers, flat earthers, various religious groups, furries, PowerPlay fanatics, and whatever else comes along?
 
Last edited:

Decksmeck

D
uberx24 said:
Is there any way we can display our pronouns, and if so can we have that option eventually implemented? I feel bad sometimes saying in chat that I don't identify as a girl/guy and inform people that I use they/them as I worry people will see me as being too aggressive about my identity or something (I try to be polite about it).
Click to expand...

I don't mind using anyone's pronoun preference but they do need to be prominently displayed so that I can read them off when I address you or refer to you. I can't promise to remember each person's individual set.
 

gorankar

gorankar
Vedmo said:
That was actually referring to UC Berkley studies about pesticides biologically changing the reproductive organs of male frogs to the point they could lay eggs. I live in a rural area and drink well water. I would at least be concerned to the point of wanting more info if those pesticides were in my water.

I won't argue the delivery was not sensationalized or defend the person in general, but "they" are most certainly being reckless in polluting our environment with chemicals (hormones in things we eat as well) that could have undesirable consequences for humans. It's a shame some of the loudest voices are fringe nut jobs, as more conventional and respected voices would do better in raising broader awareness and more importantly action. Instead though, we can just classify it as conspiracy realm and dismiss it rather than say I hate this stuff about being decent to other humans and not letting chemicals run into waterways.
Click to expand...
This makes me a little sick, but well, the reason no one pays attention to the level headed people, is because the nut jobs are more entertaining. News as entertainment rather than as a means to educate oneself regarding current events is a rather insidious enemy to rational thought. It circles back on itself and pushes only the most entertaining or enraging things to the surface, drowning what's real.
 

theBreadSultan

T
Ethaidan said:
That is grossly inaccurate. Perhaps you should update your information before spewing misinformation to support your opinion.

In the most recent large scale poll on gender identity (across all 623 constituencies in advance of the 2019 general election). There was a single, quite revealing question about gender:

"Is it acceptable for adolescent children to make their own decisions about their gender identity?"

9% strongly agreed
28% mildly agreed
33% meh
18% mildly disagreed
12% strongly dissgreed

Attitudes towards gender & gender identity have changed quite significantly in the past decade. Taking into account that this survey only had access to those of voting age, the shift in the next ten years should be even more marked.

And then (again) we'll here lots of people retrofitting their personal history to claim they were always in support of trans/non-binary rights.
Click to expand...

Sure.. Quite poll results without any information about the poll. But I've found it based on the question to be a poll conducted by the website Unherd.

An organisation that's not a member of the market research society - and the results are from an online poll.

So they are basically worthless. The question itself is no doubt purposefully vague also.

Yet still 91% of people are not fully supportive of the statement.

I have received a warning for engaging in political discussions. But of course you won't hear me crying about 'muh oppression'. I'm sure all the people arguing pro putting pronouns in a spaceship game received the same warnings...

I'm sure you received one too.

In reference to OP I will say again.
Politics has no place in Elite. Either we open it up to ALL politics or we keep it limited to none.

I would have no issue with opening it up to all, but that's not what is being asked, that's not what's ever asked, and probably because for all the talk that "people should be tolerant of other views", the people that ask for these things would be the first to report and screech if they came into contact with something that went against their view point.

Like I said before... Before you ask for something, consider if you would be OK if the people diametrically opposed to you would get the same.

So, would you be OK with having they/them xe/xir tags, that everyone would see, if others could have O2G (only 2 genders) or BGO (birth gender only) tags? I'm guessing no...

Which is why politics should stay out if games
 
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom